Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster building: "I need a White Russian"

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to see in individuals who have proven themselves to be who they are over and over again without fail. It speaks to suiting preexisting narratives, to me. And I really, really DON'T think people change that much, especially that fast. But I guess we'll see.

Like I said I think it's just an old windbag who can't keep his mouth shut deflecting blame and protecting his wounded ego by blabbing to the media like an irresponsible little child. I don't think there is a real plan here. And I don't think Malkin is this like... secret problem child who has just somehow kept everyone in the dark for 13 years. That's crazy town jet fuel/steel beams shit. So I'll kinda wait and see where it goes.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to see in individuals who have proven themselves to be who they are over and over again without fail. It speaks to suiting preexisting narratives, to me. And I really, really DON'T think people change that much, especially that fast. But I guess we'll see.

Are we talking JR or Malkin here?

Because JR should be fired, full-stop. He is not a good GM anymore.

But at the same time, Malkin's last season should be extremely concerning to a team trying to compete for a title. Our results when he was on the ice weren't nearly good enough. Yeah he put up some points and yes Kessel/JJ/Maatta are subpar ES players, but Malkin played at a lower level than he ever has before. At least he acknowledges how badly he played, those quotes were very heartening.

Put separately, when talking Malkin/Trocheck or whatever...after 2017-2018 you'd say Malkin was a lot closer to Sid/McDavid than a Trocheck. After last season, I expect him to be something like a league-average 1C moving forward.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Are we talking JR or Malkin here?

Because JR should be fired, full-stop. He is not a good GM anymore.

I'm talking about both.

People are attaching characteristics to both individuals that they have shown no pattern of in the past. Malkin as this discontented coach killer and JR as competent.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm talking about both.

People are attaching characteristics to both individuals that they have shown no pattern of in the past. Malkin as this discontented coach killer and JR as competent.

I despise the character questions on Geno, I'm with you on that. But I have real questions about his quality on the ice and whether he's a top-5 center anymore or closer to the 15-25 range.

...And he's my favorite player.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to see in individuals who have proven themselves to be who they are over and over again without fail. It speaks to suiting preexisting narratives, to me. And I really, really DON'T think people change that much, especially that fast. But I guess we'll see.

Like I said I think it's just an old windbag who can't keep his mouth shut deflecting blame and protecting his wounded ego by blabbing to the media like an irresponsible little child. I don't think there is a real plan here. And I don't think Malkin is this like... secret problem child who has just somehow kept everyone in the dark for 13 years. That's crazy town jet fuel/steel beams ****. So I'll kinda wait and see where it goes.

That would make Lemieux and Burkle incompetent owners though.

I could see if JR said this off the cuff once, but three times in like a 7-10 day span without Lemieux or Burkle stepping in?

Why would they sit back and let a supposed crazy man threaten the org relationship with Malkin if there was nothing to what he’s saying?

No one is giving me an answer to that...

 

[Peat]

Jiggyfly just beat me to it. Rutherford should be fired already if this is all off-piste. He's not. Maybe that happens tomorrow and that's our answer but until then, there's a big hole in the narrative.

Have to raise an eyebrow too at the idea that a GM with Rutherford's resume is just straight up not competent to the point he's more or less automatically wrong. I want him gone but seems pretty excessive.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If Malkin is a top 15ish center at 33 is that really so bad? I'm not handwaving away slipping production and defensive deficiencies/need to change his game as he ages. But I think you can still win with the right cast around he, Crosby and Letang. And personally I think this past year isn't indicative of what Malkin can do the next two to three seasons. Though obviously that's speculation/hope.

As for Mario and co. stepping up to defend Malkin or whatever... that's kind of a tough one. They have never been the type to directly meddle and certainly not the type to go to the media unless it's a huge shakeup. I think it's clear that they want to give JR and Sully at least another shake so they can't really come out against what their GM is blabbing about. And Malkin has taken a very measured and even-keeled approach on his part (he understands JR is very emotional and prone to spout off and has only said the right things about how he needs to improve) so... they probably see it much as I do -- more than a little silly but not worth getting into a shooting war over.

I'm not even saying you guys are providing a bad take on this. I just think it's much more straightforward. JR is doing JR stuff and Malkin needs to step up next season and he knows this. All the rest is just unneeded drama. I just get a little frustrated that everyone is so ready to jump on board JR's take (and even run with it) when he just got done saying stuff like "this is the best defense we've assembled here."

 

[Gurglesons]

Jiggyfly just beat me to it. Rutherford should be fired already if this is all off-piste. He's not. Maybe that happens tomorrow and that's our answer but until then, there's a big hole in the narrative.

Have to raise an eyebrow too at the idea that a GM with Rutherford's resume is just straight up not competent to the point he's more or less automatically wrong. I want him gone but seems pretty excessive.

I think Rutherford is a Torts like GM. Has an initial impact, but long term he isn’t a solution.

 

[Andy99]

Jiggyfly just beat me to it. Rutherford should be fired already if this is all off-piste. He's not. Maybe that happens tomorrow and that's our answer but until then, there's a big hole in the narrative.

Have to raise an eyebrow too at the idea that a GM with Rutherford's resume is just straight up not competent to the point he's more or less automatically wrong. I want him gone but seems pretty excessive.

How do you account for not only his signing of Jack Johnson, but then making comments that he knows why JJ was healthy scratched in the POs for CLB and it wasn’t for his play, when his own coach healthy scratched him this year? If that’s not talking off the cuff with limited info in order to make himself look good, it’s certainly incompetent...I lost a ton of respect for JR after that, and his comments after this PO loss attributing the entire loss to the players and not owning his or the coaching staff’s part in it, lost him the remainder of my respect...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not concerned that Poni is tweeting this, I'm concerned that he's just quoting what Caufield said. That's one guy who could be a window into what Lemieux is thinking.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Caufield despises Malkin and has never made any bones about hiding it.

Sounds like fanfiction, to me.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'm not concerned that Poni is tweeting this, I'm concerned that he's just quoting what Caufield said. That's one guy who could be a window into what Lemieux is thinking.

Caufield has been wrong about things before and has been very quick to criticize Malkin in the past (almost to a Madden level). He may be a friend of Mario, but I don't consider him to be as tapped in as people like to believe.

I also think Crosby's opinion will carry far more weight on what happens this offseason, and there's no way that he agrees to a Geno trade.

 

[Andy99]

I'm not concerned that Poni is tweeting this, I'm concerned that he's just quoting what Caufield said. That's one guy who could be a window into what Lemieux is thinking.

Except hockey is not football...they can’t just cut a star with a NMC clause...so again unless Geno said he wants to be traded, there’s no possibility of him being dealt..

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not concerned that Poni is tweeting this, I'm concerned that he's just quoting what Caufield said. That's one guy who could be a window into what Lemieux is thinking.

God. I really hope this is just noise.

Regardless of how I feel about Letang he should be traded 100% before Malkin unless Geno is demanding a trade. And nothing in Malkin’s comments leads me to believe that.

This franchise is built on loyalty. Sid and Malkin deserve a ton of it for what they’ve brought. JR and Sullivan are f***ing mice compared to Sid and Geno.

I’m sorry, but this franchise should have Sid and Malkin steering the ship until the bitter end regardless of performance unless one of them wants out. They are Lemieux and Jagr with even more impact on OUR team. And those two are arguably the most successful franchise players in Pittsburgh history. You’re going to sell your boy out because he won’t play D after winning 3 cups and being the point leader in 2 of those? And he was one point behind Sid in that third cup. JFC. Fire this PF Chang loving prick.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

How do you account for not only his signing of Jack Johnson, but then making comments that he knows why JJ was healthy scratched in the POs for CLB and it wasn’t for his play, when his own coach healthy scratched him this year? If that’s not talking off the cuff with limited info in order to make himself look good, it’s certainly incompetent...I lost a ton of respect for JR after that, and his comments after this PO loss attributing the entire loss to the players and not owning his or the coaching staff’s part in it, lost him the remainder of my respect...

Yeah, that's my main issue with this whole thing. JR doubled down on how great he thinks the defense is, while basically saying the failure in the playoffs was a result of the star guys (namely Malkin, Letang, and Kessel) didn't buy into the coaching staff's system.

If JR had acknowledged that BOTH are issues and BOTH need to be addressed moving forward, I'd have much less issue with them calling out the core guys. But when they insist there is absolutely nothing wrong with the defense corps and our loss was on the shoulders of the uncoachable stars not buying in, that's when he loses the plot for me.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I despise the character questions on Geno, I'm with you on that. But I have real questions about his quality on the ice and whether he's a top-5 center anymore or closer to the 15-25 range.

...And he's my favorite player.

That's just it. People are picking their stances on the matter and don't look at the whole reasonings why you would consider trading him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We've all seen this before, anyway.

Remember when Shero and Disco lost the plot and everyone insisted it was all Crosby, Malkin and Letang's fault?

Wrong then, wrong now.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, that's my main issue with this whole thing. JR doubled down on how great he thinks the defense is, while basically saying the failure in the playoffs was a result of the star guys (namely Malkin, Letang, and Kessel) didn't buy into the coaching staff's system.

If JR had acknowledged that BOTH are issues and BOTH need to be addressed moving forward, I'd have much less issue with them calling out the core guys. But when they insist there is absolutely nothing wrong with the defense corps and our loss was on the shoulders of the uncoachable stars not buying in, that's when he loses the plot for me.

100%.

Blame Letang. Blaming Malkin or Sid is just a joke. They deserve blame, but dudes are holding the most hardware in the league of their generation.

 

[Gurglesons]

We've all seen this before, anyway.

Remember when Shero and Disco lost the plot and everyone insisted it was all Crosby, Malkin and Letang's fault?

Wrong then, wrong now.

Difference is Shero never blamed his players. Took full ownership for his decisions.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I'm not concerned that Poni is tweeting this, I'm concerned that he's just quoting what Caufield said. That's one guy who could be a window into what Lemieux is thinking.

Yeah.

It seems like Caufield is always in Mario's owner box every game.

I think he watches the game in Mario's box then leaves to do the intermission.

If somebody would know it would be Caufield IMO.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Difference is Shero never blamed his players. Took full ownership for his decisions.

Yup. I thought Shero's approach to constructing a roster was wrong in the later years - although I did like his emphasis on drafting puck-moving defensemen - and that he was too stubborn or arrogant to move on from Bylsma after the implosion in the Flyers series. But I definitely appreciated that he took ownership of his decisions.

Rutherford appears to take ownership of mistakes when he trades someone he recently acquired, but he never says it publicly. There's always an excuse or someone else to blame.

 

[Peat]

How do you account for not only his signing of Jack Johnson, but then making comments that he knows why JJ was healthy scratched in the POs for CLB and it wasn’t for his play, when his own coach healthy scratched him this year? If that’s not talking off the cuff with limited info in order to make himself look good, it’s certainly incompetent...I lost a ton of respect for JR after that, and his comments after this PO loss attributing the entire loss to the players and not owning his or the coaching staff’s part in it, lost him the remainder of my respect...

Made some highly stupid decisions =/= completely irredeemably stupid.

I want him gone, I'm not dismissing the idea he's just gone insane as impossible, but the idea that he might be somewhat sane on this isn't impossible either.

 

[Gurglesons]

Made some highly stupid decisions =/= completely irredeemably stupid.

I want him gone, I'm not dismissing the idea he's just gone insane as impossible, but the idea that he might be somewhat sane on this isn't impossible either.

I don’t see in what realm moving the third best player in Penguins history because of a bad playoff series is sane.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Kovacevic: Jim Rutherford talks about trading Evgeni Malkin, Kris Letang, more

“I’m not at the point of identifying any one player or a handful of players,” Rutherford replied when I asked specifically about Malkin and Letang, two players I’ve forever felt to be untouchable. “But it’s only natural to look at everything. We don’t want to be that team that stays with a group too long. The most successful franchise around — and people in Pittsburgh won’t want to hear this — is the New England Patriots, and it’s partly because they’re so good at recognizing when to change and how. Do you run out the string with everybody? Or do you consider looking at the value of your assets where they are vs. two to three years from now? That kind of sums up where we are.”


That’s happening. Rutherford’s conferred with everyone from ownership on down, and he isn’t done. Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle are, as ever, available and involved. David Morehouse, too. Bill Guerin and his immediate staff. Mike Sullivan and the coaches. Key players on the team. Even people on the inside whose responsibilities extend beyond actual hockey.

Interesting that Caufield and JR both happened to reference New England today, i bet that's coming from ownership.

JR saying hes talking to key players, that has to be Sid because the other key players are the ones hes talking about trading.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

For me, it's about the timeline. I find it very interesting that as soon as Botterill left in May of 2017, the Pens started targeting these big, slow, ineffective players that don't fit at all with the system and approach they ran when building a team to win two Cups. It's like night and day looking at the direction the team was headed with Botterill on board versus now. I'm not saying Botterill was the real GM, but I think he had a way bigger influence on JR than people realize. If not directly calling the shots on many moves, he was absolutely instrumental in steering JR away from what likely amounts to a ton of stupid, directionless, bad moves.

And like Gretz brings up, it's really interesting to think about the effect Tom Wilson had on JR's psyche. You see Tom Wilson do his thing twice during our back to back Cup runs, and suddenly JR starts going after the Reaves, the Oleksiaks, a bigger, heavier lineup. Even in the case with JJ, who has had a career that's been unanimously considered horrible until this point, hitting was one of his only relatively solid attributes. Then, you account for the fact that Oleksiak has his big, stupid, pointless fight that ends up with Tom Wilson dummying him. What does JR do almost immediately after? Dumps Oleksiak.

JR's a god damn clown.