Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster building: "I need a White Russian"

[Trade]

[copying over from previous thread]

Let me preface this by saying I want to keep Malkin. But like I said, I'm bored and trading him was more fun.

How does this make yinz feel?

And then the following year Justin Schultz leaves and GMJR signs Faulk.

@Empoleon8771 @Honour Over Glory @Ogrezilla

Seeing Duchene shifted to wing in favor of Trochek is hurting my soul. If we are somehow able to sign Matty, really don't know how much we'd need Trochek. I understand a Florida trade is one of the only realistic options for Geno, but we want Duchene at Center or at the very least on Crosby and Jake's wing to form a super line. That's a very minimal concern and overall if we were to somehow land Trochek and Duchene, I definitely would not complain.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Not sure if this has been posted before.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not sure if this has been posted before.

Cliff notes version? I can't stand listening to that one guy basically screaming all episode.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The more I think about it the more that I really believe there is no actual point to this whole thing other than an old overly-emotional gomer without the ability to self-assess having some diarrhea of the mouth. I'm glad that at least his target of choice seems to have a level head and is taking it in stride.

I really don't think there is much point in giving it deep thought or credence. It's just some old man yelling at the clouds.

 

[Pancakes]

Cliff notes version? I can't stand listening to that one guy basically screaming all episode.

They thought basically we needed to make a move because we're up against the cap, and that therefore we need to move one of the big names.

It was a pretty stupid discussion. The Pens will have no trouble getting under the cap and keeping all of Kessel, Letang, Sid, and Geno if they want to.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Cliff notes version? I can't stand listening to that one guy basically screaming all episode.

Basically when you’re up against the cap like the Pens, Malkin is a possible trade piece.
They also mention Phil and Letang.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Aren't the Penguins more or less up against the cap every offseason? That doesn't seem like a terrific argument for moving parts of the core.

I mean... it seems convenient for people with axes to grind. But not particularly sound.

 

[K Fleur]

A scenario where we trade Malkin and one of the big free agents decides to sign with us seems pretty unlikely to me.

I could maybe see it if we trade Kessel + Maatta or whatever but if we trade Malkin I imagine most FAs would not take that as a sign that the Pens are a win now team that is worth signing with. They'll see it as what it looks like: a rebuild.

Yeah who even was the last big free agent to sign with the Pens? Gonchar like 15 years ago maybe?

I mean other than superstar Jack Johnson.

 

[SEALBound]

The best move would be to hire Ron Francis for heir to the gm. I would trust him for a retool to be the guy who tells JR : No!! It would also set them up to rebuild for the years after Sid retires.

The f*** has Ron Francis won that makes you think he'd be better than JR?

That Malkin quote from last night still makes me super pissed at JR. Like why can't JR just keep his mouth shut or not give cryptic, bogus non-answers to questions? Him running his mouth is why these entire Malkin rumors exist. It's just so stupid.

At this point, I almost buy the conspiracy theory that the only reason JR is flaming this idiotic rumor is because he wants people distracted while he trades Kessel, who's another fan favorite.

I would venture the bet that the media soundbites are to light a fire under Malkin's ass to let him they are serious about not tolerating what happened this past season. I know we aren't being told everything on his behavior, nor should we be. Being that its Malkin and what he means to the franchise, it must be pretty bad though. Anyone who thinks this is rogue JR and Sully being mean to Geno trying to run him out of town against everyone's wishes is being foolish. Trade Geno talk doesnt have ANY teeth unless Mario and Burkle approve.

That’s a bridge way too far...

Makes little sense to upset Malkin and use him as a device to soften the blow of moving Kessel.

They tried moving Kessel last summer and you didn’t see stuff like this.

I don’t know why people are having trouble accepting that mgmt feels Malkin was insubordinate this season and felt it hurt the team.

When the GM says he wants the guy to mature on and off the ice - that’s clear and strong message sending.

If Lemieux and Burkle weren’t on board with all of this, JR wouldn’t be tripling down.

I alluded to this in a previous post. Whatever happens will be the right move. Stay or trade.

-I hate that we had to give up that 2020 2nd rounder with floury to keep rust.
-Or that we moved back 20 spots and sundqvist to get ryan F'in reaves
-Or that we gave up a 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th ian cole, and top tier goalie prospect for Bjugstad and McCann

Looking forward to the day that GMJR is let go. Sadly I think that means Billy G gets the job and i have a feeling he wont fall from the same tree

Hindsight is 20/20. You don't think there are trades out there that every GM regrets?

The 2nd in 2020 was to keep Matt Murray, not Bryan Rust. Come on now. You know better.

On a different note, Sullivan must have called the Czech national team and gave the most glowing review ever or he put out a hit on several players because somehow Dominik Simon is playing for the Czech team in the worlds

Have you SEEN his defensive stats!? Unreal. You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

Seeing Duchene shifted to wing in favor of Trochek is hurting my soul. If we are somehow able to sign Matty, really don't know how much we'd need Trochek. I understand a Florida trade is one of the only realistic options for Geno, but we want Duchene at Center or at the very least on Crosby and Jake's wing to form a super line. That's a very minimal concern and overall if we were to somehow land Trochek and Duchene, I definitely would not complain.

Id love Duchene here but agree that him at wing with Trocheck at center makes me uneasy. If Trocheck is in, I want a LW like Skinner in over Duchene. We have enough capable centers. In that scenario, Sid, Trocheck, Bjugstad, McCann, Blueger...

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah who even was the last big free agent to sign with the Pens? Gonchar like 15 years ago maybe?

I mean other than superstar Jack Johnson.

Id say Paul Martin and Michalek were big. Vokoun was big sorta.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, free agents will just come swarming in like gangbusters after they trade the guy who has won almost everything and contributed in a huge way to all their success for many, many years but then had one bad season (where his points per 60 was on par with "career year" hero Tavares) so it's all his fault, now.

That's the operating logic of those who want to move Malkin along so they can have this fantasyland a la carte menu of superstars just waiting to jump on board the JR wacky train.

 

[gdsmack267]

delete

 

[gdsmack267]

\
Hindsight is 20/20. You don't think there are trades out there that every GM regrets?

The 2nd in 2020 was to keep Matt Murray, not Bryan Rust. Come on now. You know better.

Wrong. Murray was getting protected regardless. they were never going to protect MAF. They did however not want to lose Rust and had to give up a 2nd with MAF because they valued Rust so much

 

[Shady Machine]

No idea why the org would feel it necessary to call out Malkin in the media to light a fire under him. Those that argue that are making the assumption that things are so bad, they have to do that. IMO, that's a pretty big assumption. Malkin isn't the easiest guy in the world to coach and I won't claim to know anything inside that locker room, but the guy has been extremely loyal to the team over the years and has taken shit linemates on and off and been fine being second fiddle to Sid. Now all of a sudden he's an insubordinate jackass that is really hurting the team? I call major BS.

If he isn't buying into the coach, you have a serious conversation at the end of the season (among other times). You don't float this shit to the media. I think Malkin deserves more which is why either 1.JR is a moron or 2.They are legit serious about exploring a trade.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

No idea why the org would feel it necessary to call out Malkin in the media to light a fire under him. Those that argue that are making the assumption that things are so bad, they have to do that. IMO, that's a pretty big assumption. Malkin isn't the easiest guy in the world to coach and I won't claim to know anything inside that locker room, but the guy has been extremely loyal to the team over the years and has taken **** linemates on and off and been fine being second fiddle to Sid. Now all of a sudden he's an insubordinate jackass that is really hurting the team? I call major BS.

If he isn't buying into the coach, you have a serious conversation at the end of the season (among other times). You don't float this **** to the media. I think Malkin deserves more which is why either 1.JR is a moron or 2.They are legit serious about exploring a trade.

People have been sharpening their knives for this offseason for years and years now, Shady. I know it. You know it. It's pretty sad that they had to wait until dude was 33 and they have a GM who can't keep his mouth shut or own his mistakes. But here we are.

I don't buy the "motivation via the media" either. That would imply some sort of plan, even if it's a rather slimy one. I think it's just JR flapping his gums cuz he mad mad. Then again considering this team seems to only want to talk to Malkin via intermediaries like Gonchar, perhaps a childish tactic like that isn't out of the question.

 

[SEALBound]

Wrong. Murray was getting protected regardless. they were never going to protect MAF. They did however not want to lose Rust and had to give up a 2nd with MAF because they valued Rust so much

Wrong. MAF was required to be protected.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Wrong. Murray was getting protected regardless. they were never going to protect MAF. They did however not want to lose Rust and had to give up a 2nd with MAF because they valued Rust so much

Rust was/is worth a second. Rust is good. He just had a bad end to the season.

 

[Shady Machine]

People have been sharpening their knives for this offseason for years and years now, Shady. I know it. You know it. It's pretty sad that they had to wait until dude was 33 and they have a GM who can't keep his mouth shut or own his mistakes. But here we are.

I don't buy the "motivation via the media" either. That would imply some sort of plan, even if it's a rather slimy one. I think it's just JR flapping his gums cuz he mad mad. Then again considering this team seems to only want to talk to Malkin via intermediaries like Gonchar, perhaps a childish tactic like that isn't out of the question.

I think @ColePens said the other day (apologies if I'm misquoting) that yinzer crowd would be furious if Malkin was traded. I actually don't think that's the case. Most of the radio talking heads and many of the local media (not all of course) have been critical of Malkin over the years. It was either "he's not Crosby" or "we should trade Malkin and keep Staal" garbage. Anecdotally, many people I know from the 'burgh that aren't die hard hockey/Pens fans aren't huge Malkin fans and buy into that media narrative. Add to that the shit JR is saying and I could easily see a Malkin trade being taken as a net positive in the city.

That said, I tend to agree that a fair amount of it is JR passing the blame. Malkin had a bad season, by his standards, but the blame shifting is absurd.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I guess this has given people something to talk about without the playoffs.....but IMO there is zero chance the Pens trade Malkin unless Malkin asks to be traded because Lemieux won't allow it. And I believe that even if Malkin requested it, Lemieux would talk him off the ledge.

 

[K Fleur]

Wrong. MAF was required to be protected.

Yeah that’s how I remember it too. Since Fleury had a NMC he was automatically protected. And I’m pretty sure teams were only allowed to protect one goalie.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think @ColePens said the other day (apologies if I'm misquoting) that yinzer crowd would be furious if Malkin was traded. I actually don't think that's the case. Most of the radio talking heads and many of the local media (not all of course) have been critical of Malkin over the years. It was either "he's not Crosby" or "we should trade Malkin and keep Staal" garbage. Anecdotally, many people I know from the 'burgh that aren't die hard hockey/Pens fans aren't huge Malkin fans and buy into that media narrative. Add to that the **** JR is saying and I could easily see a Malkin trade being taken as a net positive in the city.

That said, I tend to agree that a fair amount of it is JR passing the blame. Malkin had a bad season, by his standards, but the blame shifting is absurd.

Yup. I've been a little surprised at how many people seem to be of the opinion that it would be an unpopular move. Maybe here and other places where, you know... people actually know what they are looking at. But most of the media and casual crowd absolutely slurps up the Madden/Benz/yinzer narrative. It's like leftover Jagr baggage or something.

 

[SEALBound]

No idea why the org would feel it necessary to call out Malkin in the media to light a fire under him. Those that argue that are making the assumption that things are so bad, they have to do that. IMO, that's a pretty big assumption. Malkin isn't the easiest guy in the world to coach and I won't claim to know anything inside that locker room, but the guy has been extremely loyal to the team over the years and has taken **** linemates on and off and been fine being second fiddle to Sid. Now all of a sudden he's an insubordinate jackass that is really hurting the team? I call major BS.

If he isn't buying into the coach, you have a serious conversation at the end of the season (among other times). You don't float this **** to the media. I think Malkin deserves more which is why either 1.JR is a moron or 2.They are legit serious about exploring a trade.

JR has always used the media in various ways. That said, I think they are legit exploring trade options. Not saying they will but I think they will be exploring value.

Comes down to winning. Whats more important to Mario and Burkle. Winning in future or mediocrity but having the band together?

Like I said before, if the owners think Malkins attitude and unwillingness to be coached into systems that are proving to win in todays NHL, will affect future revenues, then yes I believe they will support a trade assuming the value back makes sense and its implented inside a larger plan.

Can't guarantee anything other than this will 100% not be some rogue JR trade for the sake of trade. EVERYONE, including Geno, will be on board well before the trigger is pulled.

If people want to let their emotional state get the better of them or bury their heads in the sand making believe everything is hunky dory, thats their problem. Doesnt change reality.

 

[gdsmack267]

Yeah that’s how I remember it too. Since Fleury had a NMC he was automatically protected. And I’m pretty sure teams were only allowed to protect one goalie.

Except MAF waived his NMC because he knew his time here was up. It allowed them to protect Murray. My point is the Pens should have never thrown in a draft pick with fleury once he waived his NMC. There was no way Vegas was going to pass on a cup winning starting goaltender. I guarantee you Mcphee called GMJR and said he would snag up Rust if he didnt toss in a pick. I would have called his bluff.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, free agents will just come swarming in like gangbusters after they trade the guy who has won almost everything and contributed in a huge way to all their success for many, many years but then had one bad season (where his points per 60 was on par with "career year" hero Tavares) so it's all his fault, now.

That's the operating logic of those who want to move Malkin along so they can have this fantasyland a la carte menu of superstars just waiting to jump on board the JR wacky train.

I doubt they'd care tbh as long as the money and importance of role is there, providing it meets whatever personal stuff they also want is there,

No idea why the org would feel it necessary to call out Malkin in the media to light a fire under him. Those that argue that are making the assumption that things are so bad, they have to do that. IMO, that's a pretty big assumption. Malkin isn't the easiest guy in the world to coach and I won't claim to know anything inside that locker room, but the guy has been extremely loyal to the team over the years and has taken **** linemates on and off and been fine being second fiddle to Sid. Now all of a sudden he's an insubordinate jackass that is really hurting the team? I call major BS.

If he isn't buying into the coach, you have a serious conversation at the end of the season (among other times). You don't float this **** to the media. I think Malkin deserves more which is why either 1.JR is a moron or 2.They are legit serious about exploring a trade.

Airing the grievances in public seems to be a pretty time-honoured tactic in sports after the org has had the big serious conversations and not got the answers they want. Its a pretty big assumption that this what's happening, but it is logical, and its also a pretty big assumption that this isn't what's happening.

And while I think you've got a fair point about Geno's history, sometimes people change fast. And, with respect to Rutherford's slightly erratic history, whichever way you look at it only makes sense if somebody's changed fast, because picking this fight is still unusually rash for him imo. Or lots of somebodies.

Imo and all that. I am increasingly thinking it might be time to just go to sleep until something actually happens.

 

[SEALBound]

Except MAF waived his NMC because he knew his time here was up. It allowed them to protect Murray. My point is the Pens should have never thrown in a draft pick with fleury once he waived his NMC. There was no way Vegas was going to pass on a cup winning starting goaltender. I guarantee you Mcphee called GMJR and said he would snag up Rust if he didnt toss in a pick. I would have called his bluff.

#wellthereitisgif