Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | I like to do just like the rest, I like my sugar sweet

[66-30-33]

Honestly, I hope it's not.

I'm generally pretty pro owner, as I feel the owners need to be in the best situation to earn money, and the sooner that happens, the better off the league as a whole will be (owners/teams being stable, no lockouts, etc). That said, the players are getting hit with the escrow as more and more teams are spending past the mid point. The way the salary cap is currently setup, is that 50% of expected revenues is the MID POINT, and between the teams that spend to the cap and those that stay closer to the floor, there will be (in theory) some sort of balancing act and escrow only needs to account for a little bit. However with a mid point somewhere around 65m (I'm not 100% certain), there's only a couple teams clearly below it, half a dozen or so hovering around it, and then half the league clearly above it. And right now the average being spent is ~69m. Which means we're talking about something like 90-120m that needs to come from the players to the owners. That's not a small chunk of change.

And really there's no reason for it - as long as the players can show a little restraint. Reduce the artificial cap inflator from 5% to 2.5% (or even less if they can control themselves). Then next year reduce it again, and keep doing that until it's at 0 - then leave it there. It won't completely solve the issue, but it will help it.

That said, math says the players are better off with the cap going up an extra 2m league wide (or whatever the number is), and then the players taking an additional % hit in escrow - because at the end of the day, the escrow hit will be smaller then what they're getting in a contract due to a team's ability to spend. But I get why they complain about it, because it's a big number and one that's really easy to see. I mean if you saw that the govt (or your employer or whomever) was taking 18% of your earnings, and only giving you back 5% of that (plus interest), you'd be pissed too and looking for ways to change it.

My head just exploded.

 

[BlackAndGold87]

Vegas sending 2 scouts makes me think something is going on, even though I know they play each other next week. Combine that with Vegas' overflow of centers and Mackey's continuous speculation that Vegas is very interested in Cole and it's not crazy to think that something is brewing there.

I'd love for the Pens to get Marchessault. Karlsson, and Haula are pipedreams unless the Pens add more since they'll have both under control for a few years. March a UFA.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

A) You're right - they can't. Except for the ones who have tight budgets. And many of the ones who can afford to spend, are not in the most desirable locations. I mean even if Colorado offers someone more money then say Nashville or us or Toronto - is a little more money worth dealing with the rebuild they're doing there (or whatever they want to call it) vs going to a team that is in better shape?

B) What sort of "additional/better/more" cost certainty will the owners get in the next CBA? They have their cap and they have their guaranteed 50/50 split. Now I can see them looking to reduce that, but that's not going to change the current contracts. In fact all that would do, is lower the salary cap.

Re Minny. He signed them to the contracts he had to, to get them signed at a cap hit that didn't hinder the team. That doesn't mean he has to like those contracts. Look at some of us on this board and how much term we're willing to give Hornqvist. Do you think we want to sign him to a 6/7 yr contract? **** no. But many recognize that that's quite possibly what it will take to sign him, and that if need be, we'll plug our noses and suck it up - but we'll do it (not that we have any control over the situation, but you know what I mean). July 1st/Free agency is when you deal with UFA's and trying to improve your team. Sept 1st (or whenever the date was that the CBA expired) is when you deal with the realities of the current CBA and work on making the next one better.

I'd also ask why is only the owner getting blame here? Are the players not being just as greedy in this situation? They took as much money as possible on their deal's, and now want to ensure that they're getting as much of that as possible. How is that any different then the owners side of things - where they're just looking to ensure that they're getting as much money as possible? There seems to be some weird dynamic where the player is justified in trying to earn as much as possible, even at the expense of other players and the owners... but the owner isn't allowed to try and earn as much as possible at the expense of the players, and that they're evil or idiots for trying... I don't get it.

B) Lot's of way to slice the pie in the next CBA- maybe they'll want players to get less % of revenues or whatever. Maybe the owners will want some sort of promise/ guarantee from the league regarding sponsorships?

And I'm surely going to blame the owners- billionaires who don't fleece taxpayers to fund their shiny stadiums. I can't in most instances fault any player trying to maximize his earnings potential as most professional players have about a 5 yr window (some have more/some less). So I can't cry over the owners who are already well off. It's like feeling sorry for a guy who makes money renting land that he didn't even pay for

Sorry that was a major tangent probably lol

 

[PensandCaps]

Hornqvist at $5.5 million for 5 years (similar to the Ladd contract)
Sheahan at $2 million for 2 years
Rust at $2.75 million for 4 years
Corrado at $800k for 1 year
Kuhnhackl and Rowney at $700k for 2 years
Jarry at $1 million for 2 years
Let Reaves, McKegg and Rowney walk as free agents

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
LW-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-3C-Rust
ZAR-Sheahan-Archibald
Kuhnhackl-Rowney

Maatta-Letang
Dumoulin-Schultz
Hunwick-Ruhwedel
Corrado

Murray-Jarry

This lineup costs about $71.5 million, so if the cap is going to rise to $80 million, the Penguins have some significant roster flexibility for next year. They likely have to move Hagelin for any winger they bring in, but if they can manage to do that, they can bring in both an expensive 3C and an expensive 2nd line LWer.

I'd also be curious to see whether the Penguins need a 3C at this point, so basically whether Sheahan develops any further. If he becomes a good 3C, I don't think you need a better one. Imagine throwing some serious money at JVR to play with Malkin and Kessel and instead just finding a good 4C for $1.5 million or so.

I see Rust getting near 4 a year. Like Hagelin did.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I see Rust getting near 4 a year. Like Hagelin did.

I'm hoping we can sign Rust to the same number and term as Sheary. We will see.

 

[Ryder71]

I see Rust getting near 4 a year. Like Hagelin did.

That'd be too much IMO. I'd agree with empoleon, somewhere just south of three million per. I could see a three year eight million dollar deal. Similar to Sheary's.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I see Rust getting near 4 a year. Like Hagelin did.

Rust doesn't have the resume that Hagelin had when he got that deal.

 

[Riptide]

Rust doesn't have the resume that Hagelin had when he got that deal.

This. He might have gotten a fat contract if he'd produced at the pace he was playing at last year (~20g/40pts all at ES), but he's not. 11g/43pt pace just isn't going to cut it when it comes to him getting paid. That said I still think it will be 3m if not a little more over 3-4 years, but it won't be 3.5+. At least not unless he can really pick up the goal scoring between now and the spring.

 

[Peat]

Kuhnhackl and Rowney at $700k for 2 years
...
Let Reaves, McKegg and Rowney walk as free agents

That'll mess with Rowney's head alright.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That'll mess with Rowney's head alright.

I originally had Rowney walking and then I realized it would be valuable to have him as a 5th center/extra forward on the roster, so I moved him to being re-signed without taking him off the other list. Oops

 

[HandshakeLine]

That'll mess with Rowney's head alright.

Unorthodox, but it just might work.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If we're listening to Kane, then maybe that's what Chevy gets for taking 3 years to trade him. Because according to Kane, he asked for a trade every summer since 2012. He was moved in the spring of 2015. Even Sakic with all his BS didn't take anywhere near that long, and he was vilified for it. But nope, everything is all Kane's fault.

I never vilified Sakic, and I'm not responsible for others' opinions.

Who cares? Again, these are a few minor instances that happened 2-3 years ago, not him being accused of raping a young lady or beating up a cabbie or getting a DUI. And lastly, once again, we're talking about him as a rental for a few months, not as a long term role model for the Penguins.

Because having the whole team pulling in the same direction is one of the most important factors in playoff success, and a player with the longest history of any active NHLer of off-ice trouble, a lax attitude toward practice, and butting heads with coaches and teammates is a bad gamble for a defending champion hoping to make another long run.

What's worse, it's not even like we'd be buying low on a player with more red flags than anyone else in the league. We'd be paying a premium.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I know Bobby Mac is saying hes just thinking out loud, but its amazing when he says stuff like that how often it actually happens.

We know Bobby Mac and JR are close, so Bobby Mac could just pick up the phone and find out if he wanted to.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Russo adding fuel to the fire. I'm not that interested in a Cullen reunion, but my ears are perked.



More from Russo, not the same thing JR said in the video but it's damn close.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but this just feels like its going to happen to me.

Does anybody know if Cullen did get traded how that effects his performance bonus?

I know his bonus's are team bonus, like if Minnesota makes it to the finals he get more money.

 

[Andy99]

JR did more than just hint at this...he's on the In the Room episode where they give him the ring telling Bridget jokingly that he's sure she won't mind if they borrow Cullen later in the year, or something about loaning him out for a couple months to the Pens....

 

[Shaffer]

What would he cost? A 5th maybe? Anyways would love it.

Come playoffs:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
ZAR/Simon/Sprong-Malkin-Kessel
Guentzel-3C(for Cole)-Rust
Sheahan-Cullen-Reaves
Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-RHD(for 2nd at deadline)
Hunwick-Schultz
Murray-Jarry

Trades:
Cullen for DET 5th
Lindberg for Cole
Gudbranson+PIT 4th for PIT 2nd

 

[Tom Hanks]

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but this just feels like its going to happen to me.

Does anybody know if Cullen did get traded how that effects his performance bonus?

I know his bonus's are team bonus, like if Minnesota makes it to the finals he get more money.

I’d guess if we are trading for him we are taking his contract team bonus included.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Another interesting thing is that Boudreau said Cullen had one of his best games of the year last game, Boudreau said Cullen's line was the Wild's best line in the game.

Does it make any sense for a coach to scratch a player after saying he had one of his best games of the year?

 

[Shaffer]

JR did more than just hint at this...he's on the In the Room episode where they give him the ring telling Bridget jokingly that he's sure she won't mind if they borrow Cullen later in the year, or something about loaning him out for a couple months to the Pens....

IIRC he(GMJR) said he would wait until the deadline.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I’d guess if we are trading for him we are taking his contract team bonus included.

Ok.

I had no idea because i remember his bonus was based on how far the wild went in the playoffs, i didn't know that the bonus would also apply to the team he was traded for.

 

[canadianguy77]

If you don't think we need a Matt Cullen on this team right now, then I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Tom Hanks]

What would he cost? A 5th maybe? Anyways would love it.

Come playoffs:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
ZAR/Simon/Sprong-Malkin-Kessel
Guentzel-3C(for Cole)-Rust
Sheahan-Cullen-Reaves
Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-RHD(for 2nd at deadline)
Hunwick-Schultz
Murray-Jarry

Trades:
Cullen for DET 5th
Lindberg for Cole
Gudbranson+PIT 4th for PIT 2nd

We don’t want two guys with Cullen who don’t score. Kind of a waste of his playmaking skills.

Leaving a lot of faith in L2’s LW. Although you left out Hags so he’d fit there. I like what I’m seeing lately.

 

[Andy99]

What would he cost? A 5th maybe? Anyways would love it.

Come playoffs:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
ZAR/Simon/Sprong-Malkin-Kessel
Guentzel-3C(for Cole)-Rust
Sheahan-Cullen-Reaves
Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-RHD(for 2nd at deadline)
Hunwick-Schultz
Murray-Jarry

Trades:
Cullen for DET 5th
Lindberg for Cole
Gudbranson+PIT 4th for PIT 2nd

If they get Cullen, I think Sheahan would stay at 3C. My guess is they would go after a LW rather than a straight center...there will be more options at wing to trade for too...

 

[Shaffer]

JR and Russo don’t joke around much. And McKenzie doesn’t usually speculate. Sounding like Cullen is going to be coming back around February...