Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Change is Imminent

[billybudd]

I disagree with this. They can be useful. BUT I think one also needs to actually watch the games as well, and can't just go off the analytics (such as R.Wilson).

I should rephrase. It's not that things like zone starts or FF% are totally worthless, but you have to sort of temper expectations on what they tell you. You probably learn more about a player by looking at his even strength goal total from the last 3 years or by watching him for a week.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I should rephrase. It's not that things like zone starts or FF% are totally worthless, but you have to sort of temper expectations on what they tell you. You probably learn more about a player by looking at his even strength goal total from the last 3 years or by watching him for a week.

Zone starts is kind of misleading because it doesn’t include neutral zone starts and also shift changes in play.

I agree with Rip that some are useful but you have to look at context to see if something is skewing that (plus the eye test).

 

[Peat]

@Sidney the Kidney
Alright, so there's two types of analytics, now.

There's the publicly available stuff, which is basically just people taking data dumps and looking for correlations by rearranging this data. You get a lot of stupidity and obviously faulty conclusions out of these analytics. For an example, read every Ryan Wilson article, ever, but even some of the smarter people have made some ridiculous pronunciations from evaluating this type of information in this way (Gabe Desjardins famously declaring that "there is no such thing as shot quality," a counter-intutive counter-factual which looked right if you did the math a certain way, but was obliterated by a study on goaltending by...I forget who...the guy used to solicit ideas on one of the forums on this site a few years ago)
...
analytics became a pointless thing for fans to discuss. What analytics are valuable are invisible to us and what analytics are available to us are not particularly useful, no matter how colorful the graphs that can be made from them are.

I disagree with this. There's a bunch of stuff in those data dumps that is valuable to know that fans simply don't clock because there's too much going on. Like line match ups (not that analytics is all that reliably available on the data here) - knowing who gets the hard assignments and who doesn't is a big deal. Ditto zone deployment stats.

Sure there's some misleading stuff - like the Pens going a period and more without a shot vs Nashville, but still having more of the puck in attacking areas (which was paywalled stuff that Bonino mentioned) - but I guess you have to eye test statistics as well. Too much happens in hockey to get all of it at once; those data dumps are useful to get the rest.

Yeah I heard the rumor of the friend of a friend who plays poker with Kessel. I'm just not going to put much stock into it.

The bolded was Rossi, and those were his conclusions based on that Rutherford went to Minny vs a team on his yes list. But where Rossi went wrong (IMO) is that Minny was on his list several years ago and went to college in the area... so I don't think it's quite the stretch that Rossi is reaching that Kessel might have okay'd going there - vs say some place like Edmonton or Ottawa, and that as such JR doesn't like the assets that he might get from one of the 8 teams on the yes list. In the end (so far) Kessel hasn't okayed going there, and we'll see going forward how things play out. I'm also sure that at some point in the near future if a trade isn't agreed to that we'll see exactly what his yes list is. Then we can have some informed discussions around it.

I could have sworn that Rossi's stuff was more than his own speculation; I really need to start saving links to this stuff.

 

[Turin]

I disagree with this. There's a bunch of stuff in those data dumps that is valuable to know that fans simply don't clock because there's too much going on. Like line match ups (not that analytics is all that reliably available on the data here) - knowing who gets the hard assignments and who doesn't is a big deal. Ditto zone deployment stats.

Sure there's some misleading stuff - like the Pens going a period and more without a shot vs Nashville, but still having more of the puck in attacking areas (which was paywalled stuff that Bonino mentioned) - but I guess you have to eye test statistics as well. Too much happens in hockey to get all of it at once; those data dumps are useful to get the rest.



I could have sworn that Rossi's stuff was more than his own speculation; I really need to start saving links to this stuff.

Most of what he’s said isn’t speculation (Pens want to move Phil, Johnson, etc), but all the stuff about Phil’s NTC and stuff is.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Been busy have not been active on this forum so I was wondering if you guys could phil me in on the prospect pool.
Anything good or like usual its crap cuz usually its crap.

Just wondering so I can go to trades and free agents and offer are 'gems' for nhl players with more value.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Been busy have not been active on this forum so I was wondering if you guys could phil me in on the prospect pool.
Anything good or like usual its crap cuz usually its crap.

Just wondering so I can go to trades and free agents and offer are 'gems' for nhl players with more value.

Addison and Hallander our our most valued prospects but aren’t bringing much back on their own. They’ll probably be half decent NHL regulars in the future. Hallander is staying in Sweden this season and Addison can’t play in the AHL next season (too young).

EDIT: Would prefer to keep them too unless it’s a really good deal. A skilled offensive RHD and a centre who plays hard like a Hornqvist (or so I’ve been told)

 

[Corvidae]

Juuso wrong about what JR should do. He needs to be Calen other GMs to Philip the prospect cupboard. Hayes not just going to lay down and be a door Matt for other GMs, he'll make a good move Justin time for the Summers.

This is nearly unintelligible. I love it.

 

[Pens1566]

Woaaaah. Thread is on fire right now.

Great, just what Bellerive needs ...

(too soon?)

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This is peak "we got eliminated a month and a half ago". This is boredom nirvana.

 

[SirBrad]

I can see I haven't missed much during my 6 week hockey detox.

 

[Andy99]

I can see I haven't missed much during my 6 week hockey detox.

Why on earth would you ever want a hockey detox? That’s worse than a liver detox plan that involves drinking puréed kale four times a day...

 

[Burn]

Juuso wrong about what JR should do. He needs to be Calen other GMs to Philip the prospect cupboard. Hayes not just going to lay down and be a door Matt for other GMs, he'll make a good move Justin time for the Summers.

I can't get enough.

The tears...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I sabotaged the team.

Muahahaha

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Rust easy, JR always fixes his mistakes.

He has to fix the guys I wanted, now if he will get rid of Geno and Phil for me, I can really implement my system.

 

[Turin]

He has to fix the guys I wanted, now if he will get rid of Geno and Phil for me, I can really implement my system.

It’s time to seek help.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s time to seek help.

I think we all know who it is right..

 

[ChaosAgent]

I sabotaged the team.

Muahahaha

Chill, Sully. You give yourself too much credit. Phil sabotaged himself. If anything, your dude JR sabotaged the team.

But do yourself a favor and...update your resume a little bit if we're out of the playoff picture any time between December and mid-February.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think we all know who it is right..

The funny thing is that in the old username, if Phil would have played with a little more of the H-word and did a little less chasing of the G-word he'd be a much better player than he is.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Juuso wrong about what JR should do. He needs to be Calen other GMs to Philip the prospect cupboard. Hayes not just going to lay down and be a door Matt for other GMs, he'll make a good move Justin time for the Summers.

That’s the Stanley Cup of Puns right there. It was like the Pens 2016 playoff performance, just beautiful.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think we all know who it is right..

@Mike Sullivan

 

[Tom Hanks]

JR met with Phil today

 

[WayneSid9987]

JR met with Phil today

Heh.
End of the day it's gonna be something like this, i believe, for Phil.
He can hope to go many places but only a couple or 3 cups will be presented to him and it might not be any cups he's too super enthused about.

 

[SEALBound]

What sucks, is that Phil is gonna make this a thing. Once the deal is made and Phil feels dissed, he's gonna start next season determined to prove everyone wrong. Ironically, had he give a similar effort here, it wouldn't have been a thing to begin with.

 

[Gurglesons]

What sucks, is that Phil is gonna make this a thing. Once the deal is made and Phil feels dissed, he's gonna start next season determined to prove everyone wrong. Ironically, had he give a similar effort here, it wouldn't have been a thing to begin with.

I’m not even sure the effort is the issue. It’s probably more like he won’t accept a role on the team that has been shown to work and when he plays with Malkin they both just go all offense.

You could tell this year when he got minutes with Sid he was playing like HBK and Guentzel - Sheahan - Kessel.

 

[Riptide]

I’m not even sure the effort is the issue. It’s probably more like he won’t accept a role on the team that has been shown to work and when he plays with Malkin they both just go all offense.

You could tell this year when he got minutes with Sid he was playing like HBK and Guentzel - Sheahan - Kessel.

Well that too is part of it. But his defensive issues and stupidity is absolutely effort - or him not giving a shit, which in my mind goes back to effort, but call it what you will. All in all we got what we needed out of him, and now it's pretty obvious that it's time to move on.