Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Cat On a Tin Roof, Dogs In a Pile

[Peat]

So Horny doesn't play well with Sid now? Well that's news to me

When was the last time he did? They barely played together in the back end of last season. This season, Horny has 1 EV goal with Sid contributing, Sid has 4 with Horny contributing.

I'm not saying they never will again. That would be ridiculous. But its enough to give me a little bit of doubt. Particularly when we've all heard that Sid doesn't like playing with him.

I was all in favour of Sid and Horny at the beginning of the season. But it hasn't been an answer.

 

[66-30-33]

Crosby still plays good with Horny, but he needs fresh blood at the same time. Crosby has been pretty bad all season minus here and there but I chalk that up as he's saving his energy. Malkin goes down and out of nowhere Crosby goes beast mode, Malkin comes back and Crosby sucks again to save more energy. Now lately Crosby been beast mode again, will probably stay beast mode for a little while as he has got the young fresh blood on his wings before he goes back into saving energy mode, then the final 10 games goes into beast mode again for the playoffs assuming we make it.

 

[Riptide]

When was the last time he did? They barely played together in the back end of last season. This season, Horny has 1 EV goal with Sid contributing, Sid has 4 with Horny contributing.

I'm not saying they never will again. That would be ridiculous. But its enough to give me a little bit of doubt. Particularly when we've all heard that Sid doesn't like playing with him.

I was all in favour of Sid and Horny at the beginning of the season. But it hasn't been an answer.

Then that would account for what... 40-50% of Sid's ES goals?

It "hasn't been the answer" due to the fact that Crosby is struggling mightily and has been for the vast majority of the season, and the players who could help him (primarily Guentzel and Sheary) are having their own struggles.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think a huge advantage to making a shakeup-style move is that it gets fresh, hungry bodies into the lineup. One of the biggest things plaguing this team is a lack of desperation, hunger, and drive. These guys are complacent as can be, on top of the lineup underperforming and missing key components.

 

[MtlPenFan]

If Sid could stomach playing with Horny, Horny would be on his line.

 

[66-30-33]

I think a huge advantage to making a shakeup-style move is that it gets fresh, hungry bodies into the lineup. One of the biggest things plaguing this team is a lack of desperation, hunger, and drive. These guys are complacent as can be, on top of the lineup underperforming and missing key components.

Sheary, Hagelin, Cole, Hornqvist (if he's not going to re-sign with us), plus picks/prospects and 4th line guys like Kuhn, Rowney, etc, out.
Duclair, Reider, Petro, whatever we get in a trade for Hornqvist, in.

All long term pieces. No idea where Hornqvist would go.

 

[Peat]

Then that would account for what... 40-50% of Sid's ES goals?

It "hasn't been the answer" due to the fact that Crosby is struggling mightily and has been for the vast majority of the season, and the players who could help him (primarily Guentzel and Sheary) are having their own struggles.

45pc or so, yeah. But its still not what we want.

And why is Crosby struggling? Is it simply all internal? Or might it be due to fit/lack of enthusiasm at playing with some of them? Such as the guy who he allegedly doesn't like playing with?

I mean... I'm not a 100% sold on Crosby and Horny being dead. But I think people are being a little gung-ho about it definitely absolutely being fine.

If I was as confident as you guys in Sid/Horny, I'd be adamant we have to resign him.

 

[pistolpete11]

I would be very disappointed in everyone involved if they got rid of Hornqvist because Sid "doesn't like" playing with him.

 

[66-30-33]

I would be very disappointed in everyone involved if they got rid of Hornqvist because Sid "doesn't like" playing with him.

You only get rid of Hornqvist if he does not wanna play here beyond this season. He's already given a counter offer of 5.5M for what...5 years was it? over JR's 3 years? i'd give Hornqvist 6M for 6 years, but 5.5 for 5 is even better so I'd go with that. I think if we got someone like Pageau he would do well with him, just something about thinking of Pageau and Hornqvist says they would work well together. Maybe it's because of his name? I dunno, just got a feeling. Smith-Peageau-Hornqvist would be a solid 3rd line if we could get both.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I would be very disappointed in everyone involved if they got rid of Hornqvist because Sid "doesn't like" playing with him.

I’m sure he liked it when he was close to a goal per game in the first quarter of last season and all those times they forget about him to beat Horny up in front of the net.

 

[chethejet]

Maybe centers like Sid get tired of watching his passes not connect cause the winger can't skate good enough. A LW with a LH shot who plays like Hornqvist would fit better with Sid. On this team he is a third line winger. That is all that matters. and if the AAV and term are more than 5 years and more then 6 million, yes I trade him for that center. I take my chances with Kessel, Sprong and Rust next year.

 

[Stad]

That's old news.

Friedman made those comments on Dec 29th.

JR literally came out yesterday and said a trade wouldn't fix the pens issues.

Where's the link to this?

 

[ColePens]

Edit: a top 6 forward that doesn't fit with either of our 2 top Centers. That's reality

He fits with Sid and has actually looked great with Geno in the last couple games. But my favorite thing is you make an argument that Horny isn't in the top 6, but we all want Kessel on his own line. Ummm whaaat? 72 can fit anywhere.

 

[Clare2904]

Where's the link to this?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think some of those are way out of wack as well.
Jarry will not get 2.75m. Maybe half that.
I doubt Rust will either after his season, although that's going to be more term dependent then anything.
Sheahan's QO is ~2.2m. I doubt he takes less than that, even if he's getting some term.
I doubt Oleksiak gets 2.75m - even with 3-4 yrs of term. Something much closer to Hunwicks deal is more likely (if he gets term).

I went as generous as possible as a buffer. I wanted to show it was possible to still retain Horny.

 

[Coastal Kev]

He fits with Sid and has actually looked great with Geno in the last couple games. But my favorite thing is you make an argument that Horny isn't in the top 6, but we all want Kessel on his own line. Ummm whaaat? 72 can fit anywhere.

Here's how that makes sense, Kessel can carry a line's production and Horny cannot.

 

[Nakawick]

JR is all about trading, has been since the summer. Mid December he was talking about a shake up trade, leaked that Letang was available but didn't get an offer he liked and there are no dance partners right now, so he has to put it back on the team to play better, which they do, but JR doesn't have a trade option. At least not right now.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Here's how that makes sense, Kessel can carry a line's production and Horny cannot.

Agreed. You're gonna need a much better LW and C to go with Horny to make that third line a legitimate threat than you will with Kessel at RW.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Agree with the first half, not so sure about the second half. Yes we won without Letang, but man was it a dog fight and it was ugly. I can't imagine us winning again without a seriously good PMD coming back.

The problem is that we need to shed salary somewhere if we want to retain both Horny and Kessel AND acquire a legit 3C, and there aren't many reasonable targets beyond Letang. I don't think the PMD coming back would have to be a world-beater. A reliable cost-controlled top 4 RH PMD would be enough to cover what we need on the back-end, IMO.

That we were missing "Letang" last year wasn't such a big problem. We were missing 7.25 mil in cap space that could have been used any number of ways, and Tanger sure as f*** hasn't given us value-for-money this year.

No, I think the question with Letang is if he’ll get back to where he was or close to it. If he can you don’t trade him. If he can’t it becomes about if he’s close to worth that contract going forward and if they can be trusted to use him properly if he’s no longer a bonafide 1D. If he’s a 7.25M 4D going forward who they use like a 1D then he’s got to go.

My issue is that even when he's "on", he's injury prone and not really necessary offensively with Schultz in the fold.

 

[Peat]

The problem is that we need to shed salary somewhere if we want to retain both Horny and Kessel AND acquire a legit 3C, and there aren't many reasonable targets beyond Letang. I don't think the PMD coming back would have to be a world-beater. A reliable cost-controlled RH PMD would be enough to cover what we need on the back-end, IMO.

That we were missing "Letang" last year wasn't such a big problem. We were missing 7.25 mil in cap space that could have been used any number of ways, and Tanger sure as **** hasn't given us value-for-money this year.



My issue is that even when he's "on", he's injury prone and not really necessary offensively with Schultz in the fold.

What sort of PMD you thinking here? Dumba? Another Schultz? Shattenkirk?

Because to me, having two high end PMD on the ice almost all the time is a big part of the team being good. That puck transition is the foundation of our scoring.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The problem is that we need to shed salary somewhere if we want to retain both Horny and Kessel AND acquire a legit 3C, and there aren't many reasonable targets beyond Letang. I don't think the PMD coming back would have to be a world-beater. A reliable cost-controlled top 4 RH PMD would be enough to cover what we need on the back-end, IMO.

That we were missing "Letang" last year wasn't such a big problem. We were missing 7.25 mil in cap space that could have been used any number of ways, and Tanger sure as **** hasn't given us value-for-money this year.



My issue is that even when he's "on", he's injury prone and not really necessary offensively with Schultz in the fold.

Yeah, but when he’s on I think he’s still worth it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Agreed. You're gonna need a much better LW and C to go with Horny to make that third line a legitimate threat than you will with Kessel at RW.

We have Sheary or Guentzel for the LW to go with Hornqvist. We’d want a better C than what we have now but we’d want a better (or at least different) C anyway (even if Kessel was on L3)

 

[Tom Hanks]

We have a new scout and he’s already calling JR.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

When was the last time he did? They barely played together in the back end of last season. This season, Horny has 1 EV goal with Sid contributing, Sid has 4 with Horny contributing.

I'm not saying they never will again. That would be ridiculous. But its enough to give me a little bit of doubt. Particularly when we've all heard that Sid doesn't like playing with him.

I was all in favour of Sid and Horny at the beginning of the season. But it hasn't been an answer.

The good thing is that Sheahan & Hornqvist are good together, so if they decide to not move him at the TDL and can't land a solid 3C better than Sheahan (and that's fine, I like Sheahan) and add a solid 4C instead, I am ok with that.

Sid-Sprong
Geno-Kessel
Sheahan-Hornqvist
4C-Rust

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We have a new scout and he’s already calling JR.

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