Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Cap Details + Links in First Post | We can't pay the D this much...

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Let me go ahead and beat a dead horse by saying Phil's gotta go. For both Phil's sake and this team's.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Let me go ahead and beat a dead horse by saying Phil's gotta go. For both Phil's sake and this team's.

@Big Friggin Dummy BFD where we you at when that Canes fan had us rank our top 10 highest valued trade assets (as in, would take the most for us to be willing to give 'em up)? Would Phil have been in your top 10? It's page 30 or so.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

@Big Friggin Dummy BFD where we you at when that Canes fan had us rank our top 10 highest valued trade assets (as in, would take the most for us to be willing to give 'em up)? Would Phil have been in your top 10? It's page 30 or so.

Man, I'm just stupidly floating down the lazy river of life. I missed it. I checked it out and if I'm getting it right, it's essentially asking for my top-10 guys I'd keep around?

1. Sid
2. Geno
3. Jake
4. Letang
5. Murray
6. Dumoulin
7. Hornqvist
8. Schultz
9. McCann
10. Rust

I'd love to find a spot for Bjugstad, since it's been hammered into our minds as Pens fans just how awful it can be to find a third line center that fits, but I can't justify his spot over any of those guys.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Man, I'm just stupidly floating down the lazy river of life. I missed it. I checked it out and if I'm getting it right, it's essentially asking for my top-10 guys I'd keep around?

1. Sid
2. Geno
3. Jake
4. Letang
5. Murray
6. Dumoulin
7. Hornqvist
8. Schultz
9. McCann
10. Rust

I'd love to find a spot for Bjugstad, since it's been hammered into our minds as Pens fans just how awful it can be to find a third line center that fits, but I can't justify his spot over any of those guys.

I'd have Pettersson in over Hornqvist but aside from that we're aligned.

I certainly won't call you stupid for spending time on, ya know, the outside world.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd have Pettersson in over Hornqvist but aside from that we're aligned.

I certainly won't call you stupid for spending time on, ya know, the outside world.

Yeah, I wanted to squeeze Petts in there too but Horny is just too damn important to this team, I think. Could go either way, especially if Petts continues to develop along his current trajectory.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Move Kessel at the draft. Just dont pick another Pouliot.

 

[Son Goku]

Yeah, I wanted to squeeze Petts in there too but Horny is just too damn important to this team, I think. Could go either way, especially if Petts continues to develop along his current trajectory.

cant wait till petts gains some muscle. He’s so solid as a player its hard to remember he is only a rookie. He makes some mistakes but he’s much more mature than most rookie defensemen.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

cant wait till petts gains some muscle. He’s so solid as a player its hard to remember he is only a rookie. He makes some mistakes but he’s much more mature than most rookie defensemen.

I'm never gonna stop slapping tables and yelling at the top of my lungs that Riikola needs his chance like Petts, because I really do think he's a solid d-man as well, but yeah, Petts has been a gem.

I'd be perfectly comfortable going with a blueline consisting of Dumo-Tanger, Petts-Schultz, and Riikola-Gudbranson moving forward.

 

[Coach Travis]

Hard disagree about trading Phil Kessel.

• Tied for 31st in 5v5 scoring (with Malkin, Stamkos, Seguin, Wheeler).
• Tied for 8th in Powerplay scoring (with McDavid, 4 PP points behind 2nd place Yandle).
• Hasn't missed a game since 2009 (which when you're a franchise where injuries to star players is a bad running joke, that's important)
• Aging curve defiant (Had his most productive season last year. About to tie his 2nd most productive season this year)
• $6.8M with the cap going up again

Now look, I'm not saying it's impossible to get better value than that. Jake Guentzel is better value than that. I'm saying you're not going to find it in a trade. And if you're really searching for cap relief in the form of trading a forward in his 30s because you're worried he's going to hit the aging curve hard... I won't get into that today.

Meanwhile the Pens have amassed $28M in Defence, and that's not even including whatever Pettersson's going to sign for this Summer.

 

[Riptide]

Hard disagree about trading Phil Kessel.

• Tied for 31st in 5v5 scoring (with Malkin, Stamkos, Seguin, Wheeler).
• Tied for 8th in Powerplay scoring (with McDavid, 4 PP points behind 2nd place Yandle).
• Hasn't missed a game since 2009 (which when you're a franchise where injuries to star players is a bad running joke, that's important)
• Aging curve defiant (Had his most productive season last year. About to tie his 2nd most productive season this year)
• $6.8M with the cap going up again

Now look, I'm not saying it's impossible to get better value than that. Jake Guentzel is better value than that. I'm saying you're not going to find it in a trade. And if you're really searching for cap relief in the form of trading a forward in his 30s because you're worried he's going to hit the aging curve hard... I won't get into that today.

Meanwhile the Pens have amassed $28M in Defence, and that's not even including whatever Pettersson's going to sign for this Summer.

Regarding the last point. Someone from the blueline is gone this summer. And that someone is most likely Maatta. I doubt Rutherford would move JJ at this point due to both his picked up play since Dec and JR not wanting to look like he made a mistake. And I don't think that he'd move Gudbranson. Rutherford has talked multiple times about having size and physical play in the lineup. And while we're still dealing with a fairly small sample size, Gudbranson has played a LOT better then what most (inc myself) expected out of him when he was acquired. Pettersson even with a raise into the 2m range (still likely high) doesn't really shed enough cap to make it worth it - plus staying young on the blueline is important, as is having cheap players and MP is both. That really only leaves Maatta.

As for Kessel, I'm torn... The dude is crazy skilled and his cap hit/value is extremely good. However the more I watch him have up/down games (or a 20 game bad stretch), the more I'd be willing to see what our options are. That said, if there's an option to get a young skilled player who can play in a top 6/9 role, then I'd be pretty interested. Pure futures wouldn't interest me at all, but if we could get someone in their early 20s who's already a 35/40pt winger with potential for more, then I'd be interested in seeing where it might go. The flip side is there's obviously a lot of risk there, as Kessel is someone that would be very hard to replace. But I think as we watch him more and more, moving him should never be off the table if the right offer (and I'm not talking about an overpay - little or big) is out there.

 

[chethejet]

Kessel and Olli can be moved for assets coming back picks and prospects. Pens need to have cap room and no question Pens need to retool to help Malkin more with a good two way winger.

 

[Son Goku]

Just realized that Teddy Blueger rhymes with Freddy Kruger.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yeah, I wanted to squeeze Petts in there too but Horny is just too damn important to this team, I think. Could go either way, especially if Petts continues to develop along his current trajectory.

They better trade Horny this year while they still can, otherwise he will quickly become a target for ridicule on these boards.

#Foresight

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hard disagree about trading Phil Kessel.

• Tied for 31st in 5v5 scoring (with Malkin, Stamkos, Seguin, Wheeler).
• Tied for 8th in Powerplay scoring (with McDavid, 4 PP points behind 2nd place Yandle).
• Hasn't missed a game since 2009 (which when you're a franchise where injuries to star players is a bad running joke, that's important)
• Aging curve defiant (Had his most productive season last year. About to tie his 2nd most productive season this year)
• $6.8M with the cap going up again

Now look, I'm not saying it's impossible to get better value than that. Jake Guentzel is better value than that. I'm saying you're not going to find it in a trade. And if you're really searching for cap relief in the form of trading a forward in his 30s because you're worried he's going to hit the aging curve hard... I won't get into that today.

Meanwhile the Pens have amassed $28M in Defence, and that's not even including whatever Pettersson's going to sign for this Summer.

I’m worried moving Kessel could be the end of any true cup contention window.

On the other hand I highly suspect Sullivan and the org will seriously consider moving him unless the team goes on an epic run with Kessel playing a major role.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Move Kessel at the draft. Just dont pick another Pouliot.

Yep

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Regarding the last point. Someone from the blueline is gone this summer. And that someone is most likely Maatta. I doubt Rutherford would move JJ at this point due to both his picked up play since Dec and JR not wanting to look like he made a mistake. And I don't think that he'd move Gudbranson. Rutherford has talked multiple times about having size and physical play in the lineup. And while we're still dealing with a fairly small sample size, Gudbranson has played a LOT better then what most (inc myself) expected out of him when he was acquired. Pettersson even with a raise into the 2m range (still likely high) doesn't really shed enough cap to make it worth it - plus staying young on the blueline is important, as is having cheap players and MP is both. That really only leaves Maatta.

Just doing some quick mental math, I don't think moving ONLY Maatta gives the Pens enough cap room for next season.

 

[Peat]

Just doing some quick mental math, I don't think moving ONLY Maatta gives the Pens enough cap room for next season.

Should be okay if the cap goes up to 82m as predicted.

 

[Pancakes]

Hard disagree about trading Phil Kessel.

• Tied for 31st in 5v5 scoring (with Malkin, Stamkos, Seguin, Wheeler).
• Tied for 8th in Powerplay scoring (with McDavid, 4 PP points behind 2nd place Yandle).
• Hasn't missed a game since 2009 (which when you're a franchise where injuries to star players is a bad running joke, that's important)
• Aging curve defiant (Had his most productive season last year. About to tie his 2nd most productive season this year)
• $6.8M with the cap going up again

Now look, I'm not saying it's impossible to get better value than that. Jake Guentzel is better value than that. I'm saying you're not going to find it in a trade. And if you're really searching for cap relief in the form of trading a forward in his 30s because you're worried he's going to hit the aging curve hard... I won't get into that today.

Meanwhile the Pens have amassed $28M in Defence, and that's not even including whatever Pettersson's going to sign for this Summer.

Hard agree. The grass isn't always greener. We're in win now mode. I can't see a trade where we move a PPG player and end up being better off.

Regarding the last point. Someone from the blueline is gone this summer. And that someone is most likely Maatta. I doubt Rutherford would move JJ at this point due to both his picked up play since Dec and JR not wanting to look like he made a mistake. And I don't think that he'd move Gudbranson. Rutherford has talked multiple times about having size and physical play in the lineup. And while we're still dealing with a fairly small sample size, Gudbranson has played a LOT better then what most (inc myself) expected out of him when he was acquired. Pettersson even with a raise into the 2m range (still likely high) doesn't really shed enough cap to make it worth it - plus staying young on the blueline is important, as is having cheap players and MP is both. That really only leaves Maatta.

I'm not sure what JR will end up doing. They really love Maatta. Gudbranson has provided an element JR has been looking for.

And then there's Phil. There was a lot of smoke the past off season about the Pens shopping Kessel around. Does JR revisit that this off season given our cap troubles? Man, I hope not. It seems like an awful idea to move a PPG player and keep Gudbranson and Maatta. A really really bad idea.

 

[chethejet]

Malkins injury may be a reason for the awareness the Pens as constructed just are counting on two vets who have seen better days. Pens are in the mode or should be getting younger faster harder to play against and yes cheaper. It happens to all franchises that a run is done unless changes happen. Both Sid and Malkin can't continue to elevate marginal players.

 

[Peat]

I'm not sure what JR will end up doing. They really love Maatta. Gudbranson has provided an element JR has been looking for.

And then there's Phil. There was a lot of smoke the past off season about the Pens shopping Kessel around. Does JR revisit that this off season given our cap troubles? Man, I hope not. It seems like an awful idea to move a PPG player and keep Gudbranson and Maatta. A really really bad idea.

The blue line is too loaded to carry on like this. They're not making Pettersson a 7D, they're not making a 4m dman a 7D. Someone is going.

I can't tell you not to worry about Kessel but I can tell you that its super unlikely that the defence goes untouched. It would be beyond profligate.

 

[Trade]

I think they're taking this years playoffs as a final scouting report for who exactly they plan on keeping around.

Obviously Phil and like Maatta already have one foot out the door which I would be perfectly okay with. But imagine Phil has a playoff run like we know Kessel is capable of? Would we be so quick to get rid of him over some regular season effort deficiencies? It's most definitely wishful thinking, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’m worried moving Kessel could be the end of any true cup contention window.

On the other hand I highly suspect Sullivan and the org will seriously consider moving him unless the team goes on an epic run with Kessel playing a major role.

Why do you fill the rumor mill by saying Sullivan wants him moved?

Everything I’ve ever read / heard from Sully sounds like he respects and wants Phil to work.

This is on Kessel. Great player, but he doesn’t fit here and he’s thrown a fit about playing a third line role. (He did this in 2016 as well which is documented in Between the Benches by Custance).

Honestly, Kessel did what we need him to. We now have a better more complete PPG winger and can gain some cap space and continue the shift to getting younger by moving Phil out.

It is a logical move. It’s why Letang is on the block as well eventually if you want to continue to be a contender. Sid and Geno are the only lifers here for what they’ve done for the franchise.

 

[EightyOne]

Onboard for Kessel, Hornqvist, Maatta out as a start to the summer by JR.

 

[Pancakes]

I think if you move Phil you gotta remember too that when we traded him we gave up a late first and Kapanen for him. He's now older, so we might get an even worse package than that for him. Is it really worth trading a PPG player to get a late round first and a prospect that is probably worse than Kapanen?

Or if you do move him for a guy who can play now instead and forget about picks, then you end up with a guy who is - unless we get hugely lucky in terms of fit - going to be worse than Kessel at least in terms of production. Maybe if JR does his research well he gets a guy who possesses the puck well even if we take a production hit in comparison.

The only way I could see in the short term moving Kessel and being better off for it is Guentzel stepping into his PP slot and being able to produce at a similar rate and then the new guy being a good possession player and driving Malkin to produce better at even strength. Both of those are giant ifs for me.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The only way I could see in the short term moving Kessel and being better off for it is Guentzel stepping into his PP slot and being able to produce at a similar rate and then the new guy being a good possession player and driving Malkin to produce better at even strength. Both of those are giant ifs for me.

Number 1 is somewhat of a risk, because Jake isn't right-handed.

Number 2 is a stone-cold lock. Malkin-Kessel is a disaster at even strength and has been for over a year now.