Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Cap Details + Links in First Post | Phillin' Fine

[HandshakeLine]

Why is it a revelation that trades that look good on paper sometimes fail horribly?

 

[Icarium]

Then we get Gudbranson because Hagelin wasn't producing, Gudbranson is doing his Reaves thing basically, at 3x the cost.

Reaves was useless when he was here, stop with this revisionist history. Sullivan didn't play him much because he was utterly useless except for a handful of games. You keep harping on this as if we lost Wayne Gretzky, not Ryan freaking Reaves.

Also, very surprisingly and might change any day, but Gudbranson has been a perfectly serviceable defenceman so far. Doing his Reaves thing would have been to do nothing but fight occasionally and look tough. playing very limited minutes.

 

[Beauner]

Gotta think Hags = Guds at this point.
I still think pens sign hags in the offseason. I have the feels of love lost.

I was thinking of this the other day. Geno hasn't been great all year but him and Phil both really dropped off after Hagelin was traded. AND JR tried to reacquire him anyway.

I'm just wondering what kind of contact he'd get. He can't be getting much of a raise at all right? What's the term going to be like? 3 years $4.5AAV? We'd have to trade someone to fit that in.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Reaves was useless when he was here, stop with this revisionist history. Sullivan didn't play him much because he was utterly useless except for a handful of games. You keep harping on this as if we lost Wayne Gretzky, not Ryan freaking Reaves.

Also, very surprisingly and might change any day, but Gudbranson has been a perfectly serviceable defenceman so far. Doing his Reaves thing would have been to do nothing but fight occasionally and look tough. playing very limited minutes.

But Garrett Wilson and his whopping one goal TB served on a platter isn’t useless?

Reaves was treated like a goon. Sullivan f***ed it up, just some people don’t want to admit it. Reaves is having a career year and has been extremely effective for both the Blues and Knights.

It isn’t rocket surgery to figure out why he didn’t have success as a Pen.

 

[EightyOne]

I'd trade Kessel for ....anyone.

I wonder SJS will take his salary and offense on if they fail to secure EK...maybe pens could get Meier....who is RFA and needs a new contract coming off of ELC that will likely be 6.5-7.5mil.

Doubt it.

 

[EightyOne]

I was thinking of this the other day. Geno hasn't been great all year but him and Phil both really dropped off after Hagelin was traded. AND JR tried to reacquire him anyway.

I'm just wondering what kind of contact he'd get. He can't be getting much of a raise at all right? What's the term going to be like? 3 years $4.5AAV? We'd have to trade someone to fit that in.

The drop off was before the trade.

It's WHY Hagelin was traded. The line sucked. He was most easily expendable guy who in leaving would spark everyone else to figure their shit out.

 

[Icarium]

But Garrett Wilson and his whopping one goal TB served on a platter isn’t useless?

Who says that he isn't useless? He is. This doesn't make any difference for Reaves, though.

Reaves was treated like a goon. Sullivan ****ed it up, just some people don’t want to admit it.

And some players just don't fit well in certain teams. I don't see why we need to assume it was all Sullivan's fault. If Reaves had shown even a third of what he is showing in Vegas, he would have played a lot more and would probably still be here. What's even more hilarious is that some of the same posters who accuse Sullivan of having a soft spot for scrubs like Wilson are adamant he must have had a vendetta against Reaves, who, let's face it, is not exactly a super skilled player. He is just bigger and a bit more skilled than the average 4th line scrub, you would think that if Sullivan were so in love with scrubs he would have loved Reaves too.

The drop off was before the trade.

It's WHY Hagelin was traded. The line sucked.

Yes, also Hagelin managed to have three points on a line with Malkin, the second star of October, and a pretty good Kessel. I miss 2016 Hagelin very much but just like Reaves there is so much revisionist history about 2018 Hagelin.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'd trade Kessel for ....anyone.

Yeah, I'd trade him for the $6.8m back. Don't care if what we get with $6.8 is proven PPG, or even if it's a forward or D. Drop Maatta as well so this player will be good.

Phil doesn't help Malkin, doesn't help L3. Arguably doesn't help PP either. No use. Thanks for 2016, and to a lesser extent 2017.

 

[Andy99]

Yes, also Hagelin managed to have three points on a line with Malkin, the second star of October, and a pretty good Kessel. I miss 2016 Hagelin very much but just like Reaves there is so much revisionist history about 2018 Hagelin.

Hags has been putting up points on WSH’s third line since he arrived there (6 points in 12 games) and is helping make Connolly a 20-goal scorer and he’s helped solidify their PK...by his own admission, Hags doesn’t usually get his legs for the season until after Christmas...let’s not undersell 2018-19 Hags...he helps make a team a contender...teams need these guys and it was a mistake for the Pens to trade him basically just to send a message to the room...ridiculous stupidity...I would not be in favor of re-signing a 31- year-old Hags this summer but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have helped the Pens now...he would have

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Who says that he isn't useless? He is. This doesn't make any difference for Reaves, though.

And some players just don't fit well in certain teams. I don't see why we need to assume it was all Sullivan's fault. If Reaves had shown even a third of what he is showing in Vegas, he would have played a lot more and would probably still be here. What's even more hilarious is that some of the same posters who accuse Sullivan of having a soft spot for scrubs like Wilson are adamant he must have had a vendetta against Reaves, who, let's not face it, is not exactly a super skilled player. He is just bigger and a bit more skilled than the average 4th line scrub, you would think that if Sullivan were so in love with scrubs he would have loved Reaves too.

Yes, also Hagelin managed to have three points on a line with Malkin, the second star of October, and a pretty good Kessel. I miss 2016 Hagelin very much but just like Reaves there is so much revisionist history about 2018 Hagelin.

Reaves didn’t PK, that was held agt him from the get go. So no, he didn’t love a guy like him. It was an open secret he didn’t really want a guy like Reaves, so like with Sprong and Cole, he made him gone.

Like I said, people can tell themselves whatever they want, but Reaves was misused by Sullivan.

He’s playing the exact same game he always has, the difference is he was shafted by Sullivan and avg 6:45 TOI under him.

Reaves didn’t suddenly forget how to play hockey when he left the Blues, then remembered how to play well again with Vegas. And this system BS excuse needs to stop. Most fourth lines around the league all play similar roles.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Reaves was useless when he was here, stop with this revisionist history. Sullivan didn't play him much because he was utterly useless except for a handful of games. You keep harping on this as if we lost Wayne Gretzky, not Ryan freaking Reaves.

Also, very surprisingly and might change any day, but Gudbranson has been a perfectly serviceable defenceman so far. Doing his Reaves thing would have been to do nothing but fight occasionally and look tough. playing very limited minutes.

I stopped reading when you spouted the garbage that Reaves was useless here. His usage was useless. And so began a chain of stupid ass trades and usages.

 

[JRS91]

Minnesota is trying to get younger.

I highly doubt they'd want Kessel. I think your best bets are Las Vegas or Nashville.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Reaves wasn’t that good in St Louis 5 goals and 5 assists per 82 games is pretty ordinary (1 point in 36 playoff games). This is the first season he has been a good player.

 

[EightyOne]

Yeah, I'd trade him for the $6.8m back. Don't care if what we get with $6.8 is proven PPG, or even if it's a forward or D. Drop Maatta as well so this player will be good.

Phil doesn't help Malkin, doesn't help L3. Arguably doesn't help PP either. No use. Thanks for 2016, and to a lesser extent 2017.

When building a team you have to assume everyone is healthy for 82 games.

If everyone is healthy, the Pens don't NEED Kessel.

I too wouldn't mind going into a season with millions in cap space. JR could make moves in reaction to what happens with the Pens AND other teams during the season, instead of being handcuffed by cap restrictions.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Minnesota is trying to get younger.

I highly doubt they'd want Kessel. I think your best bets are Las Vegas or Nashville.

Vegas is probably not interested now due to cap issues next year. They are already over 82mil and need to sign Karlsson and a few depth pieces. I imagine Nashville still is though.

 

[Icarium]

Like I said, people can tell themselves whatever they want, but Reaves was misused by Sullivan.

Maybe but he was also useless. Many players are misused and still manage to contribute.

And this system BS excuse needs to stop. Most fourth lines around the league all play similar roles.

So how exactly was he misused then other than by cutting his playing time?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Reaves wasn’t that good in St Louis 5 goals and 5 assists per 82 games is pretty ordinary (1 point in 36 playoff games). This is the first season he has been a good player.

His last two seasons for in St Louis his line was one of the best for the Blues and constantly was put out there to help change momentum.

Reaves leads renovation of Blues' fourth line

Blues' fourth line provides the necessary punch in Game 2

Blues fourth line getting rewarded with more ice time

Blues 4th line continues to shine

Maybe but he was also useless. Many players are misused and still manage to contribute.

So how exactly was he misused then other than by cutting his playing time?

I want to know how the Blues and Knights system their fourth liners played was so different from the Pens.

Lots of people like yourself try to use this as an excuse for why Reaves didn’t play well as a Pen. So tell me how this system was so vastly different for the Pens fourth line... break it on down for me.

 

[Peat]

Vegas is probably not interested now due to cap issues next year. They are already over 82mil and need to sign Karlsson and a few depth pieces. I imagine Nashville still is though.

Yea. Vegas disappeared as an option the moment they took Stone. Unless you want to take back a lot of salary and get fleeced as part of the process.

 

[Tom Hanks]

His last two seasons for in St Louis his line was one of the best for the Blues and constantly was put out there to help change momentum.

Reaves leads renovation of Blues' fourth line

Blues' fourth line provides the necessary punch in Game 2

Blues fourth line getting rewarded with more ice time

Blues 4th line continues to shine



I want to know how the Blues and Knights system their fourth liners played was so different from the Pens.

Lots of people like yourself try to use this as an excuse for why Reaves didn’t play well as a Pen. So tell me how this system was so vastly different for the Pens fourth line... break it on down for me.

Reaves scored at a better rate here but gave up a lot of goals. He was better at preventing goals in St Louis but he had terrible line mates here. We had a pretty bad roster for the bottom 6 for a lot of last season. Reaves most common line mates were Kuhnhackl, Rowney and McKegg.

Still he’s always been a very average player his whole career until this season.

 

[IcedCapp]

Also @shoplifter ...I am 100% on board with bringing Hagelin back. IF we move on from Kessel, a team like Nashville being the target or whomever.

People keep mentioning Zucker, if people think that deal 1 for 1 is a good one for us, yikes. Just...yikes.

What works for me is if we do this:

To Minnesota:
Olli Maatta
Phil Kessel
Our 1st
Dominik Simon

To Pittsburgh:
Jonas Brodin
Minnesota's 2nd
Minnesota's 3rd
Jason Zucker
Kevin Fiala

To anywhere:

Maatta
Kessel

To Pittsburgh:

Freedom


Maybe throw in a side of Gudbranson just to be safe

 

[Icarium]

I want to know how the Blues and Knights system their fourth liners played was so different from the Pens.

Lots of people like yourself try to use this as an excuse for why Reaves didn’t play well as a Pen. So tell me how this system was so vastly different for the Pens fourth line... break it on down for me.

I didn't say anything about the system stopping Reaves from doing his best here. I am saying sometimes players don't work on a given team without this being the coach's fault. Maybe Reaves didn't like living Pittsburgh and loves it in Vegas. Maybe he had problems in his personal life. If the system is as similar as you claim, why did he look so dismal except for a handful of games? Having less ice time alone doesn't explain it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Reaves scored at a better rate here but gave up a lot of goals. He was better at preventing goals in St Louis but he had terrible line mates here. We had a pretty bad roster for the bottom 6 for a lot of last season. Reaves most common line mates were Kuhnhackl, Rowney and McKegg.

Still he’s always been a very average player his whole career until this season.

Hence why I keep saying he was misused. You don’t put him with ass linemates and play him a couple shifts a period like Sullivan did on many ocassions.

The Blues and Vegas didn’t use some crazy voodoo to create effective fourth lines with Reaves. Just common sense with his usage and effective linemates.

Pens had options in the A to build a good fourth line with Reaves, but Sullivan was enamored with the likes of Rowney and Kuhn.

Throw TB and Archibald with Reaves and whadda ya know...

 

[LittleSpoon]

I gotta go vomit a bit from these ridiculous evaluations of Kessel. Holy cow, ppl need to get a clue. Not every goal scored while he is on the ice is his fault. Not every turnover he makes is always his fault. Sometimes a player is placed in a bad situation, and may not make the perfect play if the support he was expecting isnt there. Guy is still a point per game player, but yea lets just dump the guy. I wish he wasnt afraid to body up a bit, but I appreciate the guy for what he is...an offensive threat, that can produce at any given moment. The recency bias against him is just disgusting. Would it be smart to trade him for value this summer? Yea, potentially, but if you think getting rid of a ppg player just for cap is reasonable, then I really think you straight have an agenda against the guy and dont understand that he fills a role on this team as do many others. People just look for a whipping boy when everything isnt smelling like roses, and its honestly embarrassing as a fan of this franchise to be associated with such idiocy. These same fans will claim hq does so much more than Kessel because he is willing to hit someone and play "great defense" but ignore that his passing sucks, he cant carry a play through any zone, and is just a great grinder in front of the net. I like Horny too, but I am just saying criticize fairly if you are to at all. A part of me hopes that everything you Kessel haters want comes true, so I can laugh when it inevitably turns into you whining about the new "asset" and his lack of "fit".

 

[Peat]

The recency bias against him is just disgusting.
...
These same fans will claim hq does so much more than Kessel because he is willing to hit someone and play "great defense" but ignore that his passing sucks, he cant carry a play through any zone, and is just a great grinder in front of the net. I like Horny too, but I am just saying criticize fairly if you are to at all. A part of me hopes that everything you Kessel haters want comes true, so I can laugh when it inevitably turns into you whining about the new "asset" and his lack of "fit".

Most people expressing criticism of Kessel have been expressing more or less the same thoughts for 18 months. There is very little recency bias here.

And many of them have also questioned Hornqvist's place on the team too.

 

[LittleSpoon]

Most people expressing criticism of Kessel have been expressing more or less the same thoughts for 18 months. There is very little recency bias here.

And many of them have also questioned Hornqvist's place on the team too.

If we are dating back 18 months and into a 92 point season for the guy, then I probably should not take those people seriously.

The theme I am seeing is pretty much, we didnt win three cups in a row. Kessel has to go. Good stuff. I didnt realize that I suddenly joined the Toronto Maple Leafs fans and media thread.