Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | GM Working the Phones Edition

[Peat]

Maatta's sample size of not being scored on is over 350 games worth of him not being scored on. I'm guessing you're talking about Cullen, but Cullen was on the ice for 10 goals against in his first 13 games on the year. If you want to go that route, you should be talking about Grant, not Cullen.

Gotta recognise a changing pattern. The guys bleeding all over the team then are not the same bleeding now (well, not always) and vice versa. Cullen's recent form is that of a helper to team defence.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Gotta recognise a changing pattern. The guys bleeding all over the team then are not the same bleeding now (well, not always) and vice versa. Cullen's recent form is that of a helper to team defence.

And Jack Johnson's recent form is someone who can perform decently well in a top pair role with Letang

I just don't agree and I don't consider Maatta and Cullen at all comparable in this discussion. Cullen has had a few good games in terms of not getting scored on after starting out the season horrendous, but he hasn't looked good recently. Maatta has been pretty consistently good at not being scored on for years.

 

[mpp9]

Trading one of your more effective guys on defense because he seems more valuable seems pretty foolish to me, especially when your defense is ass at not getting scored on.

Speculation: - A Ryan Miller trade could possibly be in the works

Hm, I wonder if this may be the shake up trade that Friedman was talking about. Miller is a guy you can easily run with as a starter if Murray continues to struggle.

We've always been a team that operates on the idea of spending less time in the offensive zone because we're never gonna be confused with a fundamentally sound defensive team.

Maatta doesn't get scored on alot. But he also doesn't help us break the puck out much or contribute offensively. The point is to outscore the other team.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Stop thinking "prime" of anything we had and start thinking "what we need to keep moving forward" and it'll be easier.

We don't need prime of anything we had because those guys don't work in today's NHL anymore.

Kasparaitis would be suspended every other game.
Kunitz running through people would be suspended or put us in a box all the time.
Stevens - maybe.
Coffey - We wish, hell why not give Prow a chance, not even the same, but Prow handles the puck with confidence and we need that.

You didn’t answer my question and get my point.

I’d like all those players I mentioned but I just don’t see them in anyone in the current NHL.

Who currently in the NHL fits the bill as a prime Kunitz?

Out of those people which ones are feasible to get?

 

[Empoleon8771]

We've always been a team that operates on the idea of spending less time in the offensive zone because we're never gonna be confused with a fundamentally sound defensive team.

Maatta doesn't get scored on alot. But he also doesn't help us break the puck out much or contribute offensively. The point is to outscore the other team.

And Maatta is consistently really good at that, seeing how he's a +55 in his career. If you want to bring up the point of "outscoring the other team", +/- is the stat to use, and Maatta is a really + player.

It's also comically false that he doesn't help the Penguins break out the puck or doesn't contribute offensively. Let's not make up problems about Maatta, his only problem is that he can't skate. If he could skate well, he'd be a flawless #2 or #3 defenseman. Maatta can move the puck well and has shown to be able to produce in the past. Hell, he's not even struggling to produce this year, he's on pace for 25 points on the year. His only problem is that he can't skate well.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Silfverberg seems like a RW to me so it'd be smart to take Rust away from Sullivan and fill a need on defense before it's doomed from the start.

I would really try to get Montour as well if Anaheim is our target.

Yes, Silfverberg is a nice get, plays a solid 2-way game with a lot of skill too, but Montour is also an absolute need even with or without Schultz. That 3rd pair can not be as bad as it always is with the RD side.

I am just curious what package it would take to land both - Rust, Maatta, (not our 1st) a pick, maybe Sprong and another prospect too?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You didn’t answer my question and get my point.

I’d like all those players I mentioned but I just don’t see them in anyone in the current NHL.

Who currently in the NHL fits the bill as a prime Kunitz?

Out of those people which ones are feasible to get?

Well, you can't find anyone because that type of game doesn't work in the NHL anymore is what I was saying. That's why you won't find any.

There are no Kasparaitis types anymore, the last Coffey type was Karlsson and he's an abomination right now, as for Stevens...nothing even remotely close to his kind of player in the last 20yrs let alone "right now."

And Kunitz, the guy played on the edge with his physical game, I think guys like him ended with him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Speculation: - Big names scouting Ducks (Leafs, Blues, Penguins, etc.)

Penguins sending their Director of Pro Scouting Derrick Clancey to the Ducks game. More smoke to the Pittsburgh-Anaheim fire.

 

[Tom Hanks]

On a team who's game is predicated on speed and defensemen making quick, smart, accurate first passes, Maatta is a square peg in a round hole.

Mattaa does make smart accurate first passes. Just not this year though. That’s the problem with him though if his brain isn’t working he’s a mess because of the skating issue.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And Maatta is consistently really good at that, seeing how he's a +55 in his career. If you want to bring up the point of "outscoring the other team", +/- is the stat to use, and Maatta is a really + player.

It's also comically false that he doesn't help the Penguins break out the puck or doesn't contribute offensively. Let's not make up problems about Maatta, his only problem is that he can't skate. If he could skate well, he'd be a flawless #2 or #3 defenseman. Maatta can move the puck well and has shown to be able to produce in the past. Hell, he's not even struggling to produce this year, he's on pace for 25 points on the year. His only problem is that he can't skate well.

I think you're downplaying some of Maatta's defensive issues as well, offensively, he has some smarts to his game, he definitely does, but oh man defensively sometimes he just makes you so angry and yeah skating is a big part of it, but so are some of his decisions.

I am curious how much of that +55 is that solid when you just look at the last 2yrs. What are his numbers with out scoring the opposition in the last 2yrs when the league really changed.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Who'd win in a game of 2 on 2? Zar/Wilson or Adams/Glass?

Make it a 3- bar tournament and throw in Kuhn and Rowney...

Proceeds go to um, The Center For Humans Helping Humans...

...buy a Nasty Nick final proof set

 

[Gurglesons]

If all we have to add is Sprong for Montour or Manson I’m down.

I would hope it is Manson.

He’s the exact type of player that could insulate Oleksiak.

 

[mpp9]

And Maatta is consistently really good at that, seeing how he's a +55 in his career. If you want to bring up the point of "outscoring the other team", +/- is the stat to use, and Maatta is a really + player.

It's also comically false that he doesn't help the Penguins break out the puck or doesn't contribute offensively. Let's not make up problems about Maatta, his only problem is that he can't skate. If he could skate well, he'd be a flawless #2 or #3 defenseman. Maatta can move the puck well and has shown to be able to produce in the past. Hell, he's not even struggling to produce this year, he's on pace for 25 points on the year. His only problem is that he can't skate well.

Really? Plus/minus?

Skating isn't a singular problem. It means he's not as good at breaking down a forecheck. He's not as capable breaking up a 2 on 1. Supporting a cycle. Turning a busted neutral zone play into an odd man advantage.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think you're downplaying some of Maatta's defensive issues as well, offensively, he has some smarts to his game, he definitely does, but oh man defensively sometimes he just makes you so angry and yeah skating is a big part of it, but so are some of his decisions.

I am curious how much of that +55 is that solid when you just look at the last 2yrs. What are his numbers with out scoring the opposition in the last 2yrs when the league really changed.

I agree, but somehow he doesn't get scored on. That's really the important thing. Maatta's +/- in the last 2 years has been mediocre, but it's not from him giving up many more goals. They scored a good bit fewer goals with him on the ice last year (which is odd, because he had a very productive year offensively), his GA numbers weren't much higher.

Really? Plus/minus?

Skating isn't a singular problem. It means he's not as good at breaking down a forecheck. He's not as capable breaking up a 2 on 1. Supporting a cycle. Turning a busted neutral zone play into an odd man advantage.

You brought up the point that the goal is to outscore the other team. That is what +/- is for, it shows goal differential. You want to say the goal is to outscore the other team? Well the Penguins consistently score more goals with Maatta on the ice than they give up goals. If you want to say that the goal is to outscore the other team, you're basically saying "I care about defensemen with a good +/-".

 

[Andy99]

I’d be surprised if ANA trades us Maatta for Montour especially since they’re down D men with Fowler injured...but what about Maatta for Trouba....Trouba doesn’t want to sign in Peg longterm and his contract is ending and Maatta is cost controlled for three more years...we could throw in something else if needed...

 

[Turin]

I’d be surprised if ANA trades us Maatta for Montour especially since they’re down D men with Fowler injured...but what about Maatta for Trouba....Trouba doesn’t want to sign in Peg longterm and his contract is ending and Maatta is cost controlled for three more years...we could throw in something else if needed...

Winnipeg is trying to win a Cup, they don’t need to shake up one of the best pairings in the league.

 

[66-30-33]

Trouba is worth a LOT more then Maatta lol.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’d be surprised if ANA trades us Maatta for Montour especially since they’re down D men with Fowler injured...but what about Maatta for Trouba....Trouba doesn’t want to sign in Peg longterm and his contract is ending and Maatta is cost controlled for three more years...we could throw in something else if needed...

Winni would be real dumb to do it.

If Friedman is right, I wouldn’t be surprised if the “lateral” move is Dumoulin for Manson. Rutherford would be moronic to do it, but if he likes Johnson and Maatta it would make sense for him to move out Dumo for a RD. And Manson is extremely similar.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Winni would be real dumb to do it.

If Friedman is right, I wouldn’t be surprised if the “lateral” move is Dumoulin for Manson.

That's not really a "lateral" move for the Penguins, that's just a downgrade. I'd say that Maatta for Manson is a lot more even in value than Dumoulin for Manson is I feel like, although it's kinda hard to gauge because I'm not sure what Manson exactly is.

Apparently Lindholm is on IR now too, so they're down both Fowler and Lindholm now.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's not really a "lateral" move for the Penguins, that's just a clear downgrade. I'd say that Maatta for Manson is a lot more even in value than Dumoulin for Manson is. JR consistently does really well with these 1 for 1 lateral moves, so I'm not sure why you think he's going to get reamed and trade Dumoulin for Manson.

Apparently Lindholm is on IR now too, so they're down both Fowler and Lindholm now.

Manson is pretty much the Ducks Dumoulin.

I think Manson you could argue is the better player honestly. Depends on how much you think Lindholm makes him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Winni would be real dumb to do it.

If Friedman is right, I wouldn’t be surprised if the “lateral” move is Dumoulin for Manson. Rutherford would be moronic to do it, but if he likes Johnson and Maatta it would make sense for him to move out Dumo for a RD. And Manson is extremely similar.

While I love Dumoulin, Manson is just as solid defensively but with more of an edge.

I don't know if I like that. I love the idea of a Dumoulin-Manson shut down pair, but man...I would absolutely hate to lose Dumo for Manson. Maybe it's because I love what Dumoulin brings to this team.

I would much rather lose Maatta over Dumo, but at this point, we're going to be losing players left and right because JR doesn't want to fire Sully and needs to make enough trades to realize the real problem...

So let it be.

It's going to be a looooong ass season.

 

[Turin]

Winni would be real dumb to do it.

If Friedman is right, I wouldn’t be surprised if the “lateral” move is Dumoulin for Manson. Rutherford would be moronic to do it, but if he likes Johnson and Maatta it would make sense for him to move out Dumo for a RD. And Manson is extremely similar.

JR would be basically be a confirmed washed up old bastard if he traded Dumo for anything besides a huge overpayment.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's not really a "lateral" move for the Penguins, that's just a downgrade. I'd say that Maatta for Manson is a lot more even in value than Dumoulin for Manson is I feel like, although it's kinda hard to gauge because I'm not sure what Manson exactly is.

Apparently Lindholm is on IR now too, so they're down both Fowler and Lindholm now.

Manson is a f***ing solid defenseman. For the Ducks to trade him would be odd, unless they really liked Maatta. I would wager we'd need to add to that deal to get Manson.

Montour makes more sense, he's mobile, decent defensively, just signed a big deal and hasn't been performing.

 

[Andy99]

Winni would be real dumb to do it.

If Friedman is right, I wouldn’t be surprised if the “lateral” move is Dumoulin for Manson. Rutherford would be moronic to do it, but if he likes Johnson and Maatta it would make sense for him to move out Dumo for a RD. And Manson is extremely similar.

Wow...I would not make this move...it’s just a lateral move...yes we need a RD while Schultz but this just keeps us in the same place...needing another PMD...Dumo is not the problem

 

[Gurglesons]

While I love Dumoulin, Manson is just as solid defensively but with more of an edge.

I don't know if I like that. I love the idea of a Dumoulin-Manson shut down pair, but man...I would absolutely hate to lose Dumo for Manson. Maybe it's because I love what Dumoulin brings to this team.

I would much rather lose Maatta over Dumo, but at this point, we're going to be losing players left and right because JR doesn't want to fire Sully and needs to make enough trades to realize the real problem...

So let it be.

It's going to be a looooong ass season.

I mean, we’d all like to see Maatta moved. But, what do you get except for a old UFA or a worse player / contract.

The argument is the Pens want to make a move to better their team. Jake and Dumo are really the only pieces we can send out to do that.