Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | GM Working the Phones Edition

[Jules Winnfield]

Honestly Silferberg doesn’t make sense unless it’s a larger deal. The issue is the Pens are still lopsided on the right side and our D still sucks without Schultz.

I can understand Maatta for Ritchie for both teams. Some of the other deals discussed I can’t understand why we do them or why the ducks do them.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wow...I would not make this move...it’s just a lateral move...yes we need a RD while Schultz but this just keeps us in the same place...needing another PMD...Dumo is not the problem

I love people like you.

Bitch constantly about the team, the structure, the coaching, the GM. People throw out ideas about what we can realistically move and you say “no way”.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Manson is pretty much the Ducks Dumoulin.

I think Manson you could argue is the better player honestly.

I rolled it back because I was taking it too far, but I still think it's a downgrade. It's hard to tell with him though, because is he a 15-20 point player or a 35-40 point player? He put up 36 points at ES last season when he had 33 ES points in his entire career before last year, what is he going forward?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean, we’d all like to see Maatta moved. But, what do you get except for a old UFA or a worse player / contract.

The argument is the Pens want to make a move to better their team. Jake and Dumo are really the only pieces we can send out to do that.

Moving either is taking this team down a very dumb and dark path just because this team isn't willing to admit the coaching issue is a problem and this is EXACTLY what I don't want to see happen.

 

[Gurglesons]

JR would be basically be a confirmed washed up old bastard if he traded Dumo for anything besides a huge overpayment.

Manson is a lateral player with better offensive prowess who insulates their top pairing with Lindholm.

 

[Gurglesons]

I rolled it back because I was taking it too far, but I still think it's a downgrade. It's hard to tell with him though, because is he a 15-20 point player or a 35-40 point player? He put up 36 points at ES last season when he had 33 ES points in his entire career before last year, what is he going forward?

That’s because they finally dropped Bieksa last year.

He’s a Dumo comparable. I don’t know if he’d fit with anyone on our roster the same way Dumo does with Letang. But, I can’t think of any other “lateral” move that makes sense.

 

[Turin]

Manson is a lateral player with better offensive prowess who insulates their top pairing with Lindholm.

I don’t doubt he’s good, I know he is, but Lindholm is like Dumo+++ in his own right. This team just seriously would have the worst left side without Dumo.

 

[Gurglesons]

Moving either is taking this team down a very dumb and dark path just because this team isn't willing to admit the coaching issue is a problem and this is EXACTLY what I don't want to see happen.

I’m not advocating for any trade involving them.

Just trying to make sense of Friedman’s “insights”. Which I do not think were even based in anything, but his own opinions.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That’s because the finally dropped Bieksa last year.

If he is what he was last year going forward, he's obviously better than Dumoulin. If he reverts back to what he was in 2015-2016 or 2016-2017, I'd say that Dumoulin is better than him. It's not a gamble I'd want to make with a defenseman who's actually performing this year, that's the big thing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I rolled it back because I was taking it too far, but I still think it's a downgrade. It's hard to tell with him though, because is he a 15-20 point player or a 35-40 point player? He put up 36 points at ES last season when he had 33 ES points in his entire career before last year, what is he going forward?

If we can get Manson for Dumoulin, I would try to get Silfverberg in that deal as well. If Rust + Dumoulin gets us Manson + Silfverberg, I'd probably say that's a win for us.

My heart breaks saying that and I will be buying a Ducks Rust jersey and probably start to watch that abomination of a team just to see Dumo and Rust. But so be it.

As much as people would hate it, that trade would make us a better team. Anaheim would also get a LD that they can use heavily to ease the usage on Fowler when he is back. That deal actually makes some sense.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Keep in mind also both the pens and ducks are in the same situation with cap space. They don’t have a lot. It’s basically going to be dollar in and dollar out if something happens.

 

[wheelz87]

Winni would be real dumb to do it.

If Friedman is right, I wouldn’t be surprised if the “lateral” move is Dumoulin for Manson. Rutherford would be moronic to do it, but if he likes Johnson and Maatta it would make sense for him to move out Dumo for a RD. And Manson is extremely similar.

IDGAF how much Rutherford 'likes' Maatta. If Dumo goes instead of Olli put a fork in us.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t doubt he’s good, I know he is, but Lindholm is like Dumo+++ in his own right. This team just seriously would have the worst left side without Dumo.

Agreed.

But, Rutherford from my perspective loves Maatta and Johnson. So, if you go from that perspective and see Johnson - Letang holding up and Maatta as being limited by our lack of RD. It starts to make a sad realistic sense.

 

[mpp9]

Why is Anaheim swapping D-men though? The idea is that they need to add one.

Although I'm down with the idea of swapping Dumoulin with a player who can provide a bit more offense and anchoring his own pairing. Dumoulin can do the latter but he's not a threat to score whatsoever.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why is Anaheim swapping D-men though? The idea is that they need to add one.

Although I'm down with the idea of swapping Dumoulin with a player who can provide a bit more offense and anchoring his own pairing. Dumoulin can do the latter but he's not a threat to score whatsoever.

Friedman’s “rumor” was basically that Murray and Rutherford are old school GMs looking to make a lateral move. I can’t see what else it would surround from our perspective outside of Dumo and Jake.

Just spitballing here. And I don’t think I’d do it as we’ve seen how good Dumo can be with the right partner.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean, we’d all like to see Maatta moved. But, what do you get except for a old UFA or a worse player / contract.

The argument is the Pens want to make a move to better their team. Jake and Dumo are really the only pieces we can send out to do that.

Say we got that deal, Silfverberg + Manson for Rust + Dumoulin...

That defense when Schultz is back, is finally where it should be, imo.

Johnson, Letang - Still not a fan of that top pair.
Maatta, Schultz
Oleksiak, Manson

That doesn't look too bad.

The forward group is more intriguing, I'd also want the ducks to throw in a pick though, a conditional for if Silf doesn't sign.

 

[Andy99]

I love people like you.

***** constantly about the team, the structure, the coaching, the GM. People throw out ideas about what we can realistically move and you say “no way”.

The point of a trade is to make the team better, not just shuffle different bodies around...this is my problem with JR too...I mean I hated the Hags-Pearson trade..not that Pearson is bad but just don’t see the message that was sending to send out our fastest, best PKer...we need PMD, we should be moving out a forward or a D that doesn’t fit our system, rather than one of our top 2 D

 

[Empoleon8771]

Keep in mind also both the pens and ducks are in the same situation with cap space. They don’t have a lot. It’s basically going to be dollar in and dollar out if something happens.

Manson and Dumoulin have the same exact cap hit, so your post unsettles me

If we can get Manson for Dumoulin, I would try to get Silfverberg in that deal as well. If Rust + Dumoulin gets us Manson + Silfverberg, I'd probably say that's a win for us.

My heart breaks saying that and I will be buying a Ducks Rust jersey and probably start to watch that abomination of a team just to see Dumo and Rust. But so be it.

As much as people would hate it, that trade would make us a better team. Anaheim would also get a LD that they can use heavily to ease the usage on Fowler when he is back. That deal actually makes some sense.

Dumoulin for Manson may be a 1 for 1 deal that makes sense if we're talking a 1 for 1 deal between the two, but I feel like that's a deal that neither side would want to make. The Ducks already have Fowler and Lindholm, so why trade for Dumoulin when those guys will be back eventually. On the flip side, Dumoulin has been performing great for the Penguins this year, so why would the Penguins want to move him for Manson? Manson does add some physicality, which is really nice, but it sacrifices some puck moving and skating talent for it. I'm not sure that's a move the Penguins should be making.

I'd rather just add whatever it takes on top of Maatta to get Montour. Maatta, Rust and Sprong for Montour and Cogliano? Sign me up.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Why is Anaheim swapping D-men though? The idea is that they need to add one.

Although I'm down with the idea of swapping Dumoulin with a player who can provide a bit more offense and anchoring his own pairing. Dumoulin can do the latter but he's not a threat to score whatsoever.

They lost Fowler, have a bunch of decent options on the right side, their left side is where they are struggling from what I was looking up.

They have 4 RHD on their team they can rotate through, their LD without Fowler is meh. Even with Fowler, that RD has more "Depth" from what I saw.

Unless I misunderstood.

 

[Gurglesons]

Manson and Dumoulin have the same exact cap hit, so your post unsettles me



Dumoulin for Manson may be a 1 for 1 deal that makes sense if we're talking a 1 for 1 deal between the two, but I feel like that's a deal that neither side would want to make. The Ducks already have Fowler and Lindholm, so why trade for Dumoulin when those guys will be back eventually. On the flip side, Dumoulin has been performing great for the Penguins this year, so why would the Penguins want to move him for Manson? Manson does add some physicality, which is really nice, but it sacrifices some puck moving and skating talent for it. I'm not sure that's a move the Penguins should be making.

I'd rather just add whatever it takes on top of Maatta to get Montour. Maatta, Rust and Sprong for Montour and Silfverberg? Sign me up.

I’d also say from the Ducks side if you are offering up Montour or Manson. Why are you not talking to Toronto?

 

[Gurglesons]

The point of a trade is to make the team better, not just shuffle different bodies around...this is my problem with JR too...I mean I hated the Hags-Pearson trade..not that Pearson is bad but just don’t see the message that was sending to send out our fastest, best PKer...we need PMD, we should be moving out a forward or a D that doesn’t fit our system, rather than one of our top 2 D

I mean, we literally won a cup in 15-16 by shuffling bodies around.

 

[Andy99]

I mean, we literally won a cup in 15-16 by shuffling bodies around.

But slower out, fast in...there was a purpose to it...not just “let me try your disappointing player on our team, and you take ours, and we’ll see if we can send a message to our team”

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’d also say from the Ducks side if you are offering up Montour or Manson. Why are you not talking to Toronto?

I'm not sure a Nylander trade is a move that Anaheim should be making, either. I'm not sure what that team should be doing in general, they've tied up a bunch of money and term to players in their mid-30s that aren't going to get any better. Kesler is 34, Getzlaf is 33 and Perry is 33, they're spending $23.75 million between those 3. I don't even think they could afford Nylander even if they wanted to.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Keep in mind also both the pens and ducks are in the same situation with cap space. They don’t have a lot. It’s basically going to be dollar in and dollar out if something happens.

Rust + Dumo for Silfverberg and Manson is like a wash cap hit wise. The Ducks maybe save 250k with the Rust for Silfverberg swap and that Rust is signed long term vs Silfverberg being a UFA that they might lose for nothing.

 

[Gurglesons]

But slower out, fast in...there was a purpose to it...not just “let me try your disappointing player on our team, and you take ours, and we’ll see if we can send a message to our team”

Manson produces goals. Dumo doesn’t.