Salary Cap: Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building X | Contract chart in post #1 | CAP SET AT $73M

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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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I just feel that it is quite a risk to keep him. What if he gets another concussion?

I'm not sure how or why more goalies don't have concussions, but Fleury just had a string of bad luck this year and it sucks, the guy is relatively healthy for the most part but this year was tough and he was having a very good year before his first concussion and then he had his second one and it ended up having someone else take the #1 job.

If they keep MAF, I don't see the health part being a risk more so than the fact that he might get out played by Murray and the 50/50 plan starts to go 60/40 in favor of Murray and Fleury wants out and the market is dried up.
 

IcedCapp

Registered User
Aug 7, 2009
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Doesn't really matter if it is or isn't. MAF either wants to be a starter somewhere or he doesn't - it's not like there's a bunch of options out there looking for #1 goalies.

Yeah, but that's not my point. Im interested in discussing the statement, "Fleury controls the entire process"
 

Jules Winnfield

Fleurymanbad
Mar 19, 2010
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MAF's options seem to be:

Pittsburgh
Calgary
Dallas

Darkhorse: Colorado

If he's crying about wanting to play then you can't have your cake and eat it too. Don't be a ***** then. Take the deal for whoever wants you. If JR has a deal in place from the Chinese Rikshaws in the Chinese Hockey League to be the starting goaltender and that's the only starting job that's available, he better get his ego in check and take the job or put it in perspective that he's going to have a roommate in goal with Murray for at least this season or till the TDL.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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I wish we had his list so at least the discussions won't be a team that has 2 goalies locked up, a team that doesn't want to spend to get MAF but will for a goalie that will almost kill their cap in a year, stay in Pittsburgh or potentially Colorado that has 2 decent young goalies that they'd rather have than Varlamov and Fleury there makes it more muddled.
 

Jules Winnfield

Fleurymanbad
Mar 19, 2010
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Yeah, but that's not my point. Im interested in discussing the statement, "Fleury controls the entire process"

But Fleury doesn't control the entire process. The thing is his ass doesn't control is which teams are interested in him.

If he's given the choice to choose between playing in such wonderful destinations as Calgary and Edmonton, his ass may choose to stay in Pittsburgh instead until something opens up during the year, till the TDL, or he's just made available for the expansion draft.

For example, last year would've been perfect as an in-season trade to send him to the Canadiens since Price was out for the year. Something like that could happen again.

Who knows? Varlamov could stomp on his girlfriend again or go back to the KHL where that type of thing is applauded. There might not be a market for MAF now but one could open up and it could make things more lucrative for the Pens by holding on to him and hedging their bets by doing so.

Worst case scenario we have two good goalies during the year. Best case, a contending team or two has a serious injury to a goaltender and then JR opens up his coat like he's hustling fake rolexes and says I got a shiny new MAF right here.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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I may have read that entire post back to myself in Jackson's voice.
 

IcedCapp

Registered User
Aug 7, 2009
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But Fleury doesn't control the entire process. The thing is his ass doesn't control is which teams are interested in him.

If he's given the choice to choose between playing in such wonderful destinations as Calgary and Edmonton, his ass may choose to stay in Pittsburgh instead until something opens up during the year, till the TDL, or he's just made available for the expansion draft.

For example, last year would've been perfect as an in-season trade to send him to the Canadiens since Price was out for the year. Something like that could happen again.

Who knows? Varlamov could stomp on his girlfriend again or go back to the KHL where that type of thing is applauded. There might not be a market for MAF now but one could open up and it could make things more lucrative for the Pens by holding on to him and hedging their bets by doing so.

Worst case scenario we have two good goalies during the year. Best case, a contending team or two has a serious injury to a goaltender and then JR opens up his coat like he's hustling fake rolexes and says I got a shiny new MAF right here.

For the record, I'm not the one who said Fleury controls the process.
 

shureshot66

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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Heard from another poster on HF that Rutherford said he hopes to be back next season with the Penguins. The deal was 2 years right not 3 yrs like some have said.
Rutherford sure sounds like he’ll be coming back as the general manager for at least one more season. The Penguins gave him a three-year contract in June of 2014. He has one season remaining on that deal.

“I’m working,” he said with a laugh. “I’m doing my job here moving forward. I haven’t sat down and made that final decision. It’s certainly heading in that direction, that I’ll continue on.”

http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2016/06/21/rutherford-fleury-hasnt-requested-trade/
 

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
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Yukon
Yeah, but that's not my point. Im interested in discussing the statement, "Fleury controls the entire process"

He doesn't. He can block 12 teams. That means there's (currently) 17 other teams he can be traded to where zero input or approval from him is required.

But again, that's moot, because the only reason he'd choose to leave here is if he wants to be a starter vs splitting starts with Murray. The team has a couple other reasons why it's likely in their interest that he's moved (cap, expansion draft, future/roster assets, etc). But even if the team wants to trade him, to some extent they'd still need his okay. However, that raises the other can of worms. We hear from players frequently that "if I'm not wanted, I'm not going to stay". About the only player that I can remember opposing that is Thornton who apparently said "if they don't want me, they can buy me out".

And then regardless of why he's getting moved, it still circles back to: there's only a limited number of places that have room for a 5.75m #1 goalie - even if we take back a goalie, don't get any assets and retain cap space... there's still only a very small handful of teams that are likely to take MAF. Which means if he wants to be a starter in the NHL, he pretty much has to accept to go wherever.

Something we've seen a trend of recently is GMs telling the agent to talk to other GMs about "finding a deal". I'm sure Rutherford would even go this far if MAF was reluctant about going to CGY. But are there really much for options out there other than CGY? It gets pretty limited pretty quickly.
 

Malkinstheman

Registered User
Aug 12, 2012
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Atleast we likely only have to wait 2 more days for a MAF trade. If calgary's seconds aren't traded then I dont know what else they have that would get a deal done.
 

WheresRamziAbid

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
7,240
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Well, it is still basically entirely Fleury's decision. Between his NMC and NTC, he's not going anywhere unless he's wants to.

He only has a12 team no trade so not really, obviously he has some pull in the matter but the could move him as long as someone wants him
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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Does Jim Rutherford retire, let's say after the draft, so that Botterill can move up to GM?

Maybe they interfere less with JR making the right moves. I feel like the team dictated so much of the stuff we hated after Shero left and when ownership meddles too much, it's never a good thing (Look at the Canucks right now for a prime example if anyone can't remember the Pens past).

MAF's options seem to be:

Pittsburgh
Calgary
Dallas

Darkhorse: Colorado

If he's crying about wanting to play then you can't have your cake and eat it too. Don't be a ***** then. Take the deal for whoever wants you. If JR has a deal in place from the Chinese Rikshaws in the Chinese Hockey League to be the starting goaltender and that's the only starting job that's available, he better get his ego in check and take the job or put it in perspective that he's going to have a roommate in goal with Murray for at least this season or till the TDL.

I honestly think it would be better to give Murray the #1 job and get a back-up, let him know that he is the future and the team is going to tap him as the go to guy and get him a guy that will help him as his back-up. Bales also now focusing more on him as the #1 is going to be fantastic as well.

For Fleury, there's a handful of teams that Fleury can go to and steal the job, I mean I get it, he's 32 and he's a guy that is more than well accomplished so he really shouldn't have to earn it at all I think. But I definitely think there is a market there that we aren't looking at.

Anaheim? I think Andersen only got moved because of the term he wanted which would mean he was the #1 for the future instead of Gibson, I think Fleury would be good there to push Gibson while being a very good safety blanket. I don't know if they are a team that will want to go after Johnson or Reimer and fall into a situation where Gibson isn't ready and the other two can't handle the load.

Buffalo? Fleury has a familiar face there in Bylsma also are the Sabres sold on Lehner? The guy seems to be injury prone and they definitely need a good back up solution, it's never good to be a ****** team with a stud player like Eichel and trying to lure guys like Vesey. You need to build a winner and he could be a target there, Murray could quietly be looking for a Plan B that could be a very good Plan A if need be. Sabres have a wealth of young talent that they can move and still be fine. Lehner is 25 in July, has never played more than 40 games since 2009-10 in the OHL.

If Dallas is an option, it has to be for Niemi and not Lehtonen that the Stars would have to dump off, Fleury can out duel Lehtonen easily (as well as Niemi) but with a cap hit of 4.5m/yr for another year after this, Niemi is the one I would want as a cap dump as it doesn't destroy the Pens cap situation with him there. Ideally, I'd want neither coming back and if the Stars can eat even 1m of that contract per year, that'd be ideal, the only enticing thing about the Stars as a trade option is the potential to get Nuke, that kid would be incredible on Malkin's wing, Geno might even have a little hop in his stride with a fellow countryman beside him. Although then that leaves Kunitz as Sid's LW again, barf. But if the deal was Fleury for Nuke + Niemi (up to 1m retained), I think I would take it.
 

Jules Winnfield

Fleurymanbad
Mar 19, 2010
8,919
1,963
Atleast we likely only have to wait 2 more days for a MAF trade. If calgary's seconds aren't traded then I dont know what else they have that would get a deal done.

They don't really have any players that are realistically available that I'd be interested in. They are a team outside of a few players that is filled with a bunch of meh.

Roll the dice and go with a non-protected 2017 1st round pick.
 

Jules Winnfield

Fleurymanbad
Mar 19, 2010
8,919
1,963
Maybe they interfere less with JR making the right moves. I feel like the team dictated so much of the stuff we hated after Shero left and when ownership meddles too much, it's never a good thing (Look at the Canucks right now for a prime example if anyone can't remember the Pens past).



I honestly think it would be better to give Murray the #1 job and get a back-up, let him know that he is the future and the team is going to tap him as the go to guy and get him a guy that will help him as his back-up. Bales also now focusing more on him as the #1 is going to be fantastic as well.

For Fleury, there's a handful of teams that Fleury can go to and steal the job, I mean I get it, he's 32 and he's a guy that is more than well accomplished so he really shouldn't have to earn it at all I think. But I definitely think there is a market there that we aren't looking at.

Anaheim? I think Andersen only got moved because of the term he wanted which would mean he was the #1 for the future instead of Gibson, I think Fleury would be good there to push Gibson while being a very good safety blanket. I don't know if they are a team that will want to go after Johnson or Reimer and fall into a situation where Gibson isn't ready and the other two can't handle the load.

Buffalo? Fleury has a familiar face there in Bylsma also are the Sabres sold on Lehner? The guy seems to be injury prone and they definitely need a good back up solution, it's never good to be a ****** team with a stud player like Eichel and trying to lure guys like Vesey. You need to build a winner and he could be a target there, Murray could quietly be looking for a Plan B that could be a very good Plan A if need be. Sabres have a wealth of young talent that they can move and still be fine. Lehner is 25 in July, has never played more than 40 games since 2009-10 in the OHL.

If Dallas is an option, it has to be for Niemi and not Lehtonen that the Stars would have to dump off, Fleury can out duel Lehtonen easily (as well as Niemi) but with a cap hit of 4.5m/yr for another year after this, Niemi is the one I would want as a cap dump as it doesn't destroy the Pens cap situation with him there. Ideally, I'd want neither coming back and if the Stars can eat even 1m of that contract per year, that'd be ideal, the only enticing thing about the Stars as a trade option is the potential to get Nuke, that kid would be incredible on Malkin's wing, Geno might even have a little hop in his stride with a fellow countryman beside him. Although then that leaves Kunitz as Sid's LW again, barf. But if the deal was Fleury for Nuke + Niemi (up to 1m retained), I think I would take it.

The problem with Anaheim is they will have the same exact situation we currently have if they take MAF.

I agree with you on Dallas. I'd want Niemi and Nuke for Fleury. They are rich as hell in wingers and can afford to let Nuke go to fill a position they've had trouble with for years.
 

SHOOTANDSCORE

Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
Sep 25, 2005
10,952
4,675
That's actually a mild concern.

Sounds like there are a lot of candidates, though. And Botterill's forte (cap management), while still important, isn't at the very top of the list for an expansion team.

I have to agree, though I think they'll still do their due diligence on him.

It has to be tough to build a good scouting staff from scratch. Whoever they put in charge of that has a nice challenge waiting. I think it would pay to find a guy that has been around for a while, and has a lot of contacts around the league
 
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