You say something like that to the press because you disagree with it or you want to make sure the fans know. Wtf
TBN: Sabres refusal to salute fans after wins confirmed-Harrington
- Thread starter Jimmybarndoor2
- Start date
Physically and mentally soft team, coach, and GM. Zero sympathy for a roster of kids that gets paid a lot with questionable effort. Kevyn, Donny, and Okposo all should go. Would also like to break up some of the super friends in the U25 age group if the return is right. Work hard, play hard, worry about being a rich 20 something and macking on girls on your own time.
At least in 2015 when Mike Weber complained about the fans cheering for Arizona at home, I somewhat understood and respected that that was just a really crummy roster who tried. They were just bad. This roster seems like it should be able to compete.
At least in 2015 when Mike Weber complained about the fans cheering for Arizona at home, I somewhat understood and respected that that was just a really crummy roster who tried. They were just bad. This roster seems like it should be able to compete.
HOOats
born Ruffian
That's a very good article by Harrington, who against all odds is having a bit of a late career renaissance. Here's my run at his word count.
I think the main takeaway is how much the team loves Granato. Despite the chants, he was never getting fired this season and he's not going to get fired this off-season. Plenty of taskmasters here think ripping away a beloved coach from the youngest team in the league would be a wake-up call, but it would more likely be a disaster. They don't have the individual gumption to handle it yet and you can't fast-forward developing that via locker room trauma. That's how you lose guys permanently. Some would say this is already a disaster, but recent history has plenty of perspective to offer on what that actually looks like. This is just maddeningly mediocre.
What pisses me off is it's fine and even good to be loyal to your coach and angry when he's disrespected, but rally around him then. Give sustained, exaggerated effort to prove that this project of his is indeed worth supporting. Okposo and the boys don't get to express righteous indignation when they hammer Toronto but then go right back to bad starts and shitty home games.
It's easier to ship out a coach than a key player, but it's impossible to swap out the fans. They're the foundation of a franchise, the one constant. They're the leaders and bosses, not the owner, or at least that's how it should be. (The old Marxist axiom, "all ownership value is derived from ticket, beer, and jersey sales.")
Unfortunately, due to the psychic damage inflicted over the last dozen years, we have awful fans now and I fear it's somehow seeping into the on-ice results. We didn't used to, but we do now. A lot of the good ones are checked out or sadly deceased. The remainder are largely jaded and clueless re: happenings on-ice and in the front office. Average Joe fans still think Casey is underwhelming and that goaltending has been a problem this year. We don't even know how to boo - down 2-1 to Seattle was indeed ridiculous and players were right to be pissed. "The beatings will continue until morale improves" is intended to be sarcastic, not an actual pedagogic philosophy.
While Bills games are celebratory rituals win or lose, Sabres games have turned into pits of negativity where expectations of flat efforts and losses have become predictive if not causal. I bet players would tell us that if they were brave enough to be honest. It's definitely been hinted at. Fans show up after work seemingly just to project some exacting revenge onto their exacting bosses by bitching at the Sabres. "Just win," as if anything were that simple and Al Davis wasn't a buffoon. And when they aren't doing that, the building is dead silent. Gone are the days of working class crowds blowing off steam at a rowdy Aud. Now it's mostly "professionals" with zero attention span raised on guaranteed victory Marvel movies who short circuit when the soft good guys lose for the 13th year in a row. And who am I to tell them they're wrong? (A long-winded asshole I suppose
)
TLDR: the franchise is damaged - fans, management, players. The solution is always on the ice, effort manifesting success rewarded with support. We saw it begin to emerge last year, so we know it's possible. It got people's hopes up only to be dashed. For a team with such a strong alumni group, maybe they need to have a sit-down with the current guys. Explain where we've been, how we got to where we are now, and where we can get back to. Okposo and Co's lack of perspective and performance is risking the fanbase becoming permanently unmoored from the franchise, which is rather unprecedented and dangerous as far as these things go.
I think the main takeaway is how much the team loves Granato. Despite the chants, he was never getting fired this season and he's not going to get fired this off-season. Plenty of taskmasters here think ripping away a beloved coach from the youngest team in the league would be a wake-up call, but it would more likely be a disaster. They don't have the individual gumption to handle it yet and you can't fast-forward developing that via locker room trauma. That's how you lose guys permanently. Some would say this is already a disaster, but recent history has plenty of perspective to offer on what that actually looks like. This is just maddeningly mediocre.
What pisses me off is it's fine and even good to be loyal to your coach and angry when he's disrespected, but rally around him then. Give sustained, exaggerated effort to prove that this project of his is indeed worth supporting. Okposo and the boys don't get to express righteous indignation when they hammer Toronto but then go right back to bad starts and shitty home games.
It's easier to ship out a coach than a key player, but it's impossible to swap out the fans. They're the foundation of a franchise, the one constant. They're the leaders and bosses, not the owner, or at least that's how it should be. (The old Marxist axiom, "all ownership value is derived from ticket, beer, and jersey sales.")
Unfortunately, due to the psychic damage inflicted over the last dozen years, we have awful fans now and I fear it's somehow seeping into the on-ice results. We didn't used to, but we do now. A lot of the good ones are checked out or sadly deceased. The remainder are largely jaded and clueless re: happenings on-ice and in the front office. Average Joe fans still think Casey is underwhelming and that goaltending has been a problem this year. We don't even know how to boo - down 2-1 to Seattle was indeed ridiculous and players were right to be pissed. "The beatings will continue until morale improves" is intended to be sarcastic, not an actual pedagogic philosophy.
While Bills games are celebratory rituals win or lose, Sabres games have turned into pits of negativity where expectations of flat efforts and losses have become predictive if not causal. I bet players would tell us that if they were brave enough to be honest. It's definitely been hinted at. Fans show up after work seemingly just to project some exacting revenge onto their exacting bosses by bitching at the Sabres. "Just win," as if anything were that simple and Al Davis wasn't a buffoon. And when they aren't doing that, the building is dead silent. Gone are the days of working class crowds blowing off steam at a rowdy Aud. Now it's mostly "professionals" with zero attention span raised on guaranteed victory Marvel movies who short circuit when the soft good guys lose for the 13th year in a row. And who am I to tell them they're wrong? (A long-winded asshole I suppose
)TLDR: the franchise is damaged - fans, management, players. The solution is always on the ice, effort manifesting success rewarded with support. We saw it begin to emerge last year, so we know it's possible. It got people's hopes up only to be dashed. For a team with such a strong alumni group, maybe they need to have a sit-down with the current guys. Explain where we've been, how we got to where we are now, and where we can get back to. Okposo and Co's lack of perspective and performance is risking the fanbase becoming permanently unmoored from the franchise, which is rather unprecedented and dangerous as far as these things go.
Dubi Doo
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2008
- 19,441
- 12,926
I wouldn't mind Girgs back. I was hoping Tuch, EJ, and Clifton would be some nice leadership, but it hasn't come to fruition. Tuch has especially been a big time disappointment this year. He was the heart and soul of this team last year. But he, like a few other core players, has regressed this year.
The fish rots from the head.
Husko
Registered User
Starts with the owner, who seemingly is fine with this being the long term trajetory.
Husko
Registered User
One of the best things McDermott ever did was when he arrived he said he owned the drought. He's the coach now and it's on him and he accepts it. He promptly broke the drought, but fans adored him owning it.
This is the opposite of that.
(And yes, saluting the fans is dumb, but the pettiness is worse)
This is the opposite of that.
(And yes, saluting the fans is dumb, but the pettiness is worse)
The 2nd youngest team in the league acting petulant. Heh. Who'd a thunk it?
sabresfan129103
1-4-6-14
I didn't even know they stopped doing this, but I haven't hardly watched the team since mid-December. I always thought the salute was kind of dumb, so this doesn't really matter to me. Granted, I'm not the one going to games spending my hard earned money and I refuse to give this organization a dime anyways, so I'm not the one they should be worried about.
MOGlLNY
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2008
- 11,243
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If this player gave him the go ahead to print this as long as he was anonymous (it’s super obvious it’s Okposo just based on the quote) it seems like it’s fine.
MeenOlViks
Registered User
- May 25, 2015
- 350
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Dubi Doo
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2008
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- 12,926
It's worrisome how bad the culture appears to be in that lockerroom. McD shifted the culture from day 1. Kyle Williams was mic'd up in 2017, and saluted McD for the shift in the culture he brought. And it's still strong today. That team goes to war for him, and they also take the fans pettiness in stride because there were times this year where the fans acted like toddlers.
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
A sane organization would be doing everything they could to douse this PR disaster such as read the players the riot act behind closed doors and make them issue a collective apology. This is not a sane organization.
The whole vibes thing only works if actions are taken to support the players being able to continue to improve - i.e. improvements to the roster. That didn't happen.
A team that has been okay with their fans sitting in bird shit for years isn't all that interested in those fans.
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
- 35,563
- 11,303
Player salute should only be done in playoffs or if you clinch a playoff spot
Fi-re Don-ny! *clap*clap*clapclapclap*
MOGlLNY
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2008
- 11,243
- 10,574
This is going to get very ugly I think
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Every time I see someone post this in the thread it throws me into a fit of violent uncontrollable rage because it 100% misses the entire point.
it absolutely is a country club atmosphere and has been since Pegula bought the team
soft on the kids is a symptom of the larger issue
- Jun 15, 2010
- 943
- 976
I try to see both sides of every issue. Here I see the two sides blaming each other for their misery instead of taking responsibility for their role in perpetuating that misery.
Did the fans cause the drought? Obviously not. But if the fans had packed the house every night this year, been loud, positive, and supportive even when setbacks happened, it surely could have helped avoid the results we've seen.
Justified or not, empty seats, lukewarm support, and immediately booing and questioning the character of everyone involved at the first sign of adversity only made it harder for the team to overcome that adversity.
On the team side, we've discussed to death all the errors and problems with their approach to this season. No point in repeating them here. Much of the criticism of the team is absolutely justified and they need to own that and do better.
Although I'm not real excited about attending the game I have tickets to in March, I'm going to show up with a good attitude and try to be vocal in my support of the team. That's what I can do to contribute to turning this shit show around.
Did the fans cause the drought? Obviously not. But if the fans had packed the house every night this year, been loud, positive, and supportive even when setbacks happened, it surely could have helped avoid the results we've seen.
Justified or not, empty seats, lukewarm support, and immediately booing and questioning the character of everyone involved at the first sign of adversity only made it harder for the team to overcome that adversity.
On the team side, we've discussed to death all the errors and problems with their approach to this season. No point in repeating them here. Much of the criticism of the team is absolutely justified and they need to own that and do better.
Although I'm not real excited about attending the game I have tickets to in March, I'm going to show up with a good attitude and try to be vocal in my support of the team. That's what I can do to contribute to turning this shit show around.
OkimLom
Registered User
- May 3, 2010
- 15,289
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it Absolutely could/should work in NHL hockey where you have players playing in cities for years, starting families and staying/living in said communities longer than they play in minor and college hockey. If there’s a league where players connect with fans, it’s the NHL.
OkimLom
Registered User
- May 3, 2010
- 15,289
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It’s tough for me to have sympathy for the players when they are more likely to show up to their games 20 mins late.
You literally have a recent example from another sports team, in the same city you play for, of what to do when your coach is caught in the crosshairs of the outside voices. You don’t complain about the noise publicly, you rally around your coach, buy more into what the coach asks of you, and you come to work for that coach and do everything you can to win.
You literally have a recent example from another sports team, in the same city you play for, of what to do when your coach is caught in the crosshairs of the outside voices. You don’t complain about the noise publicly, you rally around your coach, buy more into what the coach asks of you, and you come to work for that coach and do everything you can to win.
