Sabres Name Terry Pegula Team President

[Gras]

Well. Living in Florida 51% of the time is his choice to put lifestyle/wealth over everything else, so no credit/respect there. Two covid seasons sure, which is why I asked about the last five. Also I imagine owners could have had special access to watch their teams during that time. Kim's health issues arose in June 2022, so that only covers last season.

He has been relatively invisible as an owner, and his "fandom" is entirely uninspiring and more and more appears cover for plain, cold business (which is why I'm paying attention to the "close to" part in "close to nil chance he sells the team.")

Well-thought out stuff.

I say massively profitable because there are few businesses available that someone can park billions of dollars in, become the sole controller of, linked to such a strong brand, with a guarantee of no new competition/dilution, and unquestioned potential income/appreciation. I do think an annual dividend of 6-7% on $1.4 billion with zero risk of underperformance is an investment that most everyone would be interested in. And the NFL is a secure enough vessel that while yes, there's no profit until a capital event, there's also no chance that the $4 billion valuation disappears or even decreases. If it did, it would be because of something like WW3 and we'd all have much larger things to worry about than whether the cash in a fracking mobster's pocket is real or virtual.

Do you know whether NFL owners can borrow against the value of their franchise to free up capital to invest elsewhere? Or is selling a portion to a minority owner at the current valuation the only way to unlock funds? I could see the NFL being pretty strict on that type of transaction.

Your factory example is interesting. The main difference I see is that unlike independent factory owners, NFL owners are "obligated" to build in the sense that they are required to provide or arrange a suitable venue for their team to host NFL games in, at the behest of the other 31 franchises they profit-share with. The Bills have already done the "more economical repair" twice over and are only building now because they have exhausted that avenue. As you said, like many businesses with significant infrastructure, teams facing a major capital project will often look to sell or relocate, with the result usually being new subsidies that quiet those options.

And I say it's "the least they can do" because I agree, the Pegula's will likely recoup all of their own stadium expenditure within a couple years (while also, more importantly, renewing their "right" to be a part of the NFL cabal of guaranteed profits/appreciation for another 50 years).

If I was in his shoes I'd do whatever it took to minimize my overall tax birder, hell even Jeter made FL his residence when he played for the Yankees to help minimize his taxes.

 

[drew5580]

Tim Graham is the best investigative journalist in this city.

I’m sure he is. But i promise you, it’s not “nil”

 

[wunderpanda]

this makes it seem like kim hasn't recovered, have there been updates?

 

[jd1970]

NHL constitution says your territory is 50 miles around the outer edge of your existing territory. It doesn't speak to whether that territorial control extends through an international boundary. The Sabres could move to the Niagara region in the Ontario side -- which has a population base of close to 500,000 and higher per capita income -- and likely not need the league or the Leafs' permission. I doubt this will ever happen, but from what I've read, the agreement to keep the team in Buffalo has expired. I think there is little question that a team in Souther Ontario is much much more money. And would be far more successful selling tickets. Personally, I love going to Buffalo even though the border is unpredictable.



Third last in the league in payroll. Maybe he saved $1 M from all these people. Keep telling yourself, that he doesn't pinch pennies. I wonder if he paid out vacation time for these people. Likely not if not legally required.

The last thing the NHL wants or needs is another team in Canada

 

[Irie]

The Sabres could move to the Niagara region in the Ontario side -- which has a population base of close to 500,000 and higher per capita income -- and likely not need the league or the Leafs' permission.

Wait... what?

Correct me if I am wrong, but any relocation in the league requires a majority approval from the league's board of governors, which would mean 17 owners have to approve the move.

If the league doesn't want the Sabres to move, they likely aren't moving.

Often when a team wants to move, the other owners extort the owner trying to move and the city they want to move to for huge amounts of cash. If he was thinking about moving across the border, I have heard rumors of a 400-500 million dollar relocation fee (for reference).

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

The last thing the NHL wants or needs is another team in Canada

Wait... what?

Correct me if I am wrong, but any relocation in the league requires a majority approval from the league's board of governors, which would mean 17 owners have to approve the move.

If the league doesn't want the Sabres to move, they likely aren't moving.

Often when a team wants to move, the other owners extort the owner trying to move and the city they want to move to for huge amounts of cash. If he was thinking about moving across the border, I have heard rumors of a 400-500 million dollar relocation fee (for reference).

That was my point. It wouldn’t be a relocation… they would have to be moving within their territory. The NHL doe not want any team moving. I think there is mostly no chance of it happening unless a new ownership group came in. And even then. Buffalo is essentially grandfathered, thankfully, as an NHL city. There is almost zero chance the city would get a team today. Just too tiny market. It comes close to working because the town is more engaged with the team than almost every team in the league but the pie is small.
As for Canada, the biggest market underserved by the NHL is the fanbase underserved by the Greater Toronto Area having one team.
Without question the GTA could have a second team but until MLSE is allowed to own two teams (LOL) it won’t happen.
Personally, i would put a team in northeast Toronto (limits damage to Buffalo) and i would make it palatable to MLSE by giving the organization continuous royalties in perpetuity.

 

[Irie]

That was my point. It wouldn’t be a relocation… they would have to be moving within their territory. The NHL doe not want any team moving. I think there is mostly no chance of it happening unless a new ownership group came in. And even then. Buffalo is essentially grandfathered, thankfully, as an NHL city. There is almost zero chance the city would get a team today. Just too tiny market. It comes close to working because the town is more engaged with the team than almost every team in the league but the pie is small.
As for Canada, the biggest market underserved by the NHL is the fanbase underserved by the Greater Toronto Area having one team.
Without question the GTA could have a second team but until MLSE is allowed to own two teams (LOL) it won’t happen.
Personally, i would put a team in northeast Toronto (limits damage to Buffalo) and i would make it palatable to MLSE by giving the organization continuous royalties in perpetuity.

Ok, I see what you meant, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Misunderstanding aside, just because that area of Ontario technically falls within the Sabres territory by a rules committee definition does not mean that the same area does not belong to Toronto by the same definition.

I think if you get out your map and circular compass, you are going to see that the two teams share nearly half of their territory with each other.

I am pretty sure that moving anywhere into Ontario within Buffalo's territory would require a bank breaking relocation fee and a herculean negotiating effort from the Board of Governors as Toronto would have veto power.

 

[TehDoak]

Re: The Pegulas aren't going to sell the team, at least at this juncture.

A few reasons why:

1. There is a clause in the last sale that prevents the Pegulas from moving the team or selling to an owner that would move the team (and I believe to the owner after that) Not that it would be a realistic option for the Pegulas given the vitriol it would cause its bigger investment, the Bills.
2. The Sabres are in a 27 year old area that hasn't had a major refresh as of yet. Any new owner would be on the hook for that. Likely a 50M+ investment, at a minimum.
3. The Sabres are bleeding cash year after year. Even if we became a model franchise, it's doubtful they'd make any money year over year.
4. Combine these with fact the NHL defends franchise value, there is a 'minimal acceptable' rate that the NHL would accept for a sale. Likely larger than the 650M that the Kraken paid for an expansion fee.

Even if the Pegulas wanted to sell the team, finding a match would be difficult.

My guess is any sale of the team is probably tied to the the ability for the teams owners to get public money for a new arena. Given the Bills just basically just tapped that vein dry for their. new stadium, it isn't something we will see for a bit.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Ok, I see what you meant, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Misunderstanding aside, just because that area of Ontario technically falls within the Sabres territory by a rules committee definition does not mean that the same area does not belong to Toronto by the same definition.

I think if you get out your map and circular compass, you are going to see that the two teams share nearly half of their territory with each other.

I am pretty sure that moving anywhere into Ontario within Buffalo's territory would require a bank breaking relocation fee and a herculean negotiating effort from the Board of Governors as Toronto would have veto power.

It’s a moot point because it won’t happen but international borders are not mentioned or state borders. I don’t think any of the New York area teams could be denied moving within the metro area. I’m guessing the NHL does have technical say on what arenas you use and can cause issues. Bettman runs a tight ship— and he’s tough in court. Nobody challenges him. So even if Buffalo had a strong legal argument to move to the Ontario side, any owner would be nuts to challenge Gary. He rules with an iron fist. He’s the reason Buffalo has a team. No idea why fans boo him, even though it’s tradition. He saved the Sabres more than anyone.

Re: The Pegulas aren't going to sell the team, at least at this juncture.

A few reasons why:

1. There is a clause in the last sale that prevents the Pegulas from moving the team or selling to an owner that would move the team (and I believe to the owner after that) Not that it would be a realistic option for the Pegulas given the vitriol it would cause its bigger investment, the Bills.
2. The Sabres are in a 27 year old area that hasn't had a major refresh as of yet. Any new owner would be on the hook for that. Likely a 50M+ investment, at a minimum.
3. The Sabres are bleeding cash year after year. Even if we became a model franchise, it's doubtful they'd make any money year over year.
4. Combine these with fact the NHL defends franchise value, there is a 'minimal acceptable' rate that the NHL would accept for a sale. Likely larger than the 650M that the Kraken paid for an expansion fee.

Even if the Pegulas wanted to sell the team, finding a match would be difficult.

My guess is any sale of the team is probably tied to the the ability for the teams owners to get public money for a new arena. Given the Bills just basically just tapped that vein dry for their. new stadium, it isn't something we will see for a bit.

It’ll be a more than $50 M

 

[sabremike]

In the past quarter century only one team has been relocated (Atlanta) and that only happened because they literally got kicked out of their arena and there was no other option. The oldest club in history to be relocated was the North Stars who were 25 years old at the time of their demise (less than half as old as the Sabres). Tom Dundon was allowed to buy the Canes after he essentially agreed he would be allowed to relocate the team on the 10th of never.

 

[Irie]

Bettman runs a tight ship— He’s the reason Buffalo has a team. No idea why fans boo him

Likely FoxTrax.

I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but that is the reason I boo him....

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Likely FoxTrax.

I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but that is the reason I boo him....

Because he saved the team?

In the past quarter century only one team has been relocated (Atlanta) and that only happened because they literally got kicked out of their arena and there was no other option. The oldest club in history to be relocated was the North Stars who were 25 years old at the time of their demise (less than half as old as the Sabres). Tom Dundon was allowed to buy the Canes after he essentially agreed he would be allowed to relocate the team on the 10th of never.

My point is it wouldn't be a relocation but a new arena within your territory. I still don't think the NHL would allow it in Ontario without a fight. Even if they just moved the team to St. Catharines which they wouldn't.

 

[Yultron]

this makes it seem like kim hasn't recovered, have there been updates?

Kim was recently at a Bills practise in a limo . Don’t know what that means but at least she is slowly making it out to the outside world in her recovery

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Kim was recently at a Bills practise in a limo . Don’t know what that means but at least she is slowly making it out to the outside world in her recovery

Unfortunately, seems highly unlikely she will get back to high functioning. Very sad.

 

[Yultron]

Unfortunately, seems highly unlikely she will get back to high functioning. Very sad.

We don’t know that yet , god for bid I pray that’s not the case

 

[BFLO]

It was announced Monday that Pegula Sports and Entertainment, the umbrella company that oversaw all of the family’s non-petroleum businesses, was dissolving. The Buffalo Bills will be handled by only Bills employees. The Sabres will be handled by only Sabres employees.

Except for Pegula serving as president and John Roth as the COO of both clubs.

“Terry is extremely excited about the Sabres,” Roth said. “He loves this team. He’s fired up. He’s investing his own money in this roster and the arena. I think you can tell by his actions how highly supportive he is of the organization.”

Roth said Pegula will pay for a new KeyBank Center roof, upgrade the acoustics and replace the video scoreboard.



………An unspoken aspect of this series of business moves is how decisively Terry Pegula and Roth have come to the conclusion Kim Pegula’s biggest business ideas have proven unviable. Unable to work after a debilitating cardiac arrest last year, her creations and closest allies continue to vanish from the company.

Kim Pegula was the driving force behind PSE’s creation.

Good link.

After reading this I think its pretty clear that this restructure is an acknowledgment that Kim will never fully recover.

PSE was Kim's passion project. She wanted to be a CEO/President that grew a vast sports and entertainment empire.

PSE is now being dissolved. = Kim is not going to recover to the point of being able to run PSE.

Terry doesn't care about running or growing a sports and entertainment empire, he just wants to run his sports teams.

I don't think it indicates anything else substantial.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

In the past quarter century only one team has been relocated (Atlanta) and that only happened because they literally got kicked out of their arena and there was no other option. The oldest club in history to be relocated was the North Stars who were 25 years old at the time of their demise (less than half as old as the Sabres). Tom Dundon was allowed to buy the Canes after he essentially agreed he would be allowed to relocate the team on the 10th of never.

I like to imagine the league-wide outrage if anyone tried moving ‘em. It’s one thing to move the goddamn Thrashers, but everyone has some sorta Sabres-related nostalgia or whatever, and they knows we’s good fans.

Anyways, sad if this relates to Kim’s health. Hope she’s doing as well as possible.