A GM can prefer younger players under team control (don't most?) but that doesn't mean every move has to be for those players. If you can't get the players you want and still have holes to fill, I don't mind the cheap route and acquiring pending UFAs for next to nothing.
I agree with you about Ristolainen. I didn't want to trade him before, and now he's showing many armchair GMs why. Fun times would be to re-post all the "Risto for garbage", "addition by subtraction" posts. It would be ten pages of proof why posters aren't as smart as they portray themselves around here.
Hutton isn't ruining this team's season. They have other problems, and Krueger has limited his starts in favor of another player (Ullmark) that fans wanted to ship out for pennies back in Oct-Nov.
As for Miller, Botterill traded for him first. He didn't have Jokiharju and Ristolainen was grumbling. The trade itself wasn't bad - it certainly filled a need at the time, and the Jokiharju trade has to happen under any circumstance, despite the Miller trade. Botterill hasn't found a better remedy for the RHD logjam since though, and that probably chalks up to cap issues around the league. He might want to save Miller for a bigger trade in the summer (the kind that gets the player he wants, not the cheap route), if he indeed wants to keep Risto and Montour (which he should).
I'm sure relative in-action around the TDL, other than trading a few pending UFAs, will further infuriate fans. Next summer is the litmus test for me. Intentional or not, specifically waiting for that time period or simply waiting on other GMs to be more flexible, next summer is shaping up to be the time for Botterill to make big moves. Obviously he can't go into next season with no significant upgrades at FW, and the organization can't afford trading away 1st rd picks either.
Refreshing to see such a sensible, logical post. It's a rarity on this forum these days.
So much easier to go the 'omgz!!111 Botts suxxx' route I guess....
Well done Sir.
The desired path was to get forward help, particularly a middle 6 center.
Botts could have done that by trading for Haula instead of Miller. Risto wouldn’t have to get traded and Miller wouldn’t have to sit because he wouldn’t be here.
It’s amazing how much the better the offseason would have looked with that one simple change.
What's amazing is the failiure to acknowledge that the Joker trade hadn't happened at that point while there was white hot speculation Risto had requested a trade & was about to be shipped out.
Thankfully the former happened while the latter didn't.
I didn't actually like the Miller acquisition in terms of the actual player... albeit the value was still great. But it was a trade which made all the sense in the world at the time.
The outcome of the Vesey deal was predicted by most... But even that was a very low risk move given what was given up & the term on Veseys contract. Would have been nice to get one of those other guys instead but you can't trade for everyone.
Botterill and Krueger in every single interview over the summer were worried about not having enough defenseman to start the season, and then in pre-season they had unexpected injuries. Yet Botterill plugged that hole, which was more important than 2C in priority, in excess, and hit home runs with his gambles and turned it into a strength.What's amazing is the failiure to acknowledge that the Joker trade hadn't happened at that point while there was white hot speculation Risto had requested a trade & was about to be shipped out.
Thankfully the former happened while the latter didn't.
I didn't actually like the Miller acquisition in terms of the actual player... albeit the value was still great. But it was a trade which made all the sense in the world at the time.
The outcome of the Vesey deal was predicted by most... But even that was a very low risk move given what was given up & the term on Veseys contract. Would have been nice to get one of those other guys instead but you can't trade for everyone.
Botterill and Krueger in every single interview over the summer were worried about not having enough defenseman to start the season, and then in pre-season they had unexpected injuries. Yet Botterill plugged that hole, which was more important than 2C in priority, in excess, and hit home runs with his gambles and turned it into a strength.
This is what a good GM does in an off-season. Given the cap, et. al. he had to choose one hole to stuff and one to patch and he chose defense first and patched the center position.
People talk like Botterill won't make moves, but he did multiple to fix our defense with both prospects and NHL caliber players. So much so the raging fans take it for granted now, which I find hilarious. It was so easy to come into this season having to depend on Bogosian to be healthy to keep Nelson out of the daily line-up
I was referring to the Joker trade, pardon the pre-coffee lack of contextThe Miller trade was a home run?
He gave up a 2nd and a 5th for a guy that has been either a healthy scratch or a non-factor for most of this season.
Your definition of a home run and mine are quite different.
Certainly the Nylander for Joker trade was a home run.
The Miller trade looks like a weak ground out to third.
Botterill and Krueger in every single interview over the summer were worried about not having enough defenseman to start the season, and then in pre-season they had unexpected injuries. Yet Botterill plugged that hole, which was more important than 2C in priority, in excess, and hit home runs with his gambles and turned it into a strength.
Given the cap situation that HE CREATED. Even with that, he constructed a roster that was bloated in a position while struggling to receive consistent secondary scoring from our forwards, which in turned pissed off players due to limited playing time. His cap work has been atrocious.This is what a good GM does in an off-season. Given the cap, et. al. he had to choose one hole to stuff and one to patch and he chose defense first and patched the center position.
People talk like Botterill won't make moves, but he did multiple to fix our defense with both prospects and NHL caliber players. So much so the raging fans take it for granted now, which I find hilarious. It was so easy to come into this season having to depend on Bogosian to be healthy to keep Nelson out of the daily line-up. Instead we have all of our defenseman except Bogosian playing better than they were before, except Miller who was the new guy struggling to play without a dedicated partner (hard thing to scout). We actually turned Scandella into a positive asset! Heroics. The type of things not a single stats guy would've ever considered possible given how Scandella looked in their metrics.
What's amazing is the failiure to acknowledge that the Joker trade hadn't happened at that point while there was white hot speculation Risto had requested a trade & was about to be shipped out.
Thankfully the former happened while the latter didn't.
I didn't actually like the Miller acquisition in terms of the actual player... albeit the value was still great. But it was a trade which made all the sense in the world at the time.
The outcome of the Vesey deal was predicted by most... But even that was a very low risk move given what was given up & the term on Veseys contract. Would have been nice to get one of those other guys instead but you can't trade for everyone.
His defensive game has been stronger than his offensive game IMO. Though I don't agree with him when he says Skinner should be there instead of Olofsson, if anything Reinhart needs to be bumped to the second line.
I think we need to be honest...the majority of people were thrilled with the Miller trade at the time.
when is trading a 2nd for a 3rd pair defensemen with a dog **** defensive game “great value”?
He's a third pair D on a good team - at worst. At the time of trade he was likely a top 4 lock for the Sabres.
He is signed to a reasonable contract with perfect term.
The pick is an extra year into the future & probably a late one.
It was great value.
Everyone except the strongest Botts detractors thought so at the time.
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/sabres-acquire-colin-miller-from-vgk-for-stls-2nd-round-pick-in-2021-and-a-5th-round-pick-in-2022.2662609
Yeah. Even people now slamming him for the Miller trade were quite optimistic at the time.
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/sabres-acquire-colin-miller-from-vgk-for-stls-2nd-round-pick-in-2021-and-a-5th-round-pick-in-2022.2662609
Yeah. Even people now slamming him for the Miller trade were quite optimistic at the time.
I 100% agree with this and laid out the timeline in the post below a month ago.I think it's very important to put the Miller trade in context -- we needed an RHD as we only had a kvetching Risto, Montour and a broken Bogosian. Borgen may or may not have been ready. Botts identified what he thought was a solid deal and made it. Yeah, maybe a little pricey at the time.......but a 3rd pairing RHD under term for a 2nd rounder? Not a terrible overpayment for a guy who should have anchored PP2 and played a decent enough 15-17 min per game.
But THEN the Nylander/Jokiharju deal came across his desk. It's a deal that had to be made. And the deal was probably made with the thinking that he'd spend some time in Rochester.
Annnnnnnnd then Joki proved to be an actual, honest-to-god NHL Defenseman and suddenly we've got a logjam. My gut feeling is that if the Nylander/Joki deal happens first.......the Miller deal doesn't happen at all. And I cannot blame him for not doing Nylander for Jokiharju first because I think literally the only GM in the league that would do that deal is one that had a particular and keen interest in acquiring Nylander.......which I feel like was only Stan Bowman.
I 100% agree with this and laid out the timeline in the post below a month ago.
Jason Botterrill Discussion Part 4
If you are honest about the timeline and situation you will see that the Miller trade was a very good choice at the time. Joker was a wildcard and great trade. It worked out so well it created a logjam. None if this is bad. The only thing bad was not figuring out how to move a few players earlier to relieve it. However, as much as RFA's and the cap slowed things down, I also think having a new coach and wanting to give Ralph time to figure out which ones he would want to keep before shipping one or two out may have also played in the delay.
I think this is a great point. I couldn't find it just now, but a few weeks ago read an article that painted Miller as the second most skilled defensemen on the Sabres after Dahlin, but noted he had been fighting Ralph's system a bit and thus not getting playing time. That's on both the coach and the player. Last night against Vegas you could see the good Miller on display quite a bit. On multiple occasions instead of passing the puck from the end line he very quickly skated hard up ice an looked for the outlet pass along the way. The defense often tried to cover the pass lanes and left him alone to skate right through the neutral zone and even a couple of times right into the offensive zone. That ability to skate the puck out of the zone instead of stand still passing it is one of the reasons they traded for him. Now whether that fits with the rest of our defensive core at the moment is another thing, but the skill is there with Miller if he is put in the right role with the right line mate…..which to me is a third pairing with a heavy defensive partner......Borgan?Yep, it was seemingly accepted as a good move. But much like everything lately, the execution of using the player in the lineup has been terrible.
1. Joker has not regressedBogosian had his surgery in April. Pilut had his in May. Their timelines were well aware of way before preseason. Montour went out with a hand injury in the preseason, to which Botterill made statements he's happy to go through the season calling Rochester guys up. During the offseason he grabbed Joker, so he had a crowded RD PRIOR to Montour going out.
Given the cap situation that HE CREATED. Even with that, he constructed a roster that was bloated in a position while struggling to receive consistent secondary scoring from our forwards, which in turned pissed off players due to limited playing time. His cap work has been atrocious.
A GM's job is never done. It's not just about how you construct your team during the offseason. It's about how you respond to things and how quickly you can fix a situation and the foresight of your team DURING the season. Botterill had a timeline, which is not new for him, to get a move done, as at some point this season, he would be receiving 2 guys back from injuries, and he would have an already overcrowded blueline. As a GM that is okay with taking guys from Rochester as he admitted, you set yourself to get guys back, and move guys to improve your forwards. So Botterill, with a over crowded RD corp, decides to move a LD. Still have an issue with a crowded RD and you have 2 forwards who are your main "complementary goal scorers" out with injuries and your forwards continue to be terrible.
Joker has played worse than where he was earlier in the year. McCabe has been a train-wreck ALL season. Ristolainen is back to playing to his 2014-2015 level which is still lousy, but hey he's a beast on the PP out of position. Montour has been lost all year, and highly inconsistent. Dahlin JUST now is playing better than last year.
What's amazing is the failiure to acknowledge that the Joker trade hadn't happened at that point while there was white hot speculation Risto had requested a trade & was about to be shipped out.
Thankfully the former happened while the latter didn't.
I didn't actually like the Miller acquisition in terms of the actual player... albeit the value was still great. But it was a trade which made all the sense in the world at the time.
The outcome of the Vesey deal was predicted by most... But even that was a very low risk move given what was given up & the term on Veseys contract. Would have been nice to get one of those other guys instead but you can't trade for everyone.