News Article: Sabres looking (as an option) to move half of Amerks home games to Buffalo

[Reddawg]

You know what would consistently draw 10k crowds for Rochester hockey? A good, winning team.

The nonsense about upgrading the facility is just that, nonsense. No one in Rochester cares about anything at Blue Cross Arena other than seeing the Amerks win. When they're shi*ty, no one wants to go to the games.

Make the team better, and more people will come to watch it.

Simple.

 

[Matt Ress]

You know what would consistently draw 10k crowds for Rochester hockey? A good, winning team.

The nonsense about upgrading the facility is just that, nonsense. No one in Rochester cares about anything at Blue Cross Arena other than seeing the Amerks win. When they're shi*ty, no one wants to go to the games.

Make the team better, and more people will come to watch it.

Simple.

Well, I can't speak for Rochesterites (?), but I can tell you that for a casual fan, a sweet place to watch games is much more appealing. I understand Amerk fan's frustration but, I think it may be directed at the wrong people if you're blaming team ownership.

 

[Reddawg]

Well, I can't speak for Rochesterites (?), but I can tell you that for a casual fan, a sweet place to watch games is much more appealing. I understand Amerk fan's frustration but, I think it may be directed at the wrong people if you're blaming team ownership.

Rochestarians.

Take a look at the last 15 years of Amerks attendance...the last three times we crested an average of 8k+ in ticket sales was 1999-2000, 2000-2001, and 2004-2005. All 45+ win seasons.

Attendance plummeted down to 3800-4200 per game when Florida was the parent team, they couldn't give tickets away.

Rochester fans want to see a winning team that is affiliated with the Sabres, absolute bottom line. No one cares about the building they play in, it's perfectly adequate for minor league hockey and better than many arenas that host the AHL.

 

[Paxon]

Well, I can't speak for Rochesterites (?), but I can tell you that for a casual fan, a sweet place to watch games is much more appealing. I understand Amerk fan's frustration but, I think it may be directed at the wrong people if you're blaming team ownership.

I agree that such things help bring in casual fans, but we're talking about the AHL here. How many AHL teams have a sweet place to watch games? I'd say there are three things that bring in casual fans to any sporting event: amenities/theatrics/etc (anything of the experience beyond the game itself), price, and winning/electrifying talent. I'd say these are in descending order of importance. The price is certainly right for Amerks games as it doesn't cost you any more than a movie. A winning team is more realistic for bringing in fans than whatever upgrades the arena could have. It's not a bad arena at all. You can't really expect too much more for the price of the ticket, really.

 

[Matt Ress]

Rochestarians.

Take a look at the last 15 years of Amerks attendance...the last three times we crested an average of 8k+ in ticket sales was 1999-2000, 2000-2001, and 2004-2005. All 45+ win seasons.

Attendance plummeted down to 3800-4200 per game when Florida was the parent team, they couldn't give tickets away.

Rochester fans want to see a winning team that is affiliated with the Sabres, absolute bottom line. No one cares about the building they play in, it's perfectly adequate for minor league hockey and better than many arenas that host the AHL.

Thank you for the correction btw. I'm not interested in arguing against the notion that a winning team brings in more fans. Naturally, that is probably the single biggest pull. All I really meant to point out is that ownership probably wanted a nicer place to play, or insists on it. The idea that it would attract more casual fans is a proven fact but not the backbone of the idea. Ownership has the option of moving and speculatively decided to use that as leverage. The idea that there are no sweet venues to watch AHL is moot from that side and may even reaffirm the idea that it would make game attendance that much more attractive.

I say all this but I don't mean to discount the notion that we would all be more excited to see a highly competitive Amerks squad.

 

[Reddawg]

Just curious, have you have been to Blue Cross Arena personally? I've been going there since I was a kid (when it was the War Memorial) and it's a very nice arena. Plenty of luxury boxes, plenty of seating available (during the Florida years they actually covered up the upper levels to sell that for advertising since the seats weren't selling anyway)...I can't speak for the player amenities but for an attending fan, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Blue Cross as it is today.

It's not First Niagara Center, but the Amerks aren't likely to sell 18,000 tickets anytime soon either.

I don't doubt that Sabres ownership wants upgraded facilities for the team they allow to play in Rochester, I'm sure that's the case. I'm just responding to the notion that it's a big deal to the fans, because it really isn't at all. Blue Cross Arena as it sits today doesn't keep anyone from attending Amerks games.

 

[Matt Ress]

It's really all speculation that arena improvements is the reason this came about anyway but, if that is the case, the Pegulas have shown that they're not into dealing with less than the best stuff so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Matt Ress]

Just curious, have you have been to Blue Cross Arena personally? I've been going there since I was a kid (when it was the War Memorial) and it's a very nice arena. Plenty of luxury boxes, plenty of seating available (during the Florida years they actually covered up the upper levels to sell that for advertising since the seats weren't selling anyway)...I can't speak for the player amenities but for an attending fan, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Blue Cross as it is today.

It's not First Niagara Center, but the Amerks aren't likely to sell 18,000 tickets anytime soon either.

Yes, I have and always have a blast. If I came off sounding like I was putting the arena down, that is not what I meant at all.

Now I understand how it sounded that way but really it's not what I meant. Simply, speculating the idea that ownership wanted an upgraded venue, which brought this all up. And I'm balls deep in 2x ipa so I'm kinda tripping over myself. But, I doubt anyone in ownership thinks a good idea to alienate an entire fan base. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Reddawg]

Yes, I have and always have a blast. If I came off sounding like I was putting the arena down, that is not what I meant at all.

Now I understand how it sounded that way but really it's not what I meant. Simply, speculating the idea that ownership wanted an upgraded venue, which brought this all up. And I'm balls deep in 2x ipa so I'm kinda tripping over myself. But, I doubt anyone in ownership thinks a good idea to alienate an entire fan base. It just doesn't make sense.

Yeah, it kinda did but no big deal. We all want the same thing in the end, the best possible development for the kids to make the best possible Sabres team down the road. If Blue Cross upgrades make that development that much better, I'm all for it, and if they make ownership happy and more supportive of the Amerks and the city, I'm all for that too.

 

[Disengage]

And to think how you must of felt when they left to Portland.

I think they could get 10,000 a game if they played in Buffalo. I would have no problem if they played in Buffalo. You would definitely get a Canadian crowd to draw from too. I would feel bad for Rochester but I don't see how there is a loss it that scenario outside of upset people living in Rochester.

They've played 4 games in Buffalo in the past 3 seasons. Only one got to 10k during the lockout and the other 3 were basically empty.

 

[Bps21*]

The last 3 seasons aren't exactly a boom period of hockey passion in Buffalo. In a couple years when you can't get a ticket to see Eichel and company...I bet a secondary option could do quite well if people felt it was a part of the community and not just a tour stop.

 

[Jim Bob]

Because you're clearly not biased or anything. Do I want to move the Americans? No. Would it be neat to have the farm team directly in Buffalo? Yes. But that's because I'm a fan of the Sabres, which you aren't.

If the Sabres can't get the Amerks to break even, good luck doing it in Buffalo.

 

[Dex]

My take is this:

Buffalo wants SMG out. They (the Sabres) want to be the operator and perhaps even the owner of the arena.

I do believe that they are losing money on the Amerks. By getting out SMG out and becoming the operator all of the money comes back to them and while they may still lose money on the Amerks, they believe that the overall operation will be profitable.

As owner of the arena or as operator of the arena in a long term lease/partnership with the city of Rochester, my guess is that the Sabres would be willing to put money into the facility to upgrade what they consider to be key areas.

The lease would have to be very favorable to the Sabres in order to accomplish this. I thought the Sabres wanted to be the operator some time ago but the city went with SMG.

I believe the Sabres want to keep the Amerks in Rochester but I believe there are real and considerable advantages to moving them to Buffalo from a logistics, operations, and development standpoint. So I think the threat is real enough to compel the city to take it seriously and favor the Sabres in upcoming talks for an arena operator.

 

[Jim Bob]

My take is this:

Buffalo wants SMG out. They want to be the operator and perhaps even the owner of the arena.

I do believe that they are losing money on the Amerks. By getting out SMG out and becoming the operator all of the money comes back to them and while they may still lose money on the Amerks, they believe that the overall operation will be profitable.

As owner of the arena or as operator of the arena in a long term lease/partnership with the city of Rochester, my guess is that the Sabres would be willing to put money into the facility to upgrade what they consider to be key areas.

The lease would have to be very favorable to the Sabres in order to accomplish this. I thought the Sabres wanted to be the operator some time ago but the city went with SMG.

I believe the Sabres want to keep the Amerks in Rochester but I believe there are real and considerable advantages to moving them to Buffalo from a logistics, operations and development standpoint. So I think the threat is real enough to compel the city to take it seriously and favor the Sabres in upcoming talks for an arena operator.

I wouldn't be surprised if legally the Sabres couldn't own the arena.

Obviously the operating contract is a different deal.

This reeks of a powerplay to get something out of the city to make things better financially for the Sabres/Amerks.

The tough part is that the city has already stiffed all the secondary tenants of the building big time. It's so bad that the Razorsharks were trying to buy the dome arena to renovate and move to.

I really don't know how realistic it is to even break even on an AHL team.

The city could build a brand spanking new arena with a ton of amenities and it would be tough to break even selling minor league hockey, even in Rochester.

 

[McCauleyChirps]

My take is this:

Buffalo wants SMG out. They (the Sabres) want to be the operator and perhaps even the owner of the arena.

I do believe that they are losing money on the Amerks. By getting out SMG out and becoming the operator all of the money comes back to them and while they may still lose money on the Amerks, they believe that the overall operation will be profitable.

As owner of the arena or as operator of the arena in a long term lease/partnership with the city of Rochester, my guess is that the Sabres would be willing to put money into the facility to upgrade what they consider to be key areas.

The lease would have to be very favorable to the Sabres in order to accomplish this. I thought the Sabres wanted to be the operator some time ago but the city went with SMG.

I believe the Sabres want to keep the Amerks in Rochester but I believe there are real and considerable advantages to moving them to Buffalo from a logistics, operations, and development standpoint. So I think the threat is real enough to compel the city to take it seriously and favor the Sabres in upcoming talks for an arena operator.

Thank you. I had to go 3 pages in to this thread for someone to finally get to the root of the matter. It's the City of Rochester. The City has been blowing away money on useless **** for the past 20 years. The latest is that UFC octagon called the bus terminal. Ask any Rochester resident, the city is DEAD after 6 PM or on the weekends unless an event is happening. There's just really no reason to go downtown. BCA parking is also a joke.

 

[Dex]

They've played 4 games in Buffalo in the past 3 seasons. Only one got to 10k during the lockout and the other 3 were basically empty.

The Sabres ticketing/marketing strategy for the Amerks games is way wrong. Throwing the tickets in as a perk for Buffalo STHs will not compel them to come see the Amerks.

If I were Buffalo, I would offer the tickets to STHs on an opt in basis with a deadline for opting in. I would then sell/market the remaining tickets to the general public. This opens up the seats to folks like me who would love to go to the game but can't afford Buffalo season tickets. It opens it up to younger fans, to fans with families who want to experience the arena at an affordable price point. Tickets will already be affordable, but I would give Rochester STHs a deep discount or even free to coax them to make the drive.

I think with this strategy they could easily get 10,000 in there again.

 

[Jim Bob]

The Sabres ticketing/marketing strategy for the Amerks games is way wrong. Throwing the tickets in as a perk for Buffalo STHs will not compel them to come see the Amerks.

If I were Buffalo, I would offer the tickets to STHs on an opt in basis with a deadline for opting in. I would then sell/market the remaining tickets to the general public. This opens up the seats to folks like me who would love to go to the game but can't afford Buffalo season tickets. It opens it up to younger fans, to fans with families who want to experience the arena at an affordable price point. Tickets will already be affordable, but I would give Rochester STHs a deep discount or even free to coax them to make the drive.

I think with this strategy they could easily get 10,000 in there again.

That may work once a year, but it won't work 20 times a year.

Given the size of BCA and the cost to open the doors and have an event, I'd love to know how much revenue they'd have to generate per game to break even.

I doubt it would be easy.

 

[Dex]

That may work once a year, but it won't work 20 times a year.

Given the size of BCA and the cost to open the doors and have an event, I'd love to know how much revenue they'd have to generate per game to break even.

I doubt it would be easy.

You are correct - and that was the focus of my idea. I was responding to the post of Disengage in which he said that 3 of the 4 Amerks games in Buffalo have been virtually empty. I thought the reason was poor marketing and a poor ticketing strategy. I should have been clearer.

 

[wheelklown]

Better yet, move the Amerks to Batavia and put an arena next door to the new Bills stadium. Buy an OHL team and play on Rochester's off nights.

Boom.

I, for one, would be completely fine with this.

Seriously though, moving even half of the games to Buffalo is unnecessary to me. I think it takes away from The Rochester American's heritage in the Roc, the fanbase is strong and stable and having only an hour trip to watch your prospects (from team & fan standpoint) should already be considered a blessing compared to the distance other teams have to travel.

I'd have to imagine that they can come to some type of agreement on renovations and keep everything in place.
Or Terry will

 

[McCauleyChirps]

That may work once a year, but it won't work 20 times a year.

Given the size of BCA and the cost to open the doors and have an event, I'd love to know how much revenue they'd have to generate per game to break even.

I doubt it would be easy.

You're correct with the 20x a year number. However, I think something needs to be done about concerts/events avoiding BCA because their equipment doesn't fit in the building. Lot's of lost revenue there.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Being from Rochester and a huge Amerks fan, this would be very upsetting. First move management has made that i am absolutely 100% opposed to.

 

[sabrefan27]

Thank you. I had to go 3 pages in to this thread for someone to finally get to the root of the matter. It's the City of Rochester. The City has been blowing away money on useless **** for the past 20 years. The latest is that UFC octagon called the bus terminal. Ask any Rochester resident, the city is DEAD after 6 PM or on the weekends unless an event is happening. There's just really no reason to go downtown. BCA parking is also a joke.

Downtown is in the middle of being revived, so you aren't going to convince this Rochester resident. There's close to 1,500 residential units under construction now in the middle of downtown, so it'll be quite different in a year. To deny everything that's going on there is dumb.

And to think how you must of felt when they left to Portland.

I think they could get 10,000 a game if they played in Buffalo. I would have no problem if they played in Buffalo. You would definitely get a Canadian crowd to draw from too. I would feel bad for Rochester but I don't see how there is a loss it that scenario outside of upset people living in Rochester.

You clearly don't know the difference between switching affiliations and moving an entire franchise. The Amerks existed when Portland was affiliated with Buffalo.

 

[Jim Bob]

You're correct with the 20x a year number. However, I think something needs to be done about concerts/events avoiding BCA because their equipment doesn't fit in the building. Lot's of lost revenue there.

The whole concert thing is really complicated. Especially with the main concert promoters tied into DL and CMAC in the summertime.

Add in that the BCA's capacity is too big for the smaller venue tours and not big enough for the stadium tours and they are in a tough spot regardless of the equipment fitting in the building thing.

They've had major national shows in there over the last 5 years, so I really do believe that piece is overstated.

 

[Jim Bob]

Downtown is in the middle of being revived, so you aren't going to convince this Rochester resident. There's close to 1,500 residential units under construction now in the middle of downtown, so it'll be quite different in a year. To deny everything that's going on there is dumb.

When my wife and I are ready to purchase a house in 1Q16, we are looking at the UR grant program and buying in the city very seriously.

Granted, the fact that my kids have their school district determined by their mom's residence helps with that. But, we saw a house in the 19th Ward on Sunday that we would have loved to have put an offer in on had we been in the position to do so.

 

[sabrefan27]

When my wife and I are ready to purchase a house in 1Q16, we are looking at the UR grant program and buying in the city very seriously.

Granted, the fact that my kids have their school district determined by their mom's residence helps with that. But, we saw a house in the 19th Ward on Sunday that we would have loved to have put an offer in on had we been in the position to do so.

Many areas of the city are doing quite well. A friend of mind put his house up for sale in the southwedge. He sold it in less than 12 hours and above what he was asking.

Downtown itself is really about 2 years away from being entirely different. That, along with the inner loop project, has me pretty excited personally.