Post-Game Talk: Sabres 2 @ Canucks 5 | 7/12/15

[orcatown]

Game was an indication of the depths the Canucks have to plumb if they want to be a consideration for a top lottery shot. Buffalo is truly dreadful and good example of what tanking is all about. Remarkable how they give up the neutral zone and back in all everything giving you free reign to work the puck into their zone. Total contrast with what the Bruins and others do to the Canucks in the mid ice area.

The Good

Vrbata - skilled players like Vrbata can really exploit space and time provided by teams like the Sabres. If nothing else it might bump Vrbata's trade value which might be the best thing to come out of the win.

Prust - never gone along much with the criticism of Prust. Generally provides a solid effort and did tonight. Both him and Dorsett were good and the 4th line has been and remains ok.

Miller - sloppy play of our defense was the only thing Buffalo had going for them. Miller had to make some critical saves. Miller night end up being the biggest anti-tank factor on the team.

Sedins - back to total control on the PP. Unfortunate not to really stack up more points.

The Bad

Bartkowski - don't think the team will suffer along with him much longer. Appears to me to be just getting worse. Some real ugly stuff in this one tonight Only thing he has going in his favor is that Benning signed him (God knows why). If Sbisa is ready Bartkowski needs to be quickly benched.

Other Points

Horvat looking a little better.

Always hoped Kane would end up with the Canucks but he is not looking good at all. Lot of mindless play. Eichel no better than ordinary in this one. Got to give him time but at this point like McDavid better.

Nice to see Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi honored. You have to wonder why something so good could go so bad. Championship was there if the idiot Burke hadn't hitched his wagon to Cloutier (and then used the excuse of Vancouver being a goalie graveyard to cover his butt) . Any kind of goal tending and the team wins.

 

[LiveeviL]

Game was an indication of the depths the Canucks have to plumb if they want to be a consideration for a top lottery shot. Buffalo is truly dreadful and good example of what tanking is all about. Remarkable how they give up the neutral zone and back in all everything giving you free reign to work the puck into their zone. Total contrast with what the Bruins and others do to the Canucks in the mid ice area.

The Good

Vrbata - skilled players like Vrbata can really exploit space and time provided by teams like the Sabres. If nothing else it might bump Vrbata's trade value which might be the best thing to come out of the win.

Prust - never gone along much with the criticism of Prust. Generally provides a solid effort and did tonight. Both him and Dorsett were good and the 4th line has been and remains ok.

Miller - sloppy play of our defense was the only thing Buffalo had going for them. Miller had to make some critical saves. Miller night end up being the biggest anti-tank factor on the team.

Sedins - back to total control on the PP. Unfortunate not to really stack up more points.

The Bad

Bartkowski - don't think the team will suffer along with him much longer. Appears to me to be just getting worse. Some real ugly stuff in this one tonight Only thing he has going in his favor is that Benning signed him (God knows why). If Sbisa is ready Bartkowski needs to be quickly benched.

Other Points

Horvat looking a little better.

Always hoped Kane would end up with the Canucks but he is not looking good at all. Lot of mindless play. Eichel no better than ordinary in this one. Got to give him time but at this point like McDavid better.

Nice to see Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi honored. You have to wonder why something so good could go so bad. Championship was there if the idiot Burke hadn't hitched his wagon to Cloutier (and then used the excuse of Vancouver being a goalie graveyard to cover his butt) . Any kind of goal tending and the team wins.

Good sum up as always. But I didn't know that Burke used the goalie graveyard narrative? Is it so? It seems as dishonest and a bit cowardly to use that kind of storytelling if you have been (perhaps even when he actually was GM ?) in his kind of position.

 

[StIllmatic]

Good sum up as always. But I didn't know that Burke used the goalie graveyard narrative? Is it so? It seems as dishonest and a bit cowardly to use that kind of storytelling if you have been (perhaps even when he actually was GM ?) in his kind of position.

Burke created the goalie graveyard nonsense. Cloutier lost us the series against Detroit with that awful centre ice goal. The wings then went on to win the cup. I barely remember that because I was just like 6 or 7 years old. I do remember him and Sabourin playing poorly against Minnesota though the following year. Also remember tearing up when we got eliminated... Little did I know that was only the beginning of life as a Canucks fan.

 

[LiveeviL]

Burke created the goalie graveyard nonsense. Cloutier lost us the series against Detroit with that awful centre ice goal. The wings then went on to win the cup. I barely remember that because I was just like 6 or 7 years old. I do remember him and Sabourin playing poorly against Minnesota though the following year. Also remember tearing up when we got eliminated... Little did I know that was only the beginning of life as a Canucks fan.

Thanks, I was mainly focused on on-ice-things back then, seems as that was a good move.

 

[biturbo19]

Funny you should say that tonight after one of his better efforts.

Yeah. Wouldn't criticize Hamhuis in this one. Was one of his better efforts.

Yeah he was much better even though he got rocked in the 1st period. Paired with Biega who helps a lot on the back end. No way Biega should be coming out of the lineup.

I think that's probably a real factor. Dragging Weber and Bartkowski around, guys who can't even remotely take care of their own business is just asking Hammer to do way too much. He's a aging #3ish defenceman, not a miracle worker.

Having a partner like Biega who handles his own battles seemed to help Hamhuis tonight. And no offense to Biega, who has been better than Weber and Bartkowski, but he's still not exactly a stud partner. Imagine what Hamhuis might still be capable of with a competent top-4 defenceman partered beside him for the season.

Think the "massive regression" from Hamhuis is compounded and made to look so much worse, by the fact that he's not only slowing down a bit as players often do with age...but in that he's being asked to carry progressively worse partners over the years on top of that.

I appear to be in the minority here, but i'd have absolutely no issue re-signing Hamhuis for another few years at a similar rate. I'd just want to get serious about finding him a real top-4D partner to help him out.

 

[Huggy]

Try to see who horvat is playing against. I heard eichel and ristolinen all night.

Its just not realistic for him to be scoring and shutting down this kind of line with burrows and higgins.

Once we get gaunce and grenier more seasoned he will have the wingers with size his qoc demands.

I was wrong and he wont get 50 points. But hopefully he can pull up and try to get it going before sutter is back.

I dont see it but its hard not to feel bad for him and my signed jersey i dont wear cuz iam really really sick and tired of this team not having 2nd line wingers since the wce and sedins as our 2nd.

Higgins burrows hansen god i love. Everyone of you but not when horvat is playing kopitar and eichel and krecji and its just like.

Mike gillis **** you for never drafting a linemate for this kid. Ballard, schroeder, not resigning erhoff. You are a fool.

 

[a Fool]

Yeah. Wouldn't criticize Hamhuis in this one. Was one of his better efforts.



I think that's probably a real factor. Dragging Weber and Bartkowski around, guys who can't even remotely take care of their own business is just asking Hammer to do way too much. He's a aging #3ish defenceman, not a miracle worker.

Having a partner like Biega who handles his own battles seemed to help Hamhuis tonight. And no offense to Biega, who has been better than Weber and Bartkowski, but he's still not exactly a stud partner. Imagine what Hamhuis might still be capable of with a competent top-4 defenceman partered beside him for the season.

Think the "massive regression" from Hamhuis is compounded and made to look so much worse, by the fact that he's not only slowing down a bit as players often do with age...but in that he's being asked to carry progressively worse partners over the years on top of that.

I appear to be in the minority here, but i'd have absolutely no issue re-signing Hamhuis for another few years at a similar rate. I'd just want to get serious about finding him a real top-4D partner to help him out.

Biega is definitely not perfect but he makes smart plays and uses his body well. Bart/Sbisa/Weber have all been making brain dead decisions in the D zone that increases the work load on their partner by a lot. Hopefully Hammer can stabilize his play as the season goes on.

I think Hamhuis would be a perfect guy to trade and re-sign. I don't imagine it'd be hard to convince him. Trade him to a contender, hope he wins the Cup, and make a gentleman's agreement on a 2 or 3 year contract. After that go with year to year contracts until he's done. Perfect guy to have around. I think getting some assets for him is very important though. I'd risk not being able to re-sign him if we got a 1st back.

 

[sting101]

Yeah. Wouldn't criticize Hamhuis in this one. Was one of his better efforts.



I think that's probably a real factor. Dragging Weber and Bartkowski around, guys who can't even remotely take care of their own business is just asking Hammer to do way too much. He's a aging #3ish defenceman, not a miracle worker.

Having a partner like Biega who handles his own battles seemed to help Hamhuis tonight. And no offense to Biega, who has been better than Weber and Bartkowski, but he's still not exactly a stud partner. Imagine what Hamhuis might still be capable of with a competent top-4 defenceman partered beside him for the season.

Think the "massive regression" from Hamhuis is compounded and made to look so much worse, by the fact that he's not only slowing down a bit as players often do with age...but in that he's being asked to carry progressively worse partners over the years on top of that.

I appear to be in the minority here, but i'd have absolutely no issue re-signing Hamhuis for another few years at a similar rate. I'd just want to get serious about finding him a real top-4D partner to help him out.

I'd be fine with it too...if Hutton can play the RD with Edler or him.

It really depends on term money and what Dan wants.

Ideal scenario...Antoine Vermette...traded for a 1st and returns after winning cup

 

[NuxFan09]

Biega is definitely not perfect but he makes smart plays and uses his body well. Bart/Sbisa/Weber have all been making brain dead decisions in the D zone that increases the work load on their partner by a lot. Hopefully Hammer can stabilize his play as the season goes on.

I think Hamhuis would be a perfect guy to trade and re-sign. I don't imagine it'd be hard to convince him. Trade him to a contender, hope he wins the Cup, and make a gentleman's agreement on a 2 or 3 year contract. After that go with year to year contracts until he's done. Perfect guy to have around. I think getting some assets for him is very important though. I'd risk not being able to re-sign him if we got a 1st back.

I'd definitely be up for this plan, especially if he comes back cheaper as an above average 3rd pairing guy. Give Hutton the 2nd pairing left side reins.

Edler - Tanev
Hutton - FA signing (Demers)
Hamhuis - Sbisa
Biega

 

[biturbo19]

Biega is definitely not perfect but he makes smart plays and uses his body well. Bart/Sbisa/Weber have all been making brain dead decisions in the D zone that increases the work load on their partner by a lot. Hopefully Hammer can stabilize his play as the season goes on.

I think Hamhuis would be a perfect guy to trade and re-sign. I don't imagine it'd be hard to convince him. Trade him to a contender, hope he wins the Cup, and make a gentleman's agreement on a 2 or 3 year contract. After that go with year to year contracts until he's done. Perfect guy to have around. I think getting some assets for him is very important though. I'd risk not being able to re-sign him if we got a 1st back.

I'd be fine with it too...if Hutton can play the RD with Edler or him.

It really depends on term money and what Dan wants.

Ideal scenario...Antoine Vermette...traded for a 1st and returns after winning cup

Yeah. I think pulling a Vermette trade and re-sign trick would be the dream.

That's really down to Dan though, and whether or not he'd be on board with that idea.

 

[StIllmatic]

Yeah. Wouldn't criticize Hamhuis in this one. Was one of his better efforts.



I think that's probably a real factor. Dragging Weber and Bartkowski around, guys who can't even remotely take care of their own business is just asking Hammer to do way too much. He's a aging #3ish defenceman, not a miracle worker.

Having a partner like Biega who handles his own battles seemed to help Hamhuis tonight. And no offense to Biega, who has been better than Weber and Bartkowski, but he's still not exactly a stud partner. Imagine what Hamhuis might still be capable of with a competent top-4 defenceman partered beside him for the season.

Edit: I see it's already been mentioned


edit: I see it's already been mentioned haha.

Think the "massive regression" from Hamhuis is compounded and made to look so much worse, by the fact that he's not only slowing down a bit as players often do with age...but in that he's being asked to carry progressively worse partners over the years on top of that.

I appear to be in the minority here, but i'd have absolutely no issue re-signing Hamhuis for another few years at a similar rate. I'd just want to get serious about finding him a real top-4D partner to help him out.

Best case scenario would be for Hamhuis to have a good season and then trade him at the deadline for a 1st+. We then proceed to resign him in the offseason like how Arizona did with Vermette.

 

[I am toxic]

Yeah. Wouldn't criticize Hamhuis in this one. Was one of his better efforts.



I think that's probably a real factor. Dragging Weber and Bartkowski around, guys who can't even remotely take care of their own business is just asking Hammer to do way too much. He's a aging #3ish defenceman, not a miracle worker.

Having a partner like Biega who handles his own battles seemed to help Hamhuis tonight. And no offense to Biega, who has been better than Weber and Bartkowski, but he's still not exactly a stud partner. Imagine what Hamhuis might still be capable of with a competent top-4 defenceman partered beside him for the season.

Think the "massive regression" from Hamhuis is compounded and made to look so much worse, by the fact that he's not only slowing down a bit as players often do with age...but in that he's being asked to carry progressively worse partners over the years on top of that.

I appear to be in the minority here, but i'd have absolutely no issue re-signing Hamhuis for another few years at a similar rate. I'd just want to get serious about finding him a real top-4D partner to help him out.

This. It's why he looked good at the WC last spring, and doesn't look the same now. He had partners as good as himself then. It's why Tanev is looking slightly less than himself - because Edler is having an off-season (pp assist tonite notwithstanding). Pairings matter.

 

[vancityluongo]

Buffalo is awful. Wish the Sedins could have buried a couple more chances to pad the stats.

 

[Hyzer]

Went to the game today.

Wow Eichel was bad. Just did nothing all game, weak as hell on his skates, trying to one man too many times. He played baaaaad.

Vrby upping his trade value.


This game shows how hard we have to tank to become Buffalo level, inspirational stuff there

 

[Josepho]

Yeah. I think pulling a Vermette trade and re-sign trick would be the dream.

That's really down to Dan though, and whether or not he'd be on board with that idea.

I'm pretty sure Dan would be up to it. He loves Vancouver, and IIRC, he's the owner of the Prince George Cougars.

 

[dangerous dan]

Burke created the goalie graveyard nonsense. Cloutier lost us the series against Detroit with that awful centre ice goal. The wings then went on to win the cup. I barely remember that because I was just like 6 or 7 years old. I do remember him and Sabourin playing poorly against Minnesota though the following year. Also remember tearing up when we got eliminated... Little did I know that was only the beginning of life as a Canucks fan.

That year we got eliminated by Minnesota was a terribly wasted opportunity to shoot for the cup. We were easily one of the top teams in the West, maybe the best. We had the league's most dominant line, solid supporting forwards and a deep defence. Our goaltending was plainly terrible, and cost us the Minnesota series no question. Burke's greatest legacy was his failure to acquire or develop a starting goaltender. He dumped tons of assets on goalie trades too, in the process of acquiring Potvin, Cloutier, Weekes and other pretenders. Pathetically, Cloutier was the best of the bunch by a mile, and he was still a bottom 5 starter in the league

 

[mathonwy]

 

[MS]

Buffalo were awful but this was a better performance. Nice to at least see some positive signs.

- Sedins were dominant on the PP and unlucky bit to score more (including the lame quick whistle non-goal). Actually looking even better than last year right now.

- 4th line were legitimately good tonight for the first time since October. Cracknell especially really pushed the play and had a very strong game. Will probably ensure they're overplayed for another 20 games, though ...

- crazy that Vrbata is suddenly on pace for 25-30 goals. Good game for his trade value.

- also probably Higgins' best game of the year. Showed way more jump and was dangerous, especially in the first 30 minutes.

- Horvat was maybe a bit better but that line continues to struggle.

- Tanev-Edler were solid. Edler was less static on the PP and it made a noticeable difference.

- Biega again excellent and had a positive impact on Hamhuis also. This player should not be coming out of the lineup for any reason.

- I've tried to support Bartkowski but he was just awful tonight. Left poor Hutton with so much work to do. So many turnovers.

- good game for Miller, finally gets his win against Buffalo.

 

[mathonwy]

What an awesome game.

Great reception for the WCE and the most engaged I've seen Vrbata all season.

Hutton makes this line up sooooo much better.

Prusty sticks Marchand last game and scores his first goal the following game. Very good game by that line. Lots of cycling and lots of puck possession.

Sabres had a craptacular game except for Ryan O'Reilly.

Bart can **** right off.

 

[EpochLink]

Weber and Bartkowski can **** off this team, both are trash and I'd rather watch Maury Povich than wasting my time watching those bums.

 

[Pip]

Awful game by Buffalo, pretty much everyone looked good. When Cracknell and Prust are pulling Sedin-like cycles you know the team is bad

I just don't know with Baertschi. He looked okay tonight but with all the time and space he should have excelled as a skill player like Vrbata did. If he was 18 I would think that there is enough skill there to develop but at this point I just don't think he's going to turn out. Definitely an anchor dragging down Horvat for most of this year.

 

[biturbo19]

I'm pretty sure Dan would be up to it. He loves Vancouver, and IIRC, he's the owner of the Prince George Cougars.

Right. And he also seems quite the "family man". And he obviously loves it here and has those community roots and all the rest. Which is reason upon reason for him to want to re-sign with the Canucks.

But it also raises a question as to whether he'd want to jump ship for a few months, away from "home" and all the rest.


I mean, if the Canucks are out of the hunt, i'd absolutely hope he'd be up for that sort of thing. But he's a person, not just a trade chip. I'm not sure it's a total slam dunk idea. But it'd be awesome if it worked out like that. Best of both worlds really...and another shot at the cup for Hammer, if he's willing to take it.

 

[mathonwy]

I just don't know with Baertschi. He looked okay tonight but with all the time and space he should have excelled as a skill player like Vrbata did. If he was 18 I would think that there is enough skill there to develop but at this point I just don't think he's going to turn out. Definitely an anchor dragging down Horvat for most of this year.

The team "should" only be carrying maximum two rookies/sophomores in our forward group.

Horvat... and somebody else. McCann maybe... maybe not.

And either Dorsett or Prust.... not both.

Baertschi being on the team is what happens when you have a crap GM that doesn't know how to manage salary caps.

 

[mathonwy]

Went to the game today.

Wow Eichel was bad. Just did nothing all game, weak as hell on his skates, trying to one man too many times. He played baaaaad.

Vrby upping his trade value.


This game shows how hard we have to tank to become Buffalo level, inspirational stuff there

Yeah.. I agree with you.

Buffalo tanks haaaaaaaaaaaaard.

The only way we can match a Buffaslug tank is by WD completely losing the room.

And Hank playing the dutiful quiet soldier.

Which ain't gonna happen.

 

[Addison Rae]

GMs don't just value it, coaches and the players themselves value some toughness in the lineup.

Cool, funny how the two cup finalists last year had fourth lines consisting of players who could actually play the game well. Kruger and Paquete were both excellent for their teams. I'm not one that undervalues tough players that can actually play the sport but, finding a quality 4th liner is extremely easy, and numerous could be had for under 2 million a year.