Post-Game Talk: RZH eats the Devils' brains

[Soundwave]

Respectfully this doesnt make sense.

Its fine to want a higher standard of GM'ing...we all do.

The reality is though (and the part you are missing) that he/she is imposing his time frame on when results are supposed to happen. He/she is also imposing their sense of what constitutes something that Holland should move on and when that doesnt happen the only conclusion is that Holland sucks.

Its abject nonsense.

All GMs in every pro sport are on a ticking clock.

We know what it is in Edmonton. They have maybe 2 years from the Holland hiring to have a pretty good team here.

I don't really think theres anything controversial about that.

If the Oilers didn't want that pressure put on them they could've passed that golden ticket right over to Buffalo or Arizona and they'd gladly have accepted.

 

[Missing smitty]

Bro, YOU ARE the typical casual fan type. Don't for a moment think you are one of the "more knowledgeable posters" as far as hockey is concerned. LOL. Yes these guys make mistakes (definitely should have drafted Tkachuk whom i wanted) but make no mistake (as much as i dislike chia), they know more than the casual fan. You don't know the behind the scene things they have to deal with. If you did you'd understand better why they do what they do.

Lol. You might be the most condescending person I've read on here in a long time. You talk about "casual" fans, but then use Devils fans as an some sort of defense for your asinine argument. Unless you've played in the NHL (which I highly doubt), you are just a casual fan too. Unless you've run a team, scouted for a team, coached a team or played for a team, your opinion is just as important as anyone else, so get off your high horse.

 

[MaxR11]

I agree.
I honestly dont understand the fascination with Hall at the price he is going to get. Nostalgia is fun and all but saying no to adding Hall at substantially more than what he is making now is a no brainer.

Its almost like some posters have their minds so clouded with nostalgia that they are thinking clearly.

If anything i think the nostalgia was more of a nightmare than "fun"....which makes wanting him back much more perplexing.

 

[guymez]

I could be wrong but I haven't interpreted his posts as "Holland sucks." He's pretty invested in the "Chia sucks" argument (I think most of us are), but I think for the most part he's been willing to give Holland more rope because he knows how badly Chia left this team.

Man...you have a talent for stretching the bounds of interpretation to limits never seen before.

 

[Missing smitty]

yeah he got his **** together, but he’s always had talent and abilities that Nuge doesn’t possess. MacKinnon is built like a Hall/Crosby hybrid and is faster than both. He also has the benefit of playing with big two all star level wingers on his line. Swap Chiasson and Neal for Rantanen and Landeskog and Nuge would look pretty damn dominant.

Oops, read that wrong

 

[MaxR11]

Lol. You might be the most condescending person I've read on here in a long time. You talk about "casual" fans, but then use Devils fans as an some sort of defense for your asinine argument. Unless you've played in the NHL (which I highly doubt), you are just a casual fan too. Unless you've run a team, scouted for a team, coached a team or played for a team, your opinion is just as important as anyone else, so get off your high horse.

fair enough, but I do have conversations with people who are definitely HIGHLY regarded in the hockey world and they share the same sentiments... without me even bringing up the topic.

 

[Soundwave]

Bro, YOU ARE the typical casual fan type. Don't for a moment think you are one of the "more knowledgeable posters" as far as hockey is concerned. LOL. Yes these guys make mistakes (definitely should have drafted Tkachuk whom i wanted) but make no mistake (as much as i dislike chia), they know more than the casual fan. You don't know the behind the scene things they have to deal with. If you did you'd understand better why they do what they do.

I stand by 90 percent of my calls on this board many have played out exactly as I said.

Even this preseason I'm getting killed by posters for saying don't read too much into preseason dandies.

I wanted Tkachuk or Dubois from that draft too that's not some killer call.

 

[Cloned]

Man...you have a talent for stretching the bounds of interpretation to limits never seen before.

If you can point to a post of his that actually outright bashes Holland, especially in comparison to his rhetoric on Chia, I'd be willing to change my mind.

 

[guymez]

All GMs in every pro sport are on a ticking clock.

We know what it is in Edmonton. They have maybe 2 years from the Holland hiring to have a pretty good team here.

I don't really think theres anything controversial about that.

If the Oilers didn't want that pressure put on them they could've passed that golden ticket right over to Buffalo or Arizona and they'd gladly have accepted.

The problem is that you are not factoring in the reality of the situation and expecting results stat.
Its completely and totally unrealistic. So are some of your solutions.

 

[guymez]

If you can point to a post of his that actually outright bashes Holland, especially in comparison to his rhetoric on Chia, I'd be willing to change my mind.

Its not worth my time to go over his posts and show you...if you are so committed to defending his nonsense posts then you are welcome to do that yourself.

Its rhetoric at best and its tiring IMO.

 

[GodPucker]

I have been going hard on Nuge. I was at the game last night. He played well. Please bring that type of play more Nuge. Have to give him props.

 

[Soundwave]

The problem is that you are not factoring in the reality of the situation and expecting results stat.
Its completely and totally unrealistic. So are some of your solutions.

Actually I find a lot of people here don't do their homework. I check Capfriendly on a daily basis and run the cap scenarios I suggest.

I don't just pull them out of nowhere. Most people who say "can't afford it" havent even taken 2 minutes to do a basic lineup and crunch the numbers.

 

[Cloned]

Its not worth my time to go over his posts and show you...if you are so committed to defending his nonsense posts then you are welcome to do that yourself.

It's not that I'm committed, I just haven't seen a post of his that does what you're claiming he did. It's really the first time I've interjected like this between you two.

 

[guymez]

Actually I find a lot of people here don't do their homework. I check Capfriendly on a daily basis and run the cap scenarios I suggest.

I don't just pull them out of nowhere. Most people who say "can't afford it" havent even taken 2 minutes to do a basic lineup and crunch the numbers.

Well...my advice to you is to take a little more time processing.

 

[Missing smitty]

fair enough, but I do have conversations with people who are definitely HIGHLY regarded in the hockey world and they share the same sentiments... without me even bringing up the topic.

So you just parrot others opinions?

 

[MaxR11]

So you just parrot others opinions?

no i've formulated my opinions long before but it just happens to be aligned with their opinions. heck, i'm actually the one having to play UP hall in some conversations.

 

[guymez]

It's not that I'm committed, I just haven't seen a post of his that does what you're claiming he did. It's really the first time I've interjected like this between you two.

Its cool.

There are no hard feelings on my part.
The sense of frustration comes from trying to penetrate his wall of rhetoric.

Do you see my suggestion to let Holland have some cap space to implement his long term plan for this team as being unreasonable?
Thats my entire position.

Oh...and to let go of the negativity of the past and try to enjoy what we have (the team is markedly improved) and the potential of where it could go.

Two things that Soundwave is apparently vehemently opposed to.

 

[MaxR11]

I stand by 90 percent of my calls on this board many have played out exactly as I said.

Even this preseason I'm getting killed by posters for saying don't read too much into preseason dandies.

I wanted Tkachuk or Dubois from that draft too that's not some killer call.

even IF you are "90%" right (highly doubt it)... does not mean you'd make the right moves as the ACTUAL gm. heck, i have a pretty good ability to foresee things as well relating to the oil but i don't delude myself into thinking i would actually do a better job than any GM hired by hockey people. like i said, there's SO much behind the scenes you don't know that affects WHY they do what they do. I've heard some of these stories.

 

[Soundwave]

Well...my advice to you is to take a little more time processing.

It's more of a thing and I hate to say it about NHL fans still don't really understand the salary cap very well.

I like the NBA, when you talk to NBA fans because they've had a since forever and just since 2005, I mean they know this shit inside out.

Talk to a Lakers fan a year ago and they know exactly how they're going to get Anthony Davis, which salary needs to be dumped, the concept of expiring contracts, which players they're going to use the MLE on to fill out the roster, etc. etc. etc.

Entire fanbases are concerned about expiring contracts and have cap in windows 2-3 years out because they know X/Y/Z player will be available that year (like a Kevin Durant).

But their understanding of the cap I just find is light years beyond what you get with NHL discussion.

 

[Cloned]

Its cool.

There are no hard feelings on my part.
The sense of frustration comes from trying to penetrate his wall of rhetoric.

Do you see my suggestion to let Holland have some cap space to implement his long term plan for this team as being unreasonable?
Thats my entire position.

Oh...and to let go of the negativity of the past and try to enjoy what we have (the team is markedly improved) and the potential of where it could go.

Two things that Soundwave is apparently vehemently opposed to.

I think the two of you are actually more aligned than you think. The difference is that he feels Holland should have stepped up when a perceived opportunity presented itself (Fabbri), but prior to that he was quite understanding of the shitty situation that Chia left Holland with. You may disagree on timing but I don't think your opinions are THAT far apart.

I also think he's been reservedly upbeat about the team's performance so far this year, but I think his frustration lies in unrealized potential and missed opportunities.

The reason why I believe these things is that I've seen his rhetoric before (granted, anti-Chia rhetoric isn't really rhetoric when it's based in truth), and this isn't that, IMO.

 

[MaxR11]

I'd be willing to do

Hall@ 50% retained + Zacha

for

Broberg, Puljujarvi, Neal, EDM 1st (pending a playoff berth)

IF Hall's camp is willing to sign an immediate extension like this

11/10.5/10.5/10.5/10/10/7/5.5

He gives up money on year 7/8 of the contract to play with McDavid + Draisaitl.

LOL, i highly doubt Holland even does Hall for Neal straight up. Zero chance Holland is gonna blow ANY semblence of significant cash on Hall long term or even short (2-3 yrs). Holland won't give up s*** for Hall, let alone sign him for millions.

 

[Soundwave]

I think the two of you are actually more aligned than you think. The difference is that he feels Holland should have stepped up when a perceived opportunity presented itself (Fabbri), but prior to that he was quite understanding of the ****ty situation that Chia left Holland with. You may disagree on timing but I don't think your opinions are THAT far apart.

I also think he's been reservedly upbeat about the team's performance so far this year, but I think his frustration lies in unrealized potential and missed opportunities.

The reason why I believe these things is that I've seen his rhetoric before (granted, anti-Chia rhetoric isn't really rhetoric when it's based in truth), and this isn't that, IMO.

With regards to Holland

What I've said is

1.) A GM is not owed loyalty like a king demanding fealty from peasants. You want respect/patience etc. your EARN it by making good moves. And I've said that the Neal-Lucic trade was a good one and I'm willing to give him some rope.

2.) While I wouldn't have minded taking a shot on Fabbri, I didn't specifically ever say Holland better do that. BUT he is on a ticking clock here. He doesn't have 4-5 years and bunch of mulligans to make bad moves on. If there's good opportunities available he should be on the ball.

I am willing to give Holland a chance, but he should not be under the illusion that he's in some kind of honeymoon period where he's get some grace period to sit on his ass and sit back. If there are opportunities to improve the team and bring a consistent playoff team to Edmonton for McDavid/Draisaitl to play on, he should be aggressive in pursuit of those provided the cost is reasonable.

 

[Soundwave]

LOL, i highly doubt Holland even does Hall for Neal straight up. Zero chance Holland is gonna blow ANY semblence of significant cash on Hall long term or even short (2-3 yrs). Holland won't give up s*** for Hall, let alone sign him for millions.

I like Neal fine, but that's a stupid mindset.

Neal is good but he's already quite slow and that issue is likely to become more of an issue as he becomes 33/34/35.

If you can parlay Neal's hot start to get a taker from him to accomodate a younger, better player like Hall, that should be strongly considered.

Effectively you'll have traded the crap that was Lucic for a star player in about 9 months, you can't really ask for any more than that.

 

[Cloned]

With regards to Holland

What I've said is

1.) A GM is not owed loyalty like a king demanding fealty from peasants. You want respect/patience etc. your EARN it by making good moves. And I've said that the Neal-Lucic trade was a good one and I'm willing to give him some rope.

2.) While I wouldn't have minded taking a shot on Fabbri, I didn't specifically ever say Holland better do that. BUT he is on a ticking clock here. He doesn't have 4-5 years and bunch of mulligans to make bad moves on. If there's good opportunities available he should be on the ball.

I am willing to give Holland a chance, but he should not be under the illusion that he's in some kind of honeymoon period where he's get some grace period to sit on his ass and sit back. If there are opportunities to improve the team and bring a consistent playoff team to Edmonton for McDavid/Draisaitl to play on, he should be aggressive in pursuit of those provided the cost is reasonable.

Which is what I think I've represented your argument as. No idea why I interjected anyways, lol, maybe I just wanted to play pretend-lawyer on HF.

 

[Soundwave]

Which is what I think I've represented your argument as. No idea why I interjected anyways, lol, maybe I just wanted to play pretend-lawyer on HF.

No you were doing a great job lol, just wanted to be clear about the Fabbri thing in particular, I wasn't parroting that. Though he looked awfully good in that Detroit game.