ROR is a first line centre the same way Derek Roy was a first line centre, you are not winning if he is the catalyst upfront.
Confirmed with Link: Ryan O'Reilly traded to STL for Tage Thompson, Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, 2019 1st, 2021 2nd
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ROR is a first line centre the same way Derek Roy was a first line centre, you are not winning if he is the catalyst upfront.
SabresFan26
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Also 1st line centers should score more than 7 goals 5v5. In 3 years as a Sabre, ROR never scored more than 11 goals 5v5.
You are the first person I have ever heard say ROR is a first line center. I dont even think his mother would make that claim. Lol
Aladyyn
they praying for the death of a rockstar
OkimLom
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SabresFan26
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Eichel will be the #1 center this year. Eichel scored 16/25 goals 5v5 despite only playing 75% of the season. Man ROR is overrated on here.
The fact is, ROR played a ton of minutes, scored most of points on special teams and was above average defensively. He was good at starting possession by winning face offs but I like what we got for him as it was a good long term investment.
I thought Marty Biron's take was pretty good on this trade. Those special team points will be filled by others in increased minutes.
Royal Thunder
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Most teams in the league would not be able to win a cup with ROR replacing their current 1C. Nashville is a phenomenally deep team with the best D in the league and is an exception to this proposition and not the rule..
SabresFan26
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Ryan O Reilly had 7 more 5v5 points than Vladimir Sobotka last year playing 3 more minutes a night.
The claim that ROR is a 1C is far less absurd than the claim that he's a 2-3C, as in he might not be good enough to be a 2C.
61 points with 4th line usage and his ES play falling off the map because of it, even though his expected goals and all underlying numbers at ES were better this year than in previous Sabres seasons. Any analysis of more than just pointz puts him as a top 20-25 center in the league, which is comfortable to be called a 1C, if not a franchise 1C.
61 points with 4th line usage and his ES play falling off the map because of it, even though his expected goals and all underlying numbers at ES were better this year than in previous Sabres seasons. Any analysis of more than just pointz puts him as a top 20-25 center in the league, which is comfortable to be called a 1C, if not a franchise 1C.
I've been watching Blues games to watch our haul for weeks now. This is foolish. Sobotka isn't a quarter of the player ROR is right now, I don't care how many secondary assists he gets while on Tarasenko's line (I've already seen a few). He's a useless player. Like I just said, ROR's PDO was in the 96% range, which hides the fact that all expected metrics would have pushed his ES production better than it has been any other year if he hadn't been used as a defensive mop for hundreds of his minutes with no-upside scenarios. And with that he STILL put up 61 points. Going back to his crummy Bylsma usage with his exact underlying metrics would have pushed him towards 70 points on its own just based on his possession/expected goals/high danger chances, and no player elevated his teammates anywhere near as much as ROR did anyway.
OkimLom
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Source: NHL.com
ROR's EV Goals:
15-16: 12 goals
16-17: 11 goals
17-18: 9 goals
ROR's EV Assists:
15-16: 25 Assists
16-17: 18 Assists
17-18: 25 Assists
ROR's EV Points
15-16: 37 points
16-17: 29 Points
17-18: 34 Points
Eichel EV Goals:
15-16: 16 goals
16-17: 14 goals
17-18: 22 goals
Eichel EV Assists:
15-16: 19 Assists
16-17: 19 Assists
17-18: 20 Assists
Eichel EV Points
15-16: 35 points
16-17: 33 Points
17-18: 42 Points
I don't care if you like the trade, but if you're expecting that because Berglund and Sobotka got combined pointz playing up lines higher than they should on a team that would have been a playoff team had they not had to play guys like Berglund and Sobotka in those roles, we aren't a lot worse in losing one of our three players that could regularly make high end puck plays in a league that is driven by those, and replacing him with guys that are going to play roughly like a ho-hum 3rd liner who doesn't make puck plays and Jason Pominville respectively, you just don't watch hockey.
We could get better as a team because of other factors, but those factors will be overcoming the talent drop that the trade gave us at the NHL level. And you might think that's worth the reset and the Thompson/1st/2nd picks, that's not what I'm arguing. I just can't believe that half the posters in this thread have ever seriously watched a hockey game.
We could get better as a team because of other factors, but those factors will be overcoming the talent drop that the trade gave us at the NHL level. And you might think that's worth the reset and the Thompson/1st/2nd picks, that's not what I'm arguing. I just can't believe that half the posters in this thread have ever seriously watched a hockey game.
OkimLom
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Icicle
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In your opinion. Bob McKenzie sees him as a 2nd line center. Bob McKenzie has league-wide recognition as a talent evaluator/voice of the scouts/GMs of the league.
Aladyyn
they praying for the death of a rockstar
I've never heard a unique and thoughtful take from Bob in talent evaluation. He's a gossip, and that's where his value is.
haseoke39
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Yeah most teams don't win the cup. Do only cup winning 1Cs count now, because that limits the list to what, five guys in the decade?
Icicle
Think big
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And you're writing off half of the statistics that put ROR in a 2nd/3rd line center performance range. At least the shill is doing his job correctly.
Icicle
Think big
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He doesn't have to be unique. He spreads the opinions of people actually paid to do this evaluation stuff.
OkimLom
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ROR in 3 years
PPP: 69 points - about 40%
EVP: 100 points - about 57%
SHP: 7 points - about 3%
Jack in 3 years
PPP: 65 points - about 37%
EVP: 110 points - about 62%
SHP: 2 points - about 1%
Aladyyn
they praying for the death of a rockstar
I'm not the one writing metrics off. You're just stuck on your hill with one season of 5on5 points and individual shots while ignoring everything else.
Icicle
Think big
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You're quick to forget the WAR, etc. You gotta keep up, you can't just ignore your lost arguments.
Aladyyn
they praying for the death of a rockstar
Forget that ROR is in the top 20 forward range in every WAR model in his worst season as a Sabre? I never forgot that.
haseoke39
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He's been ranked a top twenty center by TSN every year for the last few, peaking at #8 this last year, I think. He got more ice time than Jack. Odds are, he leads blues forwards in ice time too.
I think the only people who don't think ROR is a #1 center are the folks who find points to be dispositive. ROR plays a different role.
If your definition of #1C is top offensive center, then you're right. But that's a pretty critically narrow view. ROR was and will be the most utilized forward on his team because he is elite in other ways.
I'm not even a huge fan of hockey WAR models, and I understand precisely what stats can and can't tell us. But everything that a measured fan sees when watching ROR is backed by mathematical foundations, which is a common thread among good NHLers, of which the Sabres now have ~3 proven ones in their forward group.
By good NHLers, I mean guys that could plug into Tampa's puck movement system and fit like a glove, guys with quick-twitch decision-making and passing accuracy, guys with positional intelligence and can make a variety of usually correct puck decisions successfully. Just because Okposo or Berglund can wind up with pointz doesn't mean they contribute to flowing team hockey. They do the exact opposite.
By good NHLers, I mean guys that could plug into Tampa's puck movement system and fit like a glove, guys with quick-twitch decision-making and passing accuracy, guys with positional intelligence and can make a variety of usually correct puck decisions successfully. Just because Okposo or Berglund can wind up with pointz doesn't mean they contribute to flowing team hockey. They do the exact opposite.
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