Value of: Ryan O’Reilly

[Hunter368]

However what about Carolina or the Islanders? Those teams might like a deal that doesn’t require a ton of real cash.

Go for it, I don't care about any budget team.....contenders are nearly always cap teams. Neither of them are contenders

 

[AvsCOL]

Oh my goodness the delusion in this thread.

O'Reilly isn't worth $7.5m, never was. His 5v5 production is awful.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Correct. He was a near certain / elite young NHLer. A top 5 under 21 NHLer.

So while the ask for ROR is a comparable (top pair, prime aged, term based, defensemen), we would also accept Ivan Provorov

Jones was Nashville's 5th defenseman when traded, he was behind Weber, Josi, Ekholm and Ellis. After spending 13-14 in the top-4, he lost that position to Ekholm and Ellis. C-bus was trading for the potential (and they were right). He wasn't "near elite", he'd slid down the roster in the last year before being traded.

Provorov is Philly's #1 defenseman this year, so that's a bad comparison in and of itself.

The comparison would be ROR for Hanifin, which I wouldn't do as a Hurricanes fan (because ROR's contract sucks).

 

[Jame]

Jones was Nashville's 5th defenseman when traded, he was behind Weber, Josi, Ekholm and Ellis. After spending 13-14 in the top-4, he lost that position to Ekholm and Ellis. C-bus was trading for the potential (and they were right). He wasn't "near elite", he'd slid down the roster in the last year before being traded.

Provorov is Philly's #1 defenseman this year, so that's a bad comparison in and of itself.

The comparison would be ROR for Hanifin, which I wouldn't do as a Hurricanes fan (because ROR's contract sucks).

Yea. And those of us with eyes could see what he was. Nashville’s elite top 4 wasn’t a blindfold

And RORs contract doesn’t suck

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Yea. And those of us with eyes could see what he was. Nashville’s elite top 4 wasn’t a blindfold

lol

YeAnd RORs contract doesn’t suck

It does. A team saves less than 700k a year buying him out because he's paid in guarenteed signing bonuses. If he declines, you're stuck with 7 mil in dead space.

 

[Jame]

lol



It does. A team saves less than 700k a year buying him out because he's paid in guarenteed signing bonuses. If he declines, you're stuck with 7 mil in dead space.

Yes, capable player scouting is laugh out loud funny

Why are you taking about buying out a 60+ point 1st line, selke caliber center, whose 5 years run to age 31?

I mean... I know you’re burned on Jordan Staal’s 45 point seasons, but ROR is a significantly better player.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

lol



It does. A team saves less than 700k a year buying him out because he's paid in guarenteed signing bonuses. If he declines, you're stuck with 7 mil in dead space.

Why would anyone buy him out? Lol. It's like saying your going to buy out Toews in his prime?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Yes, capable player scouting is laugh out loud funny

That's my default reaction to any and all arguments framed along these lines: "I'm right. I can't prove it, but I'm right"

Watch: "You're wrong. I watched him in Nashville, he belonged on their 3rd pairing, in a sheltered role." What is soneone supposed to do with that?

Why are you taking about buying out a 60+ point 1st line, selke caliber center, whose 5 years run to age 31?

Why would anyone buy him out? Lol. It's like saying your going to buy out Toews in his prime?

Why does any player get bought out?

Note: not a rhetorical question.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

That's my default reaction to any and all arguments framed along these lines: "I'm right. I can't prove it, but I'm right"

Watch: "You're wrong. I watched him in Nashville, he belonged on their 3rd pairing, in a sheltered role." What is soneone supposed to do with that?





Why does any player get bought out?

Note: not a rhetorical question.

Usually because the players contract is bad, or his contact exceeds the players usefulness , neither would apply to O'Reilly.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Lol. This thread has turned into full blown idiocy real quick. Potential ROR buyout? Refering to a 21 year old defenseman who was playing ~20 minutes a night as a #5 d-man. Such nonsense.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Usually because the players contract is bad, or his contact exceeds the players usefulness , neither would apply to O'Reilly.

....But he's signed for 5 more years...?

Lol. This thread has turned into full blown idiocy real quick. Potential ROR buyout? Refering to a 21 year old defenseman who was playing ~20 minutes a night as a #5 d-man. Such nonsense.

In 14-15 and 15-16, Jones was 5th in es toi per 60 for Nashville. In the thread on the preds board discussing the trade, Jones is referred to as a guy on our 3rd pairing (with huge upside). In 14-15, his most common linemate was Volchenkov, who himself played only 11 es minutes a game that year. I can dig this stuff up when I get home, but you're more than free to check for yourself in the interrgnum.

 

[cg98]

Oh my goodness the delusion in this thread.

O'Reilly isn't worth $7.5m, never was. His 5v5 production is awful.

Only 22 of his 60 points are PP points and its not like his 14 PP goals are a bad thing to have on a team.

 

[Chan790]

Only 22 of his 60 points are PP points and its not like his 14 PP goals are a bad thing to have on a team.

He plays a physical style of game where guys break down young...I wouldn't be comfortable with that contract on our books.

He's not ideally what the Canes need, even if he is the best C available this offseason, after Tavares. That would be a primarily offensive guy. I'd rather wait longer for the right guy than trade for ROR.

 

[Mattilaus]

He plays a physical style of game where guys break down young...I wouldn't be comfortable with that contract on our books.

He's not ideally what the Canes need, even if he is the best C available this offseason, after Tavares. That would be a primarily offensive guy. I'd rather wait longer for the right guy than trade for ROR.

No he doesn't.....during his time in Buffalo he has a high of 10 pims last year (2 this year) and 42 hits (21 last year and 17 the year before). In the last three years he has placed 9th, 10th, and 5th for the Lady Byng. He won the Byng in 2014...

Even if he was, power forwards usually aren't broken down and useless by 31.

 

[cg98]

He plays a physical style of game where guys break down young...I wouldn't be comfortable with that contract on our books.

He's not ideally what the Canes need, even if he is the best C available this offseason, after Tavares. That would be a primarily offensive guy. I'd rather wait longer for the right guy than trade for ROR.

Your argument for his style of play is invalid, since his career started hes played anywhere from 70 games to the entire season. He's been productive at every level hes played at, including international events.

 

[is the answer jesus]

....But he's signed for 5 more years...?

And he just turned 27... He may start to slip the last couple years of his contract, but watching him night in and night out, I wouldn't bet on it. His game isn't built on speed, it's built on an extremely high hockey IQ, strong work ethic, with a good amount of skill. Mostly things that won't degrade as he gets older.

In 14-15 and 15-16, Jones was 5th in es toi per 60 for Nashville. In the thread on the preds board discussing the trade, Jones is referred to as a guy on our 3rd pairing (with huge upside). In 14-15, his most common linemate was Volchenkov, who himself played only 11 es minutes a game that year. I can dig this stuff up when I get home, but you're more than free to check for yourself in the interrgnum.

First off in 14-15 he played the 3rd most minutes on the blueline behind Josi and Weber. When those minutes were played (PP, PK, ES) is irrelevant. The following season Ellis, Ekholm, and Jones all played similar minutes, without deep diving into the minutes I'd venture to guess both Ellis and Ekholm's minutes increased after the team traded a defenseman who averaged around 20 minutes a night. Ultimately none of that really matters, what minutes Jones played on one of the best and deepest bluelines we've seen in decades is irrelevant. He was a 21 year old defenseman, selected 4th overall and he was playing a very significant role on his team. If a team wants to trade a piece like that for O'Reilly I'm listening.

He plays a physical style of game where guys break down young...I wouldn't be comfortable with that contract on our books.

He's not ideally what the Canes need, even if he is the best C available this offseason, after Tavares. That would be a primarily offensive guy. I'd rather wait longer for the right guy than trade for ROR.

Not really. He isn't afraid to go into the dirty areas, but his game isn't all that physical.

 

[Jame]

Why does any player get bought out?

Note: not a rhetorical question.

Players get bought out for all sorts of reasons... here’s a good indication of players who aren’t getting bought out anytime soon.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

First off in 14-15 he played the 3rd most minutes on the blueline behind Josi and Weber.

In terms of es minutes, this is because jones played 82 games while ekholm/ellis played 58 and 80.

When those minutes were played (PP, PK, ES) is irrelevant

Uh, excuse me, you can't claim that calling Jones a 3rd pairing guy is "nonsense", then claim that the demarcation between es, pp and pk doesn't matter. 3rd pairing is refers to a players' es deployment.

(And I didn't call him a #5 anyway, I was pointing out that he was 5th in toi/60 )

. The following season Ellis, Ekholm, and Jones all played similar minutes, without deep diving into the minutes
I'd venture to guess both Ellis and Ekholm's minutes increased after the team traded a defenseman who averaged around 20 minutes a night.
.

Then you'd be wrong, since Jones is still 5th on the dcorp in toi/60 when you only factor toi distribution until right before his trade.

Ultimately none of that really matters, what minutes Jones played on one of the best and deepest bluelines we've seen in decades is irrelevant.
.

Then why did you feel the need to comment? lol.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

....But he's signed for 5 more years...?

But he's 27. He has the perfect contract.

 

[Drij]

what the hell is wins above replacement?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Players get bought out for all sorts of reasons...

Exactly!

No one disputs that ROR is playing well atm. That's not the issue.

But he's 27. He has the perfect contract.

Please reread the thread of comments.

 

[Jame]

Exactly!

No one disputs that ROR is playing well atm. That's not the issue.



Please reread the thread of comments.

Kinda funny to listen to you dismiss the “eye” defense on Seth jones, and then die on this silly buyout Hill.


I have to admit, it’s been fun listening to the fan bases of every non contender team make their lame pitches for ROR throughout the year... followed by their explanations of why he’s not exactly what they know he is.

 

[Mattilaus]

Kinda funny to listen to you dismiss the “eye” defense on Seth jones, and then die on this silly buyout Hill.


I have to admit, it’s been fun listening to the fan bases of every non contender team make their lame pitches for ROR throughout the year... followed by their explanations of why he’s not exactly what they know he is.

"Hey, we want the ROR. I mean he sucks, can't produce 5V5, is overrated defensively, isn't fast enough, is a mid to low end 2nd line C at best, and is clearly declining at age 27. Given all that, we want him anyways to be our 1st line C. So how about a 3rd round pick to take him off your hands and save you from that terrible contract?"

 

[AslanRH]

Kinda funny to listen to you dismiss the “eye” defense on Seth jones, and then die on this silly buyout Hill.


I have to admit, it’s been fun listening to the fan bases of every non contender team make their lame pitches for ROR throughout the year... followed by their explanations of why he’s not exactly what they know he is.

"Hey, we want the ROR. I mean he sucks, can't produce 5V5, is overrated defensively, isn't fast enough, is a mid to low end 2nd line C at best, and is clearly declining at age 27. Given all that, we want him anyways to be our 1st line C. So how about a 3rd round pick to take him off your hands and save you from that terrible contract?"

Won't lie, most Avs fans are glad to have someone else dealing with this after all the years we had to do it.

Then again, some of those ROR to Buffalo threads went that direction a lot too.

 

[is the answer jesus]

In terms of es minutes, this is because jones played 82 games while ekholm/ellis played 58 and 80.
It had nothing to do with the amount of games played. Jones ATOI was greater than both Ekholm and Ellis that year. The following year they were all very close (within a minute or so per game). 20:54 for Ellis, 20:15 for Ekholm, and 19:39 for Jones.

Uh, excuse me, you can't claim that calling Jones a 3rd pairing guy is "nonsense", then claim that the demarcation between es, pp and pk doesn't matter. 3rd pairing is refers to a players' es deployment.

(And I didn't call him a #5 anyway, I was pointing out that he was 5th in toi/60 )

Your description was "Nashville's 5th Defenseman that lost his position to Ekholm and Ellis". Not "defenseman that was 5th in toi/60". If you had made that statement I would have taken no exception to it. The Predators wisely realized that Jones was a dynamic offensive defenseman and Ekholm and Ellis were very capable defensive defenseman, so they distributed ice time to maximize each players skillset. If you want to perpetuate some stupid ass belief that Jones lost his job to Ekholm and Ellis the burden should be on you to prove it. The reality is Ekholm Ellis and Jones are all great defenseman and they all had significant roles on that Preds team. Those 3 guys are and were at the time better than most teams top pair.

Then you'd be wrong, since Jones is still 5th on the dcorp in toi/60 when you only factor toi distribution until right before his trade.
OK. Let's see the #'s.


Then why did you feel the need to comment? lol.

Because calling Jones (who averaged close to 20 minutes a night) a 5th defenseman is akin to calling Malkin a 2nd line center. It may technically be correct, but it's a stupid statement to make.