Player Discussion Ryan Nugent-Hopkins '17-18 Season

[Spawn]

This RNH was present last year as well. Just hidden by extremely low shooting % so fans couldnt see past that. Loved Nuge last year and love him equally this year. Incredible talent and in argument for 2nd best player on this team

Let the kid grow and develop even more and could be a dominant 2nd line center

He shot at 9% last year. That was just 2% below his career average of 11%. That's not that far off... If you categorize that as "extremely low" I'd be curious how you categorize his shooting percentage this season. 2% off his career shooting percentage is one thing. He's shooting at 17% so far this season. If one of the past two years is an anomaly, it's this one.

Don't get me wrong, he's playing very well. But it's a disservice to him to suggest that the only difference between his play this year and last year is shooting %. For as good as he's been this year, he sucked last year. He deserves credit for being far more assertive in the offensive zone.

His defensive game still isn't very good, but he's finally making up for it with some outstanding offensive production in a 2nd line role.

 

[ujju2]

He shot at 9% last year. That was just 2% below his career average of 11%. That's not that far off... If you categorize that as "extremely low" I'd be curious how you categorize his shooting percentage this season. 2% off his career shooting percentage is one thing. He's shooting at 17% so far this season. If one of the past two years is an anomaly, it's this one.

Don't get me wrong, he's playing very well. But it's a disservice to him to suggest that the only difference between his play this year and last year is shooting %. For as good as he's been this year, he sucked last year. He deserves credit for being far more assertive in the offensive zone.

His defensive game still isn't very good, but he's finally making up for it with some outstanding offensive production in a 2nd line role.

Defence is definitely a relative thing. If you want to criticize Nuge's defensive play, go ahead, but name a top 9 player on this team besides McDavid who's better. Don't say Puljujarvi.

 

[McNuge]

Defence is definitely a relative thing. If you want to criticize Nuge's defensive play, go ahead, but name a top 9 player on this team besides McDavid who's better. Don't say Puljujarvi.

I think Drai is the best defensive forward when he tries to be, same with McDavid. But they seem to float a bit defensively on occasion, more so McDavid in his own zone. Nuge is (IMO) the 3rd best defensive forward on the team, and tries on a more consistent basis.

Puljujarvi has been very impressive defensively though, I am happier with his defensive game than I am his offensive game.

 

[ujju2]

I think Drai is the best defensive forward when he tries to be, same with McDavid. But they seem to float a bit defensively on occasion, more so McDavid in his own zone. Nuge is (IMO) the 3rd best defensive forward on the team, and tries on a more consistent basis.

Puljujarvi has been very impressive defensively though, I am happier with his defensive game than I am his offensive game.

I understand what you're saying, but Draisaitl does float around defensively a bit too much for my liking. Also, besides McDavid, I do think Nuge is the best forward on this team at stripping the puck from opposing players, which maybe I value a bit too much. That also has to do with not floating around, I think.

 

[McNuge]

I understand what you're saying, but Draisaitl does float around defensively a bit too much for my liking. Also, besides McDavid, I do think Nuge is the best forward on this team at stripping the puck from opposing players, which maybe I value a bit too much. That also has to do with not floating around, I think.

Oh yeah, they both float a little too much, but when they are on there game they are unbelievable.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Been saying this for years. It's going to be really hard for teams to match against this kind of depth.
McDavid was matched against Thornton's line.
Draisaitl took over the Hertl line.

Nuge was left to feast on the Tierney's line.

Tierney has never broken 23 points in a season.


I can't think of many teams with a 3rd Center better than Nuge.

 

[ujju2]

Oh yeah, they both float a little too much, but when they are on there game they are unbelievable.

Agreed. I just think Nuge is better defensively than Drai because consistency matters. We basically agree on this though.

 

[Spawn]

Defence is definitely a relative thing. If you want to criticize Nuge's defensive play, go ahead, but name a top 9 player on this team besides McDavid who's better. Don't say Puljujarvi.

Nuge is the 3rd best defensive center on the team.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[LTIR]

Nuge is the 3rd best defensive center on the team.

I'll leave it at that.

You must love Letestu

 

[Spawn]

You must love Letestu

Letestu would be 4th.

 

[nabob]

Nuge is the 3rd best defensive center on the team.

I'll leave it at that.

Of course someone who has dedicated 90% his posts in the last 6 months to pointing out how much Nuge sucks would say this. Anyone who regularly watches hockey knows better.

 

[McFlyingV]

Of course someone who has dedicated 90% his posts in the last 6 months to pointing out how much Nuge sucks would say this. Anyone who regularly watches hockey knows better.

I think McDavid and Drai are both capable of playing better defensive hockey than RNH when they're on their game, but I think both are also prone to some inconsistency which is probably due to youth. To me RNH's defensive game is the most consistent on the team, but is not as high level as both McDavid or Drai when each player is at their best.

 

[belair]

If I had to pick out a weakness in McDavid's game, it'd be his defense. There's no way in hell he's better at defensive reads than Ryan Nugent-Hopkins at this point in his career.. Arguable that Draisaitl is as well. Then again, we're talking defense--an HF pissing match.

 

[McFlyingV]

If I had to pick out a weakness in McDavid's game, it'd be his defense. There's no way in hell he's better at defensive reads than Ryan Nugent-Hopkins at this point in his career.. Arguable that Draisaitl is as well. Then again, we're talking defense--an HF pissing match.

I don't disagree with that assessment, but I do think when McDavid and Draisaitl are both engaged and playing their best they are 2-way beasts. When McDavid's really on his game he's winning pucks down low and skating them out with ease, and using his speed on the back check to pick pocket 5 or more times in a single game (i.e. the 1-0 loss against Toronto). Similarly Draisaitl is also a good puck thief when he's on (not that Nuge isn't himself), but absolutely out muscles guys for pucks and turns it into offence the other way (saw this multiple times against Chicago, LA and Anaheim last season).

I just personally think when each player is at their best those 2 have a defensive advantage over Nuge. But I definitely think Nuge is much more consistent in his defensive game and is more cerebral in his defensive reads. He still makes mistakes sometimes, but brings a pretty even keeled defensive game night in and night out.

 

[Laineux]

I think McDavid and Drai are both capable of playing better defensive hockey than RNH when they're on their game, but I think both are also prone to some inconsistency which is probably due to youth. To me RNH's defensive game is the most consistent on the team, but is not as high level as both McDavid or Drai when each player is at their best.

McDavid definitely does some cheating defensively for a center. His wingers are required to take a more defensively responsible role than usual. He can be elite defensively if he wants, but a bit of cherry picking is only good because of his speed and ability to create offense off the rush which is unmatched in the league.

 

[Aerchon]

Nuge has been good to very good through most his career. But in general his overall game has been improving bit by bit after a softmore slump.

His shooting percentage is a bit higher this year and scoring in general across the league is up. That's combined with his development, which many like myself have been saying will take longer to reach his peak than most forwards, are what we are seeing.

Anyone saying Nuge has completely changed/improved his game significantly is exaggerating imo. And those saying he still isn't good to great this year clearly have a rather blinding bias against the player.

I personally see Nuge having his peak/key years/develop basically just starting now and lasting until around 32. Where as less cerebral players based primarily off speed and strength start thier decline or platue around 26 to 28.

Edit: McDavid has been bad to average defensively most this year. Cheating very obviously imo. Last year was elite defensively. Better than Nuge. McDavid is young and development is non linear. I hope he goes back to his great two way play soon.

Outside a couple games Leon has been good defensively this year and because of his size,skill, smarts, and strength is/will be/should be our best two way center.

Leon and Nuge have better two way forwards than McDavid this year but of course McDavid's offense has made him thier equal or better if only marginally imo.

 

[LTIR]

If I had to pick out a weakness in McDavid's game, it'd be his defense. There's no way in hell he's better at defensive reads than Ryan Nugent-Hopkins at this point in his career.. Arguable that Draisaitl is as well. Then again, we're talking defense--an HF pissing match.

McDavid is pretty good at playing in the defensive end. Also, he has plenty weaknesses.
His shot sucks, he overpasses, isnt gritty along the boards and pretty much useless on the PP unless he is carrying the puck in the zone.

 

[Aerchon]

McDavid is pretty good at playing in the defensive end. Also, he has plenty weaknesses.
His shot sucks, he overpasses, isnt gritty along the boards and pretty much useless on the PP unless he is carrying the puck in the zone.

I have been hard on McDavid this year but that's going too far.

I mildly disagree with most everything you said in your post.

He has been playing higher/cheating in the defensive zone this year I think. He has a great shot but does overpass. Is gritty along the boards. And obviously good on the PP, but needs to shoot more to improve the PP.

 

[Aceboogie]

He shot at 9% last year. That was just 2% below his career average of 11%. That's not that far off... If you categorize that as "extremely low" I'd be curious how you categorize his shooting percentage this season. 2% off his career shooting percentage is one thing. He's shooting at 17% so far this season. If one of the past two years is an anomaly, it's this one.

Don't get me wrong, he's playing very well. But it's a disservice to him to suggest that the only difference between his play this year and last year is shooting %. For as good as he's been this year, he sucked last year. He deserves credit for being far more assertive in the offensive zone.

His defensive game still isn't very good, but he's finally making up for it with some outstanding offensive production in a 2nd line role.

You can look in any of the old RNH threads from last year, I was pretty vocal about his abysmal luck stats and how his stats would rebound and fans would come to love him again.

His shooting % was 6.85%, which was the second lowest for all Oiler forwards besides Kassian. He had the lowest PDO on the Oilers for active players. He had amongst the highest difference in the entire NHL between actual goals for, and expected goals for. The list goes on

Ofcourse as with most every luck stat, things have normalized this year. Now hes shooting 13.73% (4th on the Oilers), PDO is pretty much dead even and hes even got more actual goals than expected goals.

So Im pretty much the least surprised person in the world about how RNH is perceived this year

 

[shoop]

Letestu would be 4th.

Nurse and Larsson don't play centre.

 

[Aerchon]

This whole debate to me just points out how awesome it is to have 3 great centers. 4 really cause Letestu is an awesome 4th line center to boot.

I actually really like Strome as a bottom 6 center as well.

Really hope Chiarelli keeps all three of McDavid, Leon, and Nuge for as long as possible. I would be stoked to see all 3 resign with the Oil and retire Oilers if possible with what I have seen.

 

[yababy]

He shot at 9% last year. That was just 2% below his career average of 11%. That's not that far off... If you categorize that as "extremely low" I'd be curious how you categorize his shooting percentage this season. 2% off his career shooting percentage is one thing. He's shooting at 17% so far this season. If one of the past two years is an anomaly, it's this one.

Don't get me wrong, he's playing very well. But it's a disservice to him to suggest that the only difference between his play this year and last year is shooting %. For as good as he's been this year, he sucked last year. He deserves credit for being far more assertive in the offensive zone.

His defensive game still isn't very good, but he's finally making up for it with some outstanding offensive production in a 2nd line role.

this is why we need to sell high on Nuge.
I'm not forgetting last years playoffs - 4 assists and minus 3 in 13 games

Chiarelli has a pretty good track record of waiting until player is at his lowest value before trading - so I think Nuge will be an Oiler for a while yet

 

[nabob]

McDavid is pretty good at playing in the defensive end. Also, he has plenty weaknesses.
His shot sucks, he overpasses, isnt gritty along the boards and pretty much useless on the PP unless he is carrying the puck in the zone.

Here we go again with people saying his shot sucks.

 

[Soundwave]

this is why we need to sell high on Nuge.
I'm not forgetting last years playoffs - 4 assists and minus 3 in 13 games

Chiarelli has a pretty good track record of waiting until player is at his lowest value before trading - so I think Nuge will be an Oiler for a while yet

Don't we need to trade Draisaitl too according to you?

If there's some kind of package where like Erik Karlsson is on the table and RNH is what's needed to get us over the top, sure you do it in that case, but trading him just for the sake of trading him doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Spawn]

Nurse and Larsson don't play centre.

No... but McDavid and draisaitl both do. And they are both better defensively than Nuge at 5v5. McDavid is better on the PK as well.