Player Discussion Ryan Nugent-Hopkins '17-18 Season

[jukon]

You could say that Nuge has more pressure to improve, but generally you need everyone on the team to improve from last year. If you are not improving year over year you had better hope your contract won't be a weight on the team.

 

[Dorian2]

Man, I'm still pro Nuge. I'll agree that he has to pick it up offensivley, but to poo-poo his contributions against top lines and players is laughable IMO. He's very solid defensively. Hope he gets injured for a while so we can see what we're like without him. That'll make for a good discussion I'm sure.

 

[GMofOilers]

Easily we can replace him for a 3 to 4 M 3rd line center that is even better defensively and can put up 40 points.

Thats the route we will be going soon.

 

[The Moose]

Easily we can replace him for a 3 to 4 M 3rd line center that is even better defensively and can put up 40 points.

Thats the route we will be going soon.

Really? Who's that available center?

 

[GMofOilers]

Really? Who's that available center?

We really should of traded Nuge this summer and signed Bonino.

 

[GMofOilers]

I would target Bozak out of TO. They will need cap space one year.

 

[McTedi]

We really should of traded Nuge this summer and signed Bonino.

Ewww...the guy that gets criticized for being the laziest player in the league. Personally I think JJ could be our 3C, Nuge gets shipped regardless. Not sure why people aren't seeing that yet.

 

[frag2]

I still think its too early to judge Nuge's game. He is a guy that by many accounts picks up the finer points of the game and improves.

A very very successful year, if he plays on the third line as projected, will be 40 points, plus anything, and improved face offs. Him and JJ are basically Jessies personal tutors, babysitters, teachers, and are there to make sure he develops in a proper 200 foot game manner.

Kinda interesting that management put the screws to him to be better offensively but yet have put him in a position where it is basically impossible to get more points than in previous years. Less ice time and worse line mates really limits his opportunities. If his line is used as anything other than a soft quality of competition/weak match ups type line, I think its safe to say Nuge is being set up to fail.

Ill agree that I think he knows what it takes to be a good 2 way player except execution hasnt been his forte.

I also am not 100% sure he 'improves' either.

 

[belair]

Ewww...the guy that gets criticized for being the laziest player in the league. Personally I think JJ could be our 3C, Nuge gets shipped regardless. Not sure why people aren't seeing that yet.

So Nuge out and Khaira takes his place? Yeah, we wouldn't skip a beat.

 

[Fourier]

I would target Bozak out of TO. They will need cap space one year.

Bozak will be looking for $5M+ or he will walk. He is an offensively minded center who is more suited to playing with offensively gifted wingers. This is not the role he would have in Edmonton.

 

[MessierII]

Man, I'm still pro Nuge. I'll agree that he has to pick it up offensivley, but to poo-poo his contributions against top lines and players is laughable IMO. He's very solid defensively. Hope he gets injured for a while so we can see what we're like without him. That'll make for a good discussion I'm sure.

So solid defensively that he can't be trusted to take a D zone draw and was the heaviest - on the team by double the next player? Can we just admit his defensive game is grossly overrated by homers on this board?

 

[McShogun99]

So solid defensively that he can't be trusted to take a D zone draw and was the heaviest - on the team by double the next player? Can we just admit his defensive game is grossly overrated by homers on this board?

RNH is nowhere close to a defensive player. He's a PP specialist, playmaking center. That's the type of player we drafted but we are trying to force him to be a center like Bergeron. RNH is a very intelligent player so maybe he can develop into that type of player still.

 

[Fourier]

Easily we can replace him for a 3 to 4 M 3rd line center that is even better defensively and can put up 40 points.

Thats the route we will be going soon.

Here is the complete list of actual centers to choose from that have averaged between 35-45 points per year over the last 3 years:
Paul Stastny
Mika Zibanajed
Adam Henrique *
Kevin Hayes *
Vincent Trochek
Mikael Backlund *
Matthew Perrault *
Victor Rask *
Brandan Dubinsky
Alex Wennberg
Bo Horvat
Jordan Staal
Artem Anisimov
Travis Zajac
Carl Soderberg
Sean Couturier *
Ryan Spooner *
Nick Bonino *

A * means that their salary is in less than $4.5M.

Which of these guys 1) played as a third line center, 2) are better defensively than Nuge and 3) would be easy to juts go get?

Nuge may well get traded. But I think people need to recognize that thinking that there are available cheaper options who are just as good is unreasonable.

 

[shoop]

Ewww...the guy that gets criticized for being the laziest player in the league. Personally I think JJ could be our 3C, Nuge gets shipped regardless. Not sure why people aren't seeing that yet.

Nuge to Khaira is a huge step down.

I'd much rather see Letestu as 3C over Khaira. Still a big step down from Nuge.

McDavid/Draisaitl/Nuge/Letestu is an incredible starting four centres.

Not so affordable starting next season, but it's something we should enjoy while it lasts.

 

[Dorian2]

So solid defensively that he can't be trusted to take a D zone draw and was the heaviest - on the team by double the next player? Can we just admit his defensive game is grossly overrated by homers on this board?

As soon as you admit that his entire game is grossly under rated by his detractors.....sure. Seems that whenever someone points out a good quality of Nuge's game, posters will say he's being over rated. Just because he's making a dumb ass amount of money thanks to previous Managment doesn't equate to him being as poor a player that he's likened to by a few posters here, yourself included. I don't like his lack of improvment at taking FO's, his lack of points, or his salary. No point in just belittling his positives that he brings, many of which do not tend to be recognized here. If we get a better player for the team through trade, great. People suggesting Khaira over Nuge is a fine example of what I'm talking about here.

 

[McTedi]

So Nuge out and Khaira takes his place? Yeah, we wouldn't skid a beat.

I mean Jokinen for 3C

 

[Hynh]

Here is the complete list of actual centers to choose from that have averaged between 35-45 points per year over the last 3 years:
Paul Stastny
Mika Zibanajed
Adam Henrique *
Kevin Hayes *
Vincent Trochek
Mikael Backlund *
Matthew Perrault *
Victor Rask *
Brandan Dubinsky
Alex Wennberg
Bo Horvat
Jordan Staal
Artem Anisimov
Travis Zajac
Carl Soderberg
Sean Couturier *
Ryan Spooner *
Nick Bonino *

A * means that their salary is in less than $4.5M.

Which of these guys 1) played as a third line center, 2) are better defensively than Nuge and 3) would be easy to juts go get?

Nuge may well get traded. But I think people need to recognize that thinking that there are available cheaper options who are just as good is unreasonable.

Could you imagine the impotent rage if Backlund signed with the Oilers for cheap?

 

[McTedi]

As soon as you admit that his entire game is grossly under rated by his detractors.....sure. Seems that whenever someone points out a good quality of Nuge's game, posters will say he's being over rated. Just because he's making a dumb ass amount of money thanks to previous Managment doesn't equate to him being as poor a player that he's likened to by a few posters here, yourself included. I don't like his lack of improvment at taking FO's, his lack of points, or his salary. No point in just belittling his positives that he brings, many of which do not tend to be recognized here. If we get a better player for the team through trade, great. People suggesting Khaira over Nuge is a fine example of what I'm talking about here.

Obviously Khaira doesn't replace Nuge but Jokinen would be decent in that 3C spot. I like Nuge but at 6mil per he needs to play top 6.

 

[Fourier]

Could you imagine the impotent rage if Backlund signed with the Oilers for cheap?

Backlund has turned himself into an excellent #2C and is one of the best bargains in hockey. He's also 28 and at the same age that Nuge is now he was barely an NHL'er. People tend to forget that despite being in the league for 6 years Nuge is still very young.

If Backlund has a similar year this year to last he could easily get $6M on the open market.

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

So I see we're still having the same arguement about Nuge... he's really in a no-win situation when it comes to this board. Play safe and be the first guy back... no offense he sucks, worst 1OA since yak/stephan. Take a chance or screw up and his defense is a joke.

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement because there is, but so much hyperbole... can we at least wait for the season to start before we run him out of town? We should really be overjoyed at having him on the roster because it gives us the flexibility to run Drai at c or stack McD's line. Nuge might not be an OMG player, but he's a solid c that you can put out against tough comp. How soon we have forgotten what it's like having no depth at c.

What I'm hoping for from him this year:
- About 10 more points from taking smart chances, driving instead of peeling off in case it goes the other way. We'll see what happens with 29 and whether 93 sees reduced QoC or still takes the Pavelskis. Confidence in himself and his linemates will be huge.
- More strength on his skates. He's not the toothpick he was a few years ago but the training with his brother thing has always been a question mark with me, not sure if that's what he did again this summer or not.
- slight improvement in face offs, I expect a couple points improvement but this issue is generally over blown, both in how bad he is and the overall affect. That said, key face offs can change a game and I hope for improvement.

Overall I expect to see a more dynamic Nuge. I really feel that he was kinda jammed into the Bergeron role a few years back and that sucked the life out of his offense. A combination of coaching and just knowing that if he makes a mistake it's going the other way because of coasting linemates and subpar D and G has lead to the Nuge we saw last year, Mr play it safe. That's not making excuses for him, that's just how I see it. Knowing that you can't count on anyone behind you changes how you see your responsibilities.
However what he does or doesn't do this year is all on him, this isn't Eakins era anymore, we have a team. Put up some good point stats and he'll go from whipping boy to a bargain at 6mil in a hurry.

Meanwhile, looking forward to tomorrow.. don't really like the split squad games but whatever, can't wait

 

[Hynh]

Backlund has turned himself into an excellent #2C and is one of the best bargains in hockey. He's also 28 and at the same age that Nuge is now he was barely an NHL'er. People tend to forget that despite being in the league for 6 years Nuge is still very young.

If Backlund has a similar year this year to last he could easily get $6M on the open market.

I know that. I'm just saying, how funny it would be?

 

[Fourier]

I know that. I'm just saying, how funny it would be?

Sorry, I did understand your post and yes I am sure there would be a few fans down south that would go nuts, though I am also sure you would quickly hear how it was all a mirage and that he was just being carried by their big stars.

 

[belair]

I mean Jokinen for 3C

That isn't much better to be honest. Jokinen is an example of what I've been calling a 'plug and play veteran'. He's a guy that didn't have a ton of interest on the FA market as a guy in the twilight of his career. He's coming off of a horrid season where he was bought out at the end of it, so we were able to sign him to a very cap friendly deal. We'll see a lot of these types in the coming years to fill out our roster IMO. This season one of two things are likely to happen with Jokinen...

1. He's going to continue to struggle to keep up with the speed of the game and he'll be buried in our depth chart.

Or 2. He's going to find a niche in this line up, return to form and ultimately price himself out of Edmonton as he's likely going to want to earn something close to his previous salary.

Like Fourier mentioned, there is no replacing RNH. A player of his caliber is going to cost you something close to his salary. And with a GM and a coach who come from teams who historically built from the center out, I wouldn't be shocked to see them find a way to work him into their future payroll should Draisaitl struggle to build on his scoring pace apart from Connor.

Draisaitl makes $8.5m now. If he runs into the same problems RNH had last season facing that type of opposition with less support, he's going to stick out like a sore thumb. Having RNH to fill that role provides an option to allow Drai to flank McDavid and continue their dominance.

Of course another possibility is the development of Ryan Strome, but the expectations should be very limited for him at this point.

 

[The Moose]

Time for overly optimistic predictions: Nuge will a have a huge year and will end up second in scoring behind McDavid.

 

[Dorian2]

Time for overly optimistic predictions: Nuge will a have a huge year and will end up second in scoring behind McDavid.

What nonsense is this Moose?