fivehole32
Kicking rebounds to the slot
- Jan 11, 2015
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News Article: Ryan Lambert: Drew Doughty has never been NHL's best defenseman
- Thread starter kingsfan28
- Start date
Bee Sheriff
Bad Boy Postingâ„¢
Legionnaire
Help On The Way
Didn't know this guy knew hockey.
What I keep thinking when I see the thread title. The guy from American Idol knows hockey? Wow. Impressive. Where does he find the time?
Sydor25
LA Kings
Doughty vs. Karlsson: Who is the Better Franchise Cornerstone?
http://thehockeywriters.com/doughty-vs-karlsson-best-defenseman/
http://thehockeywriters.com/doughty-vs-karlsson-best-defenseman/
Herby
Now I can die in peace
Very well written and fair article. The last sentence about debating all the way to the Hall of Fame is spot on.
Sadly, on HFBoards both the Ottawa and LA fanbases are for the most part not capable of having a mature debate when it comes to the players. Some of the stuff said about Doughty and Karlsson by the other fanbases is straight up comical, sad that people can't enjoy watching two generational future Hall of Fame players play in their primes without taking stupid potshots at the other guy.
Actually I'm not even going to read the article. I watch most Kings' games and a lot of eastern games, likely cause I'm in the central time zone, and the headline of the thread says enough for me that the writer, Mr. Lambert?, knows nothing about Drew Doughty and his play. He may not be the "best" defenseman in the league right now but I have a hard time understanding the success of the current Kings' team with the apparently "poor" defense they are alleged to have. 71 goals against over 32 games is nothing to sneeze at and for that I blame essentially Messrs. Doughty and Quick. And he could have easily won best defenseman honors in both the 2012 Stanley Cup year and the 2014 SC/Olympic year as not. There is a major eastern bias in the voting; I have a hard enough time watching Kings' games starting at 930 pm my time. Does anybody really think sports writers in the east are watching games starting at 1030 pm their time?
the thing that gets me is if you're a hockey writer it should be part of your job to watch teams. If not live than PVR'd.
ScoreZeGoals
Boooorrrrriiiinnnnng
- Jun 29, 2010
- 17,441
- 7,060
I couldn't agree more. I have no issue with the mindset that Karlsson is better than Doughty (I disagree), just don't be ridiculous and say it's not even close like some people tend to do.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Best take I've seen so far really, or at least one that tries to tackle all sides of the issue.
My biggest beef with the whole 'debate' on the Norris period is that offensive performance is easily quantifiable in points, defensive performance is not easily quantifiable in anything...'goals prevented' would be next to impossible to determine, and other stats like GA/60 and +/- don't come close to capturing it. It's easy to go for the offensive guy in such scenarios because when someone says "well show me how x is better defensively" there's nothing simple and elegant that can.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
It's still crazy to think the Kings could very easily ended up with both of them. Karlsson was the next defenseman taken after the Kings flushed that pick down the toilet.
The Kings would have had a generational type dynasty with these two guys playing almost the entire game over a 10 year run.
The Kings would have had a generational type dynasty with these two guys playing almost the entire game over a 10 year run.
yankeeking
Registered User
Unfortunately I learned about this at a young age by not enjoying probably the greatest hockey player all around in Orr simply because I was a ranger fan growing up, even being happy when it was announced he hurt his knee before a playoff series against the rangers , not knowing he would not be the same again, still gives me that bad feeling when his name comes up, enjoy all sport for sport and leave the petty crap for politics lol
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Can't even imagine, sheesh. And a bizarro-world Voynov as well. Nashville levels of defensive depth.
Makes you wonder how either of them would have developed with the other as well instead of on opposite coasts, interesting thought.
triplcrown
Registered User
KingPuckChoo
Go kinGs Go !
- Jun 24, 2007
- 9,947
- 3,689
I was having a good day thanks! 
What could of, should of, would of, Ahhhhhh......Colten Teubert c'mon down! 
PJ Kings Hockey
Registered User
- Oct 15, 2013
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gnarls barkley
Registered User
doughty v karlsson has largely been an example of how people are really bad at objectively judging play (and apparently reading stats)
although, getting kind of annoying to sift through pages of blind fanboyism (on both sides) from the main boards...now that I've read some actually decent arguments for both sides, it's a pretty interesting comparison that's likely a lot closer than a lot of people want to admit.
although, getting kind of annoying to sift through pages of blind fanboyism (on both sides) from the main boards...now that I've read some actually decent arguments for both sides, it's a pretty interesting comparison that's likely a lot closer than a lot of people want to admit.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
It's extremely close, and that is what makes people on both sides say stupid and needless things about the other guy, if they are a Karlsson fan they think talking about Doughty's lack of offense makes Karlsson look better, just like some of the posts on this board saying Karlsson only won the Norris because of bias or that people only look at stat sheets.
Everyone should read yankeekings post, it is spot on. And sadly I feel the same way about some athletes I grew up watching and disliking. Joe Montana, Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman, Michael Jordan. I didn't like the teams they played on, thus hated those players and didn't appreciate that I was watching greatness.
gnarls barkley
Registered User
I agree for the most part, and yankeekings post was spot on I agree.
If you're a real fan of the sport itself (as opposed to only liking your team/player), you can't help but enjoy rare talents like Karlsson, Kane, or even Malkin, but it does really makes it hard to enjoy something to the fullest when it's being constantly shoved in your face.
see also: living in Chicago and listening to ad nauseum grandstanding about Toews in comparison to basically any athlete on earth since '10
I mean, I never liked LeBron, but if you really like basketball as a sport you can't help but appreciate his raw talent on the court - even if he's destroying your favorite team in the process.
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Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
- Jul 6, 2011
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I don't even think Toews is better than Kopitar, let alone the best player on the planet.
But I guess that might feed into the last couple posts, lol.
But I guess that might feed into the last couple posts, lol.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
I just don't think those things are as mutually exclusive as you keep trying to cram down my throat, Herby.
You can be critical of a player, EXTREMELY critical, and still enjoy him. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Hell, I have no doubt plenty of people here love Dustin Brown and absolutely loathe him at the same time right now. Now, going out of your way to manufacture reasons to hate someone to pump 'your guy,' I get, that can be childish--but to point out that a player isn't as immortal and flawless as some are making it seem isn't fanboyism/hatred.
I've watched 15 Sens games this year in their entirety to get a better feel for the player. Fun as hell to watch. You know what? Erik Karlsson is the Dallas Stars of defenseman. Entirely unstoppable on offense, generally disinterested on defense. Drew may be his polar opposite.
You can be critical of a player, EXTREMELY critical, and still enjoy him. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Hell, I have no doubt plenty of people here love Dustin Brown and absolutely loathe him at the same time right now. Now, going out of your way to manufacture reasons to hate someone to pump 'your guy,' I get, that can be childish--but to point out that a player isn't as immortal and flawless as some are making it seem isn't fanboyism/hatred.
I've watched 15 Sens games this year in their entirety to get a better feel for the player. Fun as hell to watch. You know what? Erik Karlsson is the Dallas Stars of defenseman. Entirely unstoppable on offense, generally disinterested on defense. Drew may be his polar opposite.
gnarls barkley
Registered User
yea, a lot of people seem to confuse "I don't think this guy is God's gift to Planet Earth" with "I don't think this guy is good at hockey"
shockingly, there is a middle ground
shockingly, there is a middle ground
Herby
Now I can die in peace
Not at HFBoards.
I stand by what I said, go back and read the stuff said in our "Around the League" threads. "East Coast bias", "stat readers", "4th forward", "undeserving Norris winner" or every time Karlsson has a bad game there are multiple posts calling it out. And go to the Ottawa board or the main board, same exact type of stuff except from the opposite side. Doughty had a bad game in Toronto on national TV and multiple posts saying how he sucks.
I'll just enjoy both of them for what they are, Hall of Fame defenseman in their primes playing at an insane level. Karlsson has 2 Norris trophies and he deserved both of them, and he will probably win more. I think had the Kings been a bit better as a team last year Doughty would have won one, but I have no doubt in my mind that Drew will win multiple Norris trophies before it's all said and done. And yes they are clearly the 1-2 defenseman in the NHL, and I believe Drew is slightly better, I'd just rather talk about Drew's positives than make dumb comments about a truly special talent. But I get that's the way things are in today's sports world, Manning fans trash Brady, Brady fans trash Manning instead of just realizing how amazing it was to have 2 QB's who's careers paralleled each others for so long. But again, it is what it is, but I still think it's an awful way to be a fan,
