Ryan Johansen Saga III

[Heldig]

Hopefully things work out better for Columbus than it did for the Coyotes with Kyle Turris.

 

[CBJRzeznik]

Nathan Horton's contract is more "me me me' than Joey's.

UFA vs RFA....apples and oranges comparison. When Joey becomes UFA, if he has continued to play similar to last year he will rightfully seek/receive big $ and term.

Not to mention...Horton easily would have gotten higher AAV from other offers but took less to come to CBJ.

 

[EDM]

I know i am in a small minority here, but I would be happy it we treded Joey for someone comparable. Joey is clearly a greedy little b######. His public statements ("I a the number one center") are demeaning to and insulting of Dubinsky who is the real heart of the Jackers. The Competitor in Dubie is pissed at what he is hearing. RyJo's delusional megalomaniac view of himself is not compatible with the team concept the Jackets play. While Joey has great physical gifts, his entitlement mentality will hold him back from being what he really can be until he grows up. Trade him if you can JK.

 

[alphafox]

Anyone who thinks this is going to damage the Blue Jackets or their management are missing the point. The Jackets came off their best season ever and managed to parlay that into the largest season ticket sales ever over the summer. The Johansen saga was undercutting alot of the progress the team has made as people just wanted them to throw a few million more at Johansen. By making the offers public to players and fans the jackets let everyone know that the kid and his agent are being unreasonable in the face of offers that are more than fair for a RFA. This has put the black hat squarely on Johansen's camp. Obviously some people are on Johansen's side in this, but this was a calculated move by Jackets management that got the majority of hardcore and casual fans on their side adding more pressure to Johansen, and if you look at twitter and other sources it appears to have worked.

Kurt Overhardt is trying to use this negotiation to change the way RFAs are treated. Even the best RFAs have no negotiating leverage under this CBA. Overhardt is trying to play another game and is treating this as more of a UFA negotiation, but he has sabotaged himself by failing to pull any legitimate offer sheets for his client as well as by asking for UFA money in an RFA negotiation. In contrast, from a negotiation perspective, the Jackets played this well and put Johansen in the position where the only leverage he has is not to play. They kept a massive amount of cap room available and explicitly deterred offer sheets (though given JD's history they didn't really need to).

 

[ndd17]

Horton easily would have gotten higher AAV from other offers but took less to come to CBJ.

Not every team needs megainjured player.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Okay.. anyone close to the situation

I understand that Joey flew back to VanCouver late last week. Is he training at his home? Skating hard? If he comes in and takes a month to get back to game ready shape then he is hurting the team. In fact every day he misses he is hurting the team

 

[CBJRzeznik]

Not every team needs megainjured player.

Your right no other teams would have offered the top (cup-winning) UFA forward more than the 5.3 AAV he took to come to CBJ

 

[Sore Loser]

I understand that Joey flew back to VanCouver late last week. Is he training at his home? Skating hard? If he comes in and takes a month to get back to game ready shape then he is hurting the team. In fact every day he misses he is hurting the team

He and Brendan Dillon are working out/practicing with the WHL's Vancouver Giants.

 

[alphafox]

I understand that Joey flew back to VanCouver late last week. Is he training at his home? Skating hard? If he comes in and takes a month to get back to game ready shape then he is hurting the team. In fact every day he misses he is hurting the team

Last I saw was a tweet that said he was asked not to come to work out with some Junior team due to him being a distraction.

 

[neek21]

When (and if) 19 caves and accepts the offer the Jackets have put in front of him (the 2 year deal), will he pout and piss and moan his way thru the season (and potentially hurt the team more than help)?? Then 'miraculously' play like a man-child possessed in the 2nd year to showcase the big $$ he will think he's due on the next contract?? I wonder.....

 

[pete goegan]

Perhaps someone who follows Porty could post his recent tweets on the continuing negotiations?

 

[alphafox]

When (and if) 19 caves and accepts the offer the Jackets have put in front of him (the 2 year deal), will he pout and piss and moan his way thru the season (and potentially hurt the team more than help)?? Then 'miraculously' play like a man-child possessed in the 2nd year to showcase the big $$ he will think he's due on the next contract?? I wonder.....

This is what I expect. Maybe not due to "pouting', but due to missing training camp. I figure we're going to be in the same position in two years.

 

[pete goegan]

This is what I expect. Maybe not due to "pouting', but due to missing training camp. I figure we're going to be in the same position in two years.

Not quite, he'll still be an RFA, but he'll have arbitration rights, I think. Was it Jarmo who said he wished he had those rights now?

 

[thebus2288*]

OK I understand the comparing Johan to them as players and their contracts but there's one thing that keeps bothering me...Am I the only one who doesn't see Skinner or Seguin as centers? Both guys play on the wing the vast majority of the time right? Or am I crazy.

 

[EDM]

yes Jarmo said that because he was certain, based upon the available evidence, that an arbitrator would side with the Jackets.

 

[EspenK]

Perhaps someone who follows Porty could post his recent tweets on the continuing negotiations?

I don't follow Twitter but if you click on https://twitter.com/Aportzline you'll see the latest

Don't know how long this link works - it might be good forever- but if you go to Puckrakers and click on his twitter link you'll get the latest. Or just google him and click on the link to his Twitter from there.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Remember JD is dealing with a 22 who had the gall to declare that a $ 3 million offer was a "slap interface". I think there are a lot of us who would like to get slapped that hard.

So RyJo should accept JD's lowball offer that pays him well below what he is worth just because you, EDM, would like to get offered $3 million. Great point.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

When (and if) 19 caves and accepts the offer the Jackets have put in front of him (the 2 year deal), will he pout and piss and moan his way thru the season (and potentially hurt the team more than help)?? Then 'miraculously' play like a man-child possessed in the 2nd year to showcase the big $$ he will think he's due on the next contract?? I wonder.....

Yes I'm sure Joey will spend the next two years not trying and just skating around with a frown his face. Please.

 

[Derby]

Yes I'm sure Joey will spend the next two years not trying and just skating around with a frown his face. Please.

Of course, with his newly muscular, buff, ripped body he will look good doing it! We can't lose focus of how hard he's worked all summer and how good he looks now. LOL

 

[Cyclones Rock]

He makes some good points in theory, if you read the 60 comments, nearly everyone is in agreement that johansen and his agent are greedy, trying to compare johansen to Kane and toews.

This gentleman had a great point.......

I did a little research to actually find a couple of comparable players to match up with Johansen. Tyler Seguin and Jeff Skinner are two close matches, same age, same stats for the best year of their entry deal. Seguin 29/38 in 81 games, Skinner 31/32 in 82 games, and Johansen 33/30 in 82 games. Seguin and Skinner both had better stats in their other seasons than Johansen, but we will stick with the best for each. They are all 22 year old 1st/2nd line centers with Skinner now playing wing on top line. Seguin and Skinner both signed 6 year deals for about 5.75 per after their entry deal. Using those comparables, it doesn't seem like the offers from Columbus were that far off the mark.

The Seguin and Skinner comps are very useful. I've used the Skinner deal (6 years $34.4 million) as my primary comp.

Why the CBJ management were so stubborn for so long with their $3m/$3.5 bridge deal is a mystery to me. It seems so obvious that the Skinner deal is close to a realistic benchmark for Johansen.

Had team "prove it, earn it, show me" moved toward the Skinner range months ago, this deal would be long done. The negotiating process would have followed a normal give and take process had the starting point been reasonable. The silly and unrealistic low ball bridge offer which the Jackets wouldn't move off of for months is why Johansen is in Vancouver right now.

Being stuck on stupid at a $3 million bridge deal for over 3 months is unfathomable when one looks at the realities of the market and of Johansen and of the Jackets cap room. If the season opens with Johansen on the shelf, it's the duo sitting above section 216 who are responsible, not the agent or the player.

 

[DJA]

Why the CBJ management were so stubborn for so long with their $3m/$3.5 bridge deal is a mystery to me.

"were"? did something change when i wasn't paying attention?

 

[CentreKeeper12]

I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the 1st time, but i thought the 2 year 6 million dollar offer was the CBJs 1st offer? most 1st offers are usually low(or high, depending on which side it comes from.) I don't get the extreme hate coming from this due to it being the initial offer, hoping they can get him on the cheap, just like if RyJos camp offered a 2 year 16 million dollar deal at 1st. It just seems to me now the Jackets are done playing games and want to start the season with or without him,

 

[pete goegan]

From the Mains,

This was posted by Kashie14:


In August 2011, Logan Couture signed a 2 year bridge for an AAV of $2.875 million. The cap at the time was $64.3M, so Couture got ~4.5% of the cap. With today's cap of 69 million, that translates to $3.105 M.

In June 2012, Duchene signed a 2 year bridge for an AAV of $3.5 million. The cap at the time was projected to be $70.2 million for the upcoming season, however a new CBA was not yet signed. Duchene got ~5% of the cap, which today translates to $3.45 million.

In September 2013, Derek Stepan signed a 2 year bridge for an AAV of 3.075 million. The cap at the time was $64.3M, so Stepan got ~4.75% of the cap, which today translates to $3.275 million.

The highest % of a cap that a 2 year bridge contract has ever been was 2013-14 when Duchene was still getting $3.5M on the newly lowered cap of $64.3 million. That was ~5.5% of the cap, which today translates to $3.795M. Again, this is the highest figure for a bridge, ever.

My hunch is that CBJ offered 3 million on the bridge with the expectation that Overhardt would bring it up to 3.5, maybe even 3.75 during the negotiations. CBJ cannot offer over 4 million dollars without completely obliterating all established bridge contract precedent. That's why Davidson mentioned that they were effectively restricted by the CBA in what they can offer. If they do offer 4.5 million a year, it's a tacit message that all of those prior contracts need to be trashed and a new precedent set. Now, it's perfectly reasonable to think that a new precedent does need to be set. I do remember after pretty much every bridge contract how everyone (on here at least) felt all those contracts were low. However, compared to his peers and the contracts they have signed, Johansen is not being lowballed by being given offers in the 3 million dollar AAV range.

The reason why a 4.5 million dollar offer feels fair is that it splits the dispute in two. It might feel fair, but it isn't, unless you feel that bridge contracts have been categorically too low. One party was close from the get-go, while the other was asking for Jupiter. Split that in half and you're still somewhere around Mars; a far cry from Earth. Giving a 4.5 AAV bridge would be about a 20% increase over the next highest a 2-year bridge has ever been after adjusting for the current cap. Johansen hasn't proven to be 20% better than the players listed above.

Can't vouch for the accuracy of the math, but it's interesting, nonetheless.

 

[Spartin03]

OK I understand the comparing Johan to them as players and their contracts but there's one thing that keeps bothering me...Am I the only one who doesn't see Skinner or Seguin as centers? Both guys play on the wing the vast majority of the time right? Or am I crazy.

Not sure about Skinner, But Seguin did play wing exclusively while in Boston. Once he was traded to Dallas he moved to center, his natural position.

 

[Sore Loser]

This was posted by Kashie14:


In August 2011, Logan Couture signed a 2 year bridge for an AAV of $2.875 million. The cap at the time was $64.3M, so Couture got ~4.5% of the cap. With today's cap of 69 million, that translates to $3.105 M.

In June 2012, Duchene signed a 2 year bridge for an AAV of $3.5 million. The cap at the time was projected to be $70.2 million for the upcoming season, however a new CBA was not yet signed. Duchene got ~5% of the cap, which today translates to $3.45 million.

In September 2013, Derek Stepan signed a 2 year bridge for an AAV of 3.075 million. The cap at the time was $64.3M, so Stepan got ~4.75% of the cap, which today translates to $3.275 million.

The highest % of a cap that a 2 year bridge contract has ever been was 2013-14 when Duchene was still getting $3.5M on the newly lowered cap of $64.3 million. That was ~5.5% of the cap, which today translates to $3.795M. Again, this is the highest figure for a bridge, ever.

My hunch is that CBJ offered 3 million on the bridge with the expectation that Overhardt would bring it up to 3.5, maybe even 3.75 during the negotiations. CBJ cannot offer over 4 million dollars without completely obliterating all established bridge contract precedent. That's why Davidson mentioned that they were effectively restricted by the CBA in what they can offer. If they do offer 4.5 million a year, it's a tacit message that all of those prior contracts need to be trashed and a new precedent set. Now, it's perfectly reasonable to think that a new precedent does need to be set. I do remember after pretty much every bridge contract how everyone (on here at least) felt all those contracts were low. However, compared to his peers and the contracts they have signed, Johansen is not being lowballed by being given offers in the 3 million dollar AAV range.

The reason why a 4.5 million dollar offer feels fair is that it splits the dispute in two. It might feel fair, but it isn't, unless you feel that bridge contracts have been categorically too low. One party was close from the get-go, while the other was asking for Jupiter. Split that in half and you're still somewhere around Mars; a far cry from Earth. Giving a 4.5 AAV bridge would be about a 20% increase over the next highest a 2-year bridge has ever been after adjusting for the current cap. Johansen hasn't proven to be 20% better than the players listed above.

Can't vouch for the accuracy of the math, but it's interesting, nonetheless.

There go people with their facts again