RW Eeli Tolvanen (2017, 30th, NSH) Part III

[ijuka]

Yeah. Seems like the Preds organization tried to make him into a two-way forward, killing his offensive skills in the meantime.

I think they should let the players whose strength is shot and goal-scoring concentrate on their shot and goal-scoring, seems like a strange direction.

I thought he was really great with Jokerit in 17-18, especially early in the season. Was tricky and confident, very impressive offensively. Feels completely neutered since playing with Preds.

 

[seadawg]

yeah thats the reason.

The Preds aren't entirely to blame. I'm sure Tolvanen could have done more to succeed. And he's still young, so it's possible he can still develop into an NHLer. However, history isn't on his side. There's an inherent issue with the organization that results in them struggling to develop offensively-gifted players. They haven't had a forward score over 70 pts in the organization in well over a decade. The last one was J.P. Dumont back in the 2007/08 season, which doesn't even really count because he wasn't developed by the organization.

 

[CambieKev]

Hey everyone. Here's a look at Tolvanen's performance on November 10, 2020.

#20 for Jokerit.

 

[seadawg]

Hey everyone. Here's a look at Tolvanen's performance on November 10, 2020.

#20 for Jokerit.

The kid can play.

First highlight, he hustles back to defensive zone to cover for the pinching dmen. In another clip, he was playing on the PK, gave his stick to the right-side dman who lost his stick, then (without a stick) laid a nice hit on the point man on the PP. He showed some nice physicality in a few of those highlights, and obviously he still has elite puck-handling and shooting.

Seems like maybe he's working on rounding out his game. Good on him. Nashville needs a player with his elite offensive potential. I hope it works out for both him and the team.

 

[Soundgarden]

Bumping this thread after another strong game.

He's been one of our best forwards out there, although Nashville is horrible this year. Tied for 3rd in rookie goals despite playing 20 games to everyone else's 26-29, and he's had several huge blocked shots and defensive plays at key moments the last couple games.

Lots of bust talk in this thread, time for some mea culpas?

 

[Flgatorguy87]

I'll tell you the single biggest thing that couldn't be further from the truth is the idea that he floats. Kid was out there taking slappers to the legs today. He's still learning, but he is willing and eager to back check and play a 2 way game. Really impressed with his mental game. Now that shot is absolutely everything people said it was. You just can't teach a shot like his.

 

[Timeless Winter]

Been rooting for him since everyone declared him a bust 2 years ago.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

His career has been up, down, up. But is on right track. Most surprising was having no goals when he won gold but he was still a useful player.

 

[Soundgarden]

Goal tonight, 5 PTs in the last three games. Still tied for 3rd in rookie goals this year but had 2 goals called off too.

 

[Svedu]

So disappointed with the 99 born players such as Tolvanen and Vesalainen. Great talents.

But I have to give it to the Predators as well. Seeing Tolvanen play at u18 and u20 level against ( as of today) NHL regulars, he was superior and had a crisp shot and a nose for the net.
He didn't take a single step in his development in that department under his time in NA and that is nothing but a shame.
I understand Forsberg is there and all but they really suffocated his strengths and talents. Trying to mold him to something completely else than he was.
Of course it's not only the organizations fault, but I don't only blame Eeli for this. Some organizations have to figure out how to properly develop their talents and I would consider the Preds organization to be one them.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

So disappointed with the 99 born players such as Tolvanen and Vesalainen. Great talents.

But I have to give it to the Predators as well. Seeing Tolvanen play at u18 and u20 level against ( as of today) NHL regulars, he was superior and had a crisp shot and a nose for the net.
He didn't take a single step in his development in that department under his time in NA and that is nothing but a shame.
I understand Forsberg is there and all but they really suffocated his strengths and talents. Trying to mold him to something completely else than he was.
Of course it's not only the organizations fault, but I don't only blame Eeli for this. Some organizations have to figure out how to properly develop their talents and I would consider the Preds organization to be one them.

I can't help but feel it must be enormously frustrating to Tolvanen as well. It seemed like he put in 4+ years of really sincere effort to fit his game to the style the Predators were asking of him. 2 years in Milwaukee where he focused on his two-way play, 2 more years in Nashville where he steadily added a physical element and became one of our most consistent and hardest-working back-checkers. He showed a lot of commitment and loyalty to the Preds and sure seemed to do his best to evolve into the player they were asking him to be. But all that seemed to do was allow the team to take him out of consideration for offensive roles or opportunity, and then out of the lineup and on waivers ultimately. He must be kicking himself for not just playing his original style and trying to light things up on the scoreboard more, for all the good it did him to follow the Predators' direction instead. Maybe they would have traded him away sooner and maybe that would have ended up being better for him.

It's also a little unfortunate that he landed in Seattle which already has a deep forward group that has been successful so far. So while it's a credit to them that they recognized his potential value, and at least kept him from landing back in the AHL, I hope he gets a chance to play and contribute soon and that he can make the most of it. I'm sure he still has something to show at the NHL level.

 

[Svedu]

Scored in his debut, with a crisp slapper in PP. Exactly what one of his strengths were prior to the draft. I hope he can turn things arounds in Kraken.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

An assist today as well.

 

[mattihp]

An assist today as well.

Only two points in two games though. With those juicy 13 minutes a game he's had. I expected more

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Another PPG today. Up to 3 points in 3 games.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If he keeps up a point a game pace maybe the old fool GM in Nashville will realize his coach is incompetent and get a real coach.

 

[mattihp]

Another PPG today. Up to 3 points in 3 games.

Those juicy minutes do it

 

[mattihp]

That talentless bum went pointless even though he was gifted almost 13 minutes of ice time.

 

[Guess]

WTH is going on here, why did so many teams pass up on this guy?

 

[SomeDude]

WTH is going on here, why did so many teams pass up on this guy?

Because NHL GMs are not always as bright as we give them credit for.

 

[William H Bonney]

It's also important to remember that there's a very low success rate on waiver wire pickups of once hyped prospects. While I would take the chance on most of those guys because there's almost no risk, it's also not like NHL GMs are just passing up sure things, either. Hopefully he keeps it up.

 

[majormajor]

WTH is going on here, why did so many teams pass up on this guy?

Let's try and take a lot of the hindsight out of this.

Tolvanen's career stat profile (from Europe to NHL) is most similar to Emil Bemstrom. If anything Bemstrom has been better at AHL scoring than Tolvanen. Both were top scorers in Europe and both have good analytic results in the NHL. How much do you think NHL clubs should trade for Bemstrom right now? And what should they take into consideration in terms of their current lineup needs? What sort of team should want him?

I think most teams already have reclamation projects of their own, and they think about how many minutes they want to give to those guys. Projects can be a drag on top scorers and they don't necessarily fit in 4th lines either, because most 4th lines don't play enough or don't have the puck much.

Seattle is a bit different because they have such a deep attack. But rather than being too crowded for Tolvanen it means that regardless of where he fits in at forward he'll be on a line that gets decent minutes and has the puck a lot. All 12 forwards have a good chance to score.

 

[MardyBum]

140ish NHL games played is pretty impressive for a prospect.

 

[PAZ]

Let's try and take a lot of the hindsight out of this.

Tolvanen's career stat profile (from Europe to NHL) is most similar to Emil Bemstrom. If anything Bemstrom has been better at AHL scoring than Tolvanen. Both were top scorers in Europe and both have good analytic results in the NHL. How much do you think NHL clubs should trade for Bemstrom right now? And what should they take into consideration in terms of their current lineup needs? What sort of team should want him?

I think most teams already have reclamation projects of their own, and they think about how many minutes they want to give to those guys. Projects can be a drag on top scorers and they don't necessarily fit in 4th lines either, because most 4th lines don't play enough or don't have the puck much.

Seattle is a bit different because they have such a deep attack. But rather than being too crowded for Tolvanen it means that regardless of where he fits in at forward he'll be on a line that gets decent minutes and has the puck a lot. All 12 forwards have a good chance to score.

I'd say Bemstrom is easily worth a waiver claim as well, plus a decent amount of teams have already seen what their reclamation projects can do this year.

The Avs have already tried every project they've had this season and they've failed miserably - Kaut, Ranta, Blidh, Galchenyuk. Even before showing promise in Seattle i'd comfortably say Tolvanen would've be a better option in the Avs' middle 6 than Meyers, Cogliano, and LOC.

 

[Svedu]

So disappointed with the 99 born players such as Tolvanen and Vesalainen. Great talents.

But I have to give it to the Predators as well. Seeing Tolvanen play at u18 and u20 level against ( as of today) NHL regulars, he was superior and had a crisp shot and a nose for the net.
He didn't take a single step in his development in that department under his time in NA and that is nothing but a shame.
I understand Forsberg is there and all but they really suffocated his strengths and talents. Trying to mold him to something completely else than he was.
Of course it's not only the organizations fault, but I don't only blame Eeli for this. Some organizations have to figure out how to properly develop their talents and I would consider the Preds organization to be one them.

Well god damn was I right or what? Lol, short timespan so far and I don't want to jinx him but oh boy is he making the Predators look like fools or what.
Hyvä Eeli!

I've never seen Finnish prospects get handled so badly such as Tolvanen and Heinola, even more so than Puljujärvi back in the days.
Eeli always had an elite shot. He showed it in the men's WC's, KHL, and in youth national teams. That's not a small sample size for a young prospect, actually a lot bigger than most talents at the same age.
I mean compared to Slafkovsky who stood out with his production in the mens WC? Eeli managed the same and also added some good producing in a PRO league.
18 years old and managed to produce 36 points in the KHL in 49 games, PPG in the mens WC and 9 points in 6 games in the olympics.

He's a bad skater and needs to improve that for sure, but that makes the Predators way of handling him even worse. He was always capable to be productive and finish, but not the one who's able to do everything on his own because of weaknesses in his skating and intensity.
God awful how bad by Nashville and there is no way around it. They should have known what they drafted and if they did? He was so mishandled it's not even funny.

This is why I mentioned Heinola as well. The kids potential was-is always to become a producing player on a top pair with his IQ, puck handling and mentality in being able to keep it cool in the offensive zone.
In a bottom pairing there will always be players who fill that role better than Heinola and that's what frustrates me with some organizations. Pick the damn player that suits you or at least give the prospect a chance to show himself and play to his strengths.
Quite baffled about this to be honest, the stupidity is real.