News Article: Rutherford has resigned - Part 2

[Gurglesons]

I think there is an acceptable level of meddling for JR to be doing. Having influence on coaches, GMs and potential advisors may be a little too far in the eyes of JR, though.

It's not like they haven't done this before. Know why Tocchet was hired? Because the ownership made JR hire him as an assistant coach.

To be honest, JR wasn’t hired to be on an island. He came into the role with multiple advisors.

If he wanted complete autonomy good for him on sticking to his guns, but also bye.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Isn’t Rossi weirdly connected to Malkin? If there’s one area where he may be able to be trusted it’s there.

Rossi is writing Malkin's biography.

 

[Ugene Magic]

To be honest, JR wasn’t hired to be on an island. He came into the role with multiple advisors.

If he wanted complete autonomy good for him on sticking to his guns, but also bye.

Right, it was an open minded group effort.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

What if, it had nothing to do with Malkin beyond maybe Sid/Geno taking a stand on JR trying to trade Letang?

Because I can see that....

Well, if he was trying to trade Letang right now, I'd tell him to walk, too.

Maybe you entertain it in the offseason. But not now, especially when you're hurting to this degree on defense.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

FYI the Letang thing from Dunlap looks to be fake. Who would have guessed that?

They don’t really report what happened though... he’s being misleading.

They just explain outlying circumstances and never touch on any root of the problem.

It’s a very vague article they are trying to prop up as explanation for why a stand up guy like JR basically quit without regards to the optics of it all.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

They don’t really report what happened though... he’s being misleading.

They just explain outlying circumstances and never touch on any root of the problem.

It’s a very vague article they are trying to prop up as explanation for why a stand up guy like JR basically quit without regards to the optics of it all.

Yep. Control the narrative.

 

[Gurglesons]

They don’t really report what happened though... he’s being misleading.

They just explain outlying circumstances and never touch on any root of the problem.

It’s a very vague article they are trying to prop up as explanation for why a stand up guy like JR basically quit without regards to the optics of it all.

Gotta give the organization credit if they chose Crosby, Malkin and Letang over Rutherford tbh.

I don't read it as such though.

 

[OswaldBates]

again you might want to look at Morehouse's career before being Burkle's Lapdog ! it was all about controlling the narrative

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

They don’t really report what happened though... he’s being misleading.

They just explain outlying circumstances and never touch on any root of the problem.

It’s a very vague article they are trying to prop up as explanation for why a stand up guy like JR basically quit without regards to the optics of it all.

This article answers no questions at all. The one thing that might raise an eyebrow was JR blew up at Management *cough Morehouse cough* about Karamons being let go.

 

[BigEezyE22]

Well, if he was trying to trade Letang right now, I'd tell him to walk, too.

Maybe you entertain it in the offseason. But not now, especially when you're hurting to this degree on defense.

Unless you're accepting that the volume and severity of injuries would likely open up such a hole that your best option at this point would be to stock up for the future. Maybe start of the season was seen as last good chance and it just blew up. With Letang having what, 1 year after this one, might get a respectable package if you were to retain a little on him.

 

[Beauner]

The idea that Rutherford was going to trade Malkin after Malkin was a monster in 2020 after being called out doesn’t jive with me, because Sid would be livid. The idea that he was going to trade both Malkin and Letang is frankly unbelievable. As in not believable.

I agree with this. And if the thinking now is that they're now pissed off to the point of wanting out, I still don't buy it.

Ownership and likely Sid felt so strongly against the thought that they intervened and pushed JR out. If Mario/Burkle felt they needed to stay, I don't know why either of them would resent the organizaiton

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This article answers no questions at all. The one thing that might raise an eyebrow was JR blew up at Management *cough Morehouse cough* about Karamons being let go.

Ya his firing was... weird.

His daughter played hockey with my daughter and he was a really nice guy.

His wife was really sweet and both my wife and I got the sense they were planning on being in Pgh for quite some time.

No idea what happened there, but it was odd as hell.... much like JR being so angry he up and quits.

Gotta give the organization credit if they chose Crosby, Malkin and Letang over Rutherford tbh.

I don't read it as such though.

I’m not sure what is best right now, going down with the core or not, but Rossi and Yohe are BSing people by pretending like their awesome reporting provides us answers.

It’s pretty much baiting and I don’t care for it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

My complete speculation on why JR quit:

1. I do think the ownership was meddling to a degree that JR didn't like. I don't think that means "I want to trade Letang and they won't let me", but I do think they had their hands in somewhat and JR didn't like it.
2. I think the bigger reason was that being a GM during a pandemic just sucks. He doesn't travel with the team, so he can't meet face to face with players. With how much roster turnover that has happened in the last year, I can easily see how that would drag down JR's morale. He has even admitted that the last 11 months has been really challenging for him.

JR may claim he's not quitting because of the pandemic, but I think it's more likely that it's something small that's finally pushed him over the edge but he was pushed up to that edge by the pandemic.

I lean towards a little bit of this.

I think Penguins ownership is beginning to look down the road a little bit while wanting to maximize the remainder of 87/71's time in the NHL. One portion of that process is to restock the front office, bring in some fresh voices, and also set up some continuity for whenever Rutherford left. I think it's clear there was some tension there, from the Tallon suggestion that didn't take root to the odd dismissal of Karmanos to having just Ventura and Allvin as assistant GMs.

Maybe the Pens wanted Rutherford to have a potential successor in place and he bristled at that because he didn't have a contract past June.

Maybe as the season got underway and Rutherford remained somewhat isolated because of the pandemic, he felt he was being removed a bit from the process. And then the injuries kept hitting and here he is, trying to make some moves to patch the holes, and he's not able to be around to get the pulse of the team. So he quit.

 

[KIRK]

My complete speculation on why JR quit:

1. I do think the ownership was meddling to a degree that JR didn't like. I don't think that means "I want to trade Letang and they won't let me", but I do think they had their hands in somewhat and JR didn't like it.
2. I think the bigger reason was that being a GM during a pandemic just sucks. He doesn't travel with the team, so he can't meet face to face with players. With how much roster turnover that has happened in the last year, I can easily see how that would drag down JR's morale. He has even admitted that the last 11 months has been really challenging for him.

JR may claim he's not quitting because of the pandemic, but I think it's more likely that it's something small that's finally pushed him over the edge but he was pushed up to that edge by the pandemic.

I just listened to Steigy on NHL radio. Not a bad listen when he's not peddling the kool aid line. I think since going off TV he's been in a communications related role with the team, so I took what he said as kind of the 'here's what people who work for the team but weren't in the room are kind of guessing':

1. Said two things in all the interviews yesterday stood out to him:

(a) Morehouse saying he wasn't surprised suggests there were some issues
(b) Allvin emphasizing how he and Sully were on the same page

From that he opined that JR wanted to do something that ownership wouldn't allow. He didn't know what or if it was because they were saying NO per se or because ownership wanted to be involved in the process (he alluded to Morehouse's 'Allvin has Mario' comment, to suggest maybe those above JR were a little more involved lately than he preferred).

NOTE: Not Steigy's comment, but it's entirely plausible IMO that the involvement per se, rather than a hard NO on some move, would be enough to give JR the perception that ownership's faith in him had diminished. Not saying it was correct to feel that way, but it certainly could explain why the trigger came now instead of a month ago as well as the 'hard no on something' theory does.

2. He then noted when you consider JR's age and being isolated in Carolina, maybe the unique COVID situation and his contract being up in June just made him say it's time. I think there was a curiosity on Steigy's part if this would've happened if JR was in Pittsburgh and things were running normally.

3. Asked about JR's legacy, Steigy called him the fixer who completed the puzzle. Someone from the outside who took a fresh look at what had been assembled. He said JR completed the puzzle for Shero in the same way Patrick did for Esposito and EJ and Shero did for Patrick.

4. This led to the who next question. Steigy said they'd look at everything but he hoped for someone with an outside perspective. The only name he floated was Ron Hextall. Specifically noted as part of his pitch that the Pens are soft but also acknowledged that Hextall's undoing in Philly was that he was too patient (Steigy didn't mention it, but I suppose the counter to that is Hextall AGM to Lombardi in building that Kings cup team and perhaps he learned from experience to find a better balance given his time in Philly).

All in all, it reminded me of listening to Pierre McGuire on TSN radio. There's the television character completely worthy of ridicule, but the radio version actually is pretty articulate and insightful.

EDIT: @DesertPenguin . . . I saw your post on Tallon. Didn't realize they didn't hire him, but the attempt certainly feeds into the 'more involvement from above' thing Steigy was talking about.

 

[PensandCaps]

Unless you're accepting that the volume and severity of injuries would likely open up such a hole that your best option at this point would be to stock up for the future. Maybe start of the season was seen as last good chance and it just blew up. With Letang having what, 1 year after this one, might get a respectable package if you were to retain a little on him.

Letang would get a ton back.

If the Pens are looking awful by the TDL, im sure every team in the league would be interested in an elite #1 Righty for 2 postseasons. That would bring back so much, we saw what Blake Coleman got..

I just think Letang should retire a Penguin no matter what. The big 3 deserves that.

 

[KIRK]

Ya his firing was... weird.

His daughter played hockey with my daughter and he was a really nice guy.

His wife was really sweet and both my wife and I got the sense they were planning on being in Pgh for quite some time.

No idea what happened there, but it was odd as hell.... much like JR being so angry he up and quits.



I’m not sure what is best right now, going down with the core or not, but Rossi and Yohe are baiting people by pretending like their awesome reporting for us answers.

It’s pretty much baiting and I don’t care for it.

Except if it were that much of a deal breaker the time to quit then would've been when it happened.

That said, I think that's probably where the souring started. I'd followed that whole Karmanos family drama in Carolina. It's not an exaggeration to say JR thought of him as a son and that he thought of JR as a second father (and a better one than his actual one).

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think he just quit.

BUT... if he didn’t.... the few in Pittsburgh media who could/would/should know what really happened would absolutely carry the water to maintain their relationship and access to the team.

 

[EightyOne]

I think he just quit.

BUT... if he didn’t.... the few in Pittsburgh media who could/would/should know what really happened would absolutely carry the water to maintain their relationship and access to the team.

None of the media shills are gonna tell it like it is

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Except if it were that much of a deal breaker the time to quit then would've been when it happened.

That said, I think that's probably where the souring started. I'd followed that whole Karmanos family drama in Carolina. It's not an exaggeration to say JR thought of him as a son and that he thought of JR as a second father (and a better one than his actual one).

Ya I admit I wanted to ask Jason or his wife about the situation with his dad, but that would have been rude and over stepping my bounds.

My wife and I were actually talking about his situation last night and wondering why Jason got fired and how odd it seemed.

We both had gotten the impression from he and his wife they were planning on being in Pgh for awhile.

Was Jason’s firing the beginning of what set this all off? I dunno...

It was apparently JR’s decision though, or was he forced to do it?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

FYI the Letang thing from Dunlap looks to be fake. Who would have guessed that?

My first reaction was to wonder what internet meme Rossi was referencing by capitalizing the word "NOY".

 

[Gurglesons]

Hextall would be a good GM to replace Rutherford with.

 

[Peat]

If ownership wasn’t meddling after his trade paths over the last few years I’d seriously question our ownership.

He turned Brassard, 1st, 3rd, Sheahan, Wilson, Gustassvon, Reaves, Sundqvist, 1st, 4th, 4th, 2nd into McCann and 2 mil in dead cap.

I mean, I think everyone here thinks the owners should be looking hard at what Rutherford was doing.

However, it's a bit of a shit or get off the pot thing imo. Either you trust the guy to do it or you don't. I guess I don't blame them for meddling, but also don't blame Rutherford for walking if he felt it was too much. And maybe feel if that's where it all was, they shoulda got it into the open and cleared the air pre-season. Although maybe they did.

 

[KIRK]

Ya I admit I wanted to ask Jason or his wife about the situation with his dad, but that would have been rude and over stepping my bounds.

My wife and I were actually talking about his situation last night and wondering why Jason got fired and how odd it seemed.

We both had gotten the impression from he and his wife they were planning on being in Pgh for awhile.

Was Jason’s firing the beginning of what set this all off? I dunno...

It was apparently JR’s decision though, or was he forced to do it?

I always was stunned by it. Now, it's being presented as not his idea. IF that's the case, then one assumes he was fired because the powers that be (I'd assume Morehouse) felt someone had to be accountable for the WBS thing, and who else if not the AGM in charge of WBS.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, I think everyone here thinks the owners should be looking hard at what Rutherford was doing.

However, it's a bit of a shit or get off the pot thing imo. Either you trust the guy to do it or you don't. I guess I don't blame them for meddling, but also don't blame Rutherford for walking if he felt it was too much. And maybe feel if that's where it all was, they shoulda got it into the open and cleared the air pre-season. Although maybe they did.

I believe Rutherford deserves to stick to his guns. But everyone’s boss interferes eventually.

Hopefully the team parlays this into thinking their GM counted them out and they turn around their season.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Well, if he was trying to trade Letang right now, I'd tell him to walk, too.

Maybe you entertain it in the offseason. But not now, especially when you're hurting to this degree on defense.

But if you "have to make a tough move", (He was probably trying before these injuries hit) Letang, I don't think was promised any such thing as being a Penguin for life.

Letang, this year, is physically hurting this team and a coach who can't seem to reel him in, and over extends him too boot.

I'm not under the, "Letang needs to stay at all costs." I understand the plight they are in, now. But they have holes to fill. Someone was probably gonna be traded and JR got the axe on something. They will need to send out a significant player to fill the many holes.

This is where things get tricky.