News Article: Rutherford and Johnston are staying. Both of them.

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xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
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Mike Babcock is a free agent, and we will be sitting on the sidelines.

Because Mike Johnston.

:laugh:

Pretty much. More accurately, because of Lemieux and Burkle. They don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so JR & Shero's 83 cronies are allowed to stick around after one of the worst trades in team history. And Johnston/Tocchet are allowed to stick around despite proving they're the wrong guys for the job.
 

66-30-33

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
63,207
16,209
Victoria, BC
Pretty much. More accurately, because of Lemieux and Burkle. They don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so JR & Shero's 83 cronies are allowed to stick around after one of the worst trades in team history. And Johnston/Tocchet are allowed to stick around despite proving they're the wrong guys for the job.

Atleast when we miss the playoffs next season, they will be like 'WTF happened?".
 

Marns

Registered User
Jul 31, 2006
7,631
4
Toronto, ON
www.thestretchpass.com
Mike Babcock is a free agent, and we will be sitting on the sidelines.

Because Mike Johnston.

:laugh:

tumblr_mntiolhySW1snpc3lo4_r1_500.gif
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
Pittsburgh
I'm far from a negative fan, but I don't even know why people bother with our offseason stuff. I love the team and hate the organization. Honestly. I don't trust any single move they make short of firing everyone and bringing in a group who wants to build a team as opposed to a 1 year tournament.

So I find it useless to even bother. They'll make bad decisions. That's their history.

Chicago is 8 wins from a Cup and what you could call a mini-dynasty. We are over here like "COME SEE SID AND GENO!" :laugh:
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
I'm far from a negative fan, but I don't even know why people bother with our offseason stuff. I love the team and hate the organization. Honestly. I don't trust any single move they make short of firing everyone and bringing in a group who wants to build a team as opposed to a 1 year tournament.

So I find it useless to even bother. They'll make bad decisions. That's their history.

Chicago is 8 wins from a Cup and what you could call a mini-dynasty. We are over here like "COME SEE SID AND GENO!" :laugh:

Chicago would have never got to this point if Dollar Bill Wirtz was still running the show. Our problems start from ownership down, sadly.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
Mike Babcock is a free agent, and we will be sitting on the sidelines.

Because Mike Johnston.

:laugh:

I forget who said this (Yohe?) but someone's explanation for why we would not be in the market for Babcock was that "David Morehouse and Jim Rutherford aren't Babcock kind of guys."
 
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Asuna

Lvl 94 Sub-Leader
Apr 27, 2014
8,217
200
Pittsburgh
I forget who said this (Yohe?) but someone's explanation for why we would not be in the market for Babcock was that "David Morehouse and Him Rutherford aren't Babcock kind of guys."

Yeahhh it's going to be awhile till the Penguins are legit contenders again.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
By that I am guessing they mean it's because Mike wants more say in the player personnel side of things. He wants to be consulted more on that and I get that, he's a coach that knows which players he can coach and be successful with, he has a winning record and reputation, you sort of give a guy like that the benefit of the doubt in that case, he was also very vocal about Tyler Johnson and how the Wings didn't sign him like he wanted.

Yohe is a tool btw, since when is it a Rutherford thing? Morehouse is more like it.
 

Jules Winnfield

Fleurymanbad
Mar 19, 2010
8,919
1,963
I'm far from a negative fan, but I don't even know why people bother with our offseason stuff. I love the team and hate the organization. Honestly. I don't trust any single move they make short of firing everyone and bringing in a group who wants to build a team as opposed to a 1 year tournament.

So I find it useless to even bother. They'll make bad decisions. That's their history.

Chicago is 8 wins from a Cup and what you could call a mini-dynasty. We are over here like "COME SEE SID AND GENO!" :laugh:

LOL someone needs to make a photo or gif of Sid and Geno being at the zoo and we're just all there to observe... :laugh:
 

hiptanaka

Registered User
Jan 12, 2006
1,474
320
Woonsocket
You cant help but admire how Chicago became the powerhouse they are today. A few games before the end of the 03-04 season, we were both tied for last place. Chicago won its last game and we lost ours, making us last and them second-last. When Washington won the lottery, they got Ovechkin, we got Malkin, and Chicago got a guy named Cam Barker.

And yet, look where they are now. Rather admirable, to say the least.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
By that I am guessing they mean it's because Mike wants more say in the player personnel side of things. He wants to be consulted more on that and I get that, he's a coach that knows which players he can coach and be successful with, he has a winning record and reputation, you sort of give a guy like that the benefit of the doubt in that case, he was also very vocal about Tyler Johnson and how the Wings didn't sign him like he wanted.

Yohe is a tool btw, since when is it a Rutherford thing? Morehouse is more like it.

http://sportstalk.triblive.com/download/501PENS15.mp3+share

Think it was here. And yes, iirc, he singles out Morehouse as a reason there is not mutual interest.
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
Pittsburgh
Granted Sid and Geno are my two favorite hockey players, but I honestly do not give a flying **** about watching players. I want to win cups. I'll seriously watch 20 Craig Adams play boring terrible hockey if some magical theory caused it to give us a Cup each year.

As a fan - I care about one thing... Cups. That's why I laughed at people when they hated NJ for trapping. That's the NHL's fault, not NJ's.
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
Pittsburgh
You cant help but admire how Chicago became the powerhouse they are today. A few games before the end of the 03-04 season, we were both tied for last place. Chicago won its last game and we lost ours, making us last and them second-last. When Washington won the lottery, they got Ovechkin, we got Malkin, and Chicago got a guy named Cam Barker.

And yet, look where they are now. Rather admirable, to say the least.

Man you aren't kidding. I remember people bashing Chicago so bad. The forums basically made it out to be like they were Florida. It was bad.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
We had no shot at Babcock once he said he didn't want to be a General Manager. Having more titles was the only thing we could have offered him. We have terrible scouts. Terrible managers. Precious few future assets.

Babcock seems to want strong upper management above him, yet with the open mind to allow him to have a say in personnel matters. Perhaps even a title as V-P, Hockey Ops a la Patrick Roy.

We have basically the opposite...a group of 9 stumbling, bumbling idiots who have no clue, but all the power to be clueless.
 

Sideline

Registered User
May 23, 2004
11,110
2,831
We had no shot at Babcock once he said he didn't want to be a General Manager. Having more titles was the only thing we could have offered him. We have terrible scouts. Terrible managers. Precious few future assets.

Babc ock seems to want strong upper management above him, yet with the open mind to allow him to have a say in personnel matters. Perhaps even a title as V-P, Hockey Ops a la Patrick Roy.

We have basically the opposite...a group of 9 stumbling, bumbling idiots who have no clue, but all the power to be clueless.

We do have Crosby, Malkin, some good organizational depth on defense, and and legit #1 goalie. Those are the hardest things to find as a franchise. I know it's fashionable to act like all is lost, but this team really isn't that far away from winning a Cup.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
We do have Crosby, Malkin, some good organizational depth on defense, and and legit #1 goalie. Those are the hardest things to find as a franchise. I know it's fashionable to act like all is lost, but this team really isn't that far away from winning a Cup.

Yep. Just two top six wingers, a 2nd pairing on defense, and a bottom six. :laugh:
 

Joejosh999

Registered User
Mar 13, 2014
2,738
465
He got in a nice dig on Geno , comparing Kane with his injured shoulder still producing while Geno with his bum ankle (dragging around Kunitz Comeaux et al ) didn't produce.
 

Bennett Brauer

Registered User
May 1, 2011
6,337
0
Pittsburgh, PA
I'm far from a negative fan, but I don't even know why people bother with our offseason stuff. I love the team and hate the organization. Honestly. I don't trust any single move they make short of firing everyone and bringing in a group who wants to build a team as opposed to a 1 year tournament.

So I find it useless to even bother. They'll make bad decisions. That's their history.

Chicago is 8 wins from a Cup and what you could call a mini-dynasty. We are over here like "COME SEE SID AND GENO!" :laugh:

WARNING: LONG POST :laugh:

I don't blame people for being down about the organization, but by how people talk, it's like we are the worst organization in the league. I know some people seriously think that :laugh: but I trust Mario, has he ever let us down? He's the reason this team is even in Pittsburgh right now to begin with, but it seems like some people here would have just preferred that he didn't buy the team and we relocated just so we aren't putting up with this organization.

Someone on the main board said it best, this forums has been very cynical and pessimistic these days, and it's true. No matter what good things are happening, nobody can see any of the positives that we have done. When I look at Rutherford's body of work in one year, I see he did a great job except for one move, ONE MOVE! To other people, that one move should be a cause for sweeping changes.

Speaking of sweeping changes, I'm curious how many "sweeping changes" people want this organization to make? I think firing Shero and Bylsma, trading Neal and letting Orpik, Niskanen, Jokinen, Glass, Vitale, Engelland, etc. walk as UFAs and replacing them with Hornqvist, Spaling, Ehrhoff, Goc (Lapierre), Comeau, Downie, and Perron are pretty big changes to a team, just my opinion. For people who are down about JR, I get his work in Carolina isn't that good, and it deserves criticism but the Penguins interviewed how many GM candidates? I'm willing to bet they didn't want to hand the franchise over to someone who has never been a GM before, and Rutherford is one of the more experienced, respected GMs in the NHL.

As bad as Rutherford was in Carolina recently, he didn't have the luxuries that he does in Pittsburgh and that is a fact, he isn't responsible for building a core, we have that in place and as of right now, 9 straight playoff appearances makes us a "playoff team", so he was brought in to mentor Botterill and whoever, also to help us take the next step, nobody can say whether or not he accomplished it failed it. He said "we didn't reach our goal" so we failed this year but if you're putting that on JR or Johnston, you're out to lunch. You can't blame Rutherford or Johnston for missing Letang, Ehrhoff, Maatta and Dupuis and having many injured players affecting their play like Malkin and Perron. You can blame whoever for Despres for Lovejoy but I highly doubt Despres is the difference between winning or losing to the Rangers, I would bet we'd see the same result.

I trust Rutherford and Johnston, it's only been one season! :laugh: I understand our window to win another Cup is closing (some of you pessimists already consider it closed) but you can't change the front office and coaching staff every year until you reach that goal, new GMs every year bring new philosophies, maybe a potential next GM doesn't like Hornqvist, then we're back to square one with getting rid of players and having a bunch of new things to learn from a new coach and new players AGAIN! I truly believe if this team was healthy or even remotely close to it as most teams have bumps in April, we're a better team and we aren't having this conversation about JR and Johnston.

I'm going to try to mention Jim Rutherford's moves as Penguins GM, and how I think of them.

1. Firing Bylsma/Hiring Johnston - GOOD: I like this move, Johnston has a very high coaching pedigree, the way he coaches is tailor made for Letang, Maatta, and our future defense of puck movers, this is something a lot of us raved about last Summer. He's very intelligent, people always say "he looks so clueless n'at" maybe that's just how he looks? :laugh: Is he supposed to put on a mean mug every game? We started the season great and the first 3 months of the season were very promising, "falling off a cliff" as MJ put it can be seen as a learning experience I think.

2. Trading James Neal for Patric Hornqvist & Nick Spaling - GOOD: His first roster move proved to be a good one, how many of us would have traded Neal for Hornqvist? We wouldn't have, we would have thought Neal had way more value and I bet since a lot of us don't see Nashville much, we'd probably look at Hornqvist as another Tyler Kennedy. Adding Nick Spaling, while he's overpaid, improved our forward depth, a guy who can play any forward position, a solid PKer/checker with speed. Lacks offense but is solid defensively.

3. Drafting Kasperi Kapanen - TBD/GOOD: You can't judge a draft pick until they play in the NHL, but Kapanen seems like a pretty good pick so far and gives us something we desperately lacked over the past few years, a good forward prospect. Someone we can be excited about.

4. Free Agency - ACCEPTABLE: He didn't do anything flashy, but his ideas were pretty smart ones. None of us wanted to see a defenseman signed, but what was the first move? Christian Ehrhoff, on a one year deal at $4M, not over payment at all. With Maatta, Letang and Martin, he realized we could use one more guy who can play top 4 minutes, doing this allowed Pouliot, Dumoulin and Harrington to develop in the AHL with the occasional call up. None of us also expected to see a back up goalie signed but he signed one, which also proved to be a good move because he learned from lacking goalie depth in Carolina. Thomas Greiss proved to be a reliable back up. Signing Blake Comeau to $750,000 and Steve Downie to $1M were steals, both players scored around 15 goals, 30 points. Both players made about the same or less than Tanner Glass and Craig Adams.

5. Signing Marc-Andre Fleury to a 4 year, $5.5M per deal - GOOD: With how Fleury is playing, he could get at least $1M more on the open market. Fleury isn't the best but he's capable, look at what the Bruins, Kings, Rangers, etc. are paying their starting goalies, now I don't blame them, Rask, Quick and Lundqvist are elite. However, we have Fleury at $5.5M, capable goalie and it saves us some cap space from what he could have gotten paid.

6. Trading our 2015 1st round pick for David Perron - ACCEPTABLE/GOOD: When Dupuis went down for the year, we needed a winger, and more importantly, we needed a winger for Crosby or Malkin anyways. Enter David Perron, he has plenty of speed and skill, some of the best hands on the team, coming off of a 28 goal season. It came at a price, our 1st ended up being 16th overall, but if we waited until the deadline, a price for Perron might increase and look who returned a 1st this year. Antoine Vermette, Andrej Sekera, Cody Franson/Mike Santorelli. All are UFAs in July, Perron is signed until next Summer and I would say is better than every player I mentioned above. We addressed a need, and I believe the selection of Kapanen, as well as our youth on D, in goal, allowed us to make this trade without it hurting us.

7. Trading a 2nd, 4th, & Zach Sill for Daniel Winnik - BAD: It was over payment for a guy who was slated to play in the bottom 6 anyways, he came here and became a bust, he basically replaced Rob Klinkhammer and Taylor Pyatt, slight upgrade over both but not enough to justify the picks traded, thankfully it was a 2016 2nd and not a 2015 2nd.

8. Trading Robert Bortuzzo for Ian Cole - GOOD: This looks like a steal, Bortuzzo's ceiling seems like being a 6/7 defenseman. Ian Cole didn't quite pan out in St. Louis but he still has talent and believes he could be better than he was in St. Louis. He came here and didn't look out of place. Puts hard, accurate shots on goal, god skating, passing. Never seemed out of position.

9. Trading Simon Despres for Ben Lovejoy - BAD: This one speaks for itself, we've talked about this for months but this is one of the worst trades made by a GM this year. This is a trade that should have never been thought of, let alone actually made. There will always be questions surrounding this trade, as there should be. However, it's good knowing Rutherford admitted it was a mistake, his intentions were good, nothing wrong with adding a RHD with experience, but we could have acquired Lovejoy for a lot less.

In conclusion, to me, Rutherford's good moves outweigh the bad ones, while his bad moves were very stupid, they aren't bad enough to the point that his job should be in jeopardy. I think with a healthy lineup, this team is better than the way it played down the stretch.

I also believe Rutherford will improve the lineup next season. :handclap: :yo:
 

Sideline

Registered User
May 23, 2004
11,110
2,831
Yep. Just two top six wingers, a 2nd pairing on defense, and a bottom six. :laugh:

Pouliot-Harrington will be a legit second pair within two years. Forget the fact that Dumo-Chorney was on the ice for like 4 even strength goals against all year. Wilson-Sundqvist-Rust could be the 4th line right now and a decent 3rd line within two years.

The team needs 2 wingers and the balls to play the players they already have. Even that assumes that Kapanen and Bennett bust.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
Pouliot-Harrington will be a legit second pair within two years. Forget the fact that Dumo-Chorney was on the ice for like 4 even strength goals against all year. Wilson-Sundqvist-Rust could be the 4th line right now and a decent 3rd line within two years.

The team needs 2 wingers and the balls to play the players they already have. Even that assumes that Kapanen and Bennett bust.

You make the bolded statement sound like it's right around the corner.

We're exactly where we were in 2009. Two wingers away. Play the young guys we already have.

Six years later, it AIN'T happening. The precedence has been set.
 

Hobodrifter

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
1,317
324
Jeannette
WARNING: LONG POST :laugh:

I don't blame people for being down about the organization, but by how people talk, it's like we are the worst organization in the league. I know some people seriously think that :laugh: but I trust Mario, has he ever let us down? He's the reason this team is even in Pittsburgh right now to begin with, but it seems like some people here would have just preferred that he didn't buy the team and we relocated just so we aren't putting up with this organization.

Someone on the main board said it best, this forums has been very cynical and pessimistic these days, and it's true. No matter what good things are happening, nobody can see any of the positives that we have done. When I look at Rutherford's body of work in one year, I see he did a great job except for one move, ONE MOVE! To other people, that one move should be a cause for sweeping changes.

Speaking of sweeping changes, I'm curious how many "sweeping changes" people want this organization to make? I think firing Shero and Bylsma, trading Neal and letting Orpik, Niskanen, Jokinen, Glass, Vitale, Engelland, etc. walk as UFAs and replacing them with Hornqvist, Spaling, Ehrhoff, Goc (Lapierre), Comeau, Downie, and Perron are pretty big changes to a team, just my opinion. For people who are down about JR, I get his work in Carolina isn't that good, and it deserves criticism but the Penguins interviewed how many GM candidates? I'm willing to bet they didn't want to hand the franchise over to someone who has never been a GM before, and Rutherford is one of the more experienced, respected GMs in the NHL.

As bad as Rutherford was in Carolina recently, he didn't have the luxuries that he does in Pittsburgh and that is a fact, he isn't responsible for building a core, we have that in place and as of right now, 9 straight playoff appearances makes us a "playoff team", so he was brought in to mentor Botterill and whoever, also to help us take the next step, nobody can say whether or not he accomplished it failed it. He said "we didn't reach our goal" so we failed this year but if you're putting that on JR or Johnston, you're out to lunch. You can't blame Rutherford or Johnston for missing Letang, Ehrhoff, Maatta and Dupuis and having many injured players affecting their play like Malkin and Perron. You can blame whoever for Despres for Lovejoy but I highly doubt Despres is the difference between winning or losing to the Rangers, I would bet we'd see the same result.

I trust Rutherford and Johnston, it's only been one season! :laugh: I understand our window to win another Cup is closing (some of you pessimists already consider it closed) but you can't change the front office and coaching staff every year until you reach that goal, new GMs every year bring new philosophies, maybe a potential next GM doesn't like Hornqvist, then we're back to square one with getting rid of players and having a bunch of new things to learn from a new coach and new players AGAIN! I truly believe if this team was healthy or even remotely close to it as most teams have bumps in April, we're a better team and we aren't having this conversation about JR and Johnston.

I'm going to try to mention Jim Rutherford's moves as Penguins GM, and how I think of them.

1. Firing Bylsma/Hiring Johnston - GOOD: I like this move, Johnston has a very high coaching pedigree, the way he coaches is tailor made for Letang, Maatta, and our future defense of puck movers, this is something a lot of us raved about last Summer. He's very intelligent, people always say "he looks so clueless n'at" maybe that's just how he looks? :laugh: Is he supposed to put on a mean mug every game? We started the season great and the first 3 months of the season were very promising, "falling off a cliff" as MJ put it can be seen as a learning experience I think.

2. Trading James Neal for Patric Hornqvist & Nick Spaling - GOOD: His first roster move proved to be a good one, how many of us would have traded Neal for Hornqvist? We wouldn't have, we would have thought Neal had way more value and I bet since a lot of us don't see Nashville much, we'd probably look at Hornqvist as another Tyler Kennedy. Adding Nick Spaling, while he's overpaid, improved our forward depth, a guy who can play any forward position, a solid PKer/checker with speed. Lacks offense but is solid defensively.

3. Drafting Kasperi Kapanen - TBD/GOOD: You can't judge a draft pick until they play in the NHL, but Kapanen seems like a pretty good pick so far and gives us something we desperately lacked over the past few years, a good forward prospect. Someone we can be excited about.

4. Free Agency - ACCEPTABLE: He didn't do anything flashy, but his ideas were pretty smart ones. None of us wanted to see a defenseman signed, but what was the first move? Christian Ehrhoff, on a one year deal at $4M, not over payment at all. With Maatta, Letang and Martin, he realized we could use one more guy who can play top 4 minutes, doing this allowed Pouliot, Dumoulin and Harrington to develop in the AHL with the occasional call up. None of us also expected to see a back up goalie signed but he signed one, which also proved to be a good move because he learned from lacking goalie depth in Carolina. Thomas Greiss proved to be a reliable back up. Signing Blake Comeau to $750,000 and Steve Downie to $1M were steals, both players scored around 15 goals, 30 points. Both players made about the same or less than Tanner Glass and Craig Adams.

5. Signing Marc-Andre Fleury to a 4 year, $5.5M per deal - GOOD: With how Fleury is playing, he could get at least $1M more on the open market. Fleury isn't the best but he's capable, look at what the Bruins, Kings, Rangers, etc. are paying their starting goalies, now I don't blame them, Rask, Quick and Lundqvist are elite. However, we have Fleury at $5.5M, capable goalie and it saves us some cap space from what he could have gotten paid.

6. Trading our 2015 1st round pick for David Perron - ACCEPTABLE/GOOD: When Dupuis went down for the year, we needed a winger, and more importantly, we needed a winger for Crosby or Malkin anyways. Enter David Perron, he has plenty of speed and skill, some of the best hands on the team, coming off of a 28 goal season. It came at a price, our 1st ended up being 16th overall, but if we waited until the deadline, a price for Perron might increase and look who returned a 1st this year. Antoine Vermette, Andrej Sekera, Cody Franson/Mike Santorelli. All are UFAs in July, Perron is signed until next Summer and I would say is better than every player I mentioned above. We addressed a need, and I believe the selection of Kapanen, as well as our youth on D, in goal, allowed us to make this trade without it hurting us.

7. Trading a 2nd, 4th, & Zach Sill for Daniel Winnik - BAD: It was over payment for a guy who was slated to play in the bottom 6 anyways, he came here and became a bust, he basically replaced Rob Klinkhammer and Taylor Pyatt, slight upgrade over both but not enough to justify the picks traded, thankfully it was a 2016 2nd and not a 2015 2nd.

8. Trading Robert Bortuzzo for Ian Cole - GOOD: This looks like a steal, Bortuzzo's ceiling seems like being a 6/7 defenseman. Ian Cole didn't quite pan out in St. Louis but he still has talent and believes he could be better than he was in St. Louis. He came here and didn't look out of place. Puts hard, accurate shots on goal, god skating, passing. Never seemed out of position.

9. Trading Simon Despres for Ben Lovejoy - BAD: This one speaks for itself, we've talked about this for months but this is one of the worst trades made by a GM this year. This is a trade that should have never been thought of, let alone actually made. There will always be questions surrounding this trade, as there should be. However, it's good knowing Rutherford admitted it was a mistake, his intentions were good, nothing wrong with adding a RHD with experience, but we could have acquired Lovejoy for a lot less.

In conclusion, to me, Rutherford's good moves outweigh the bad ones, while his bad moves were very stupid, they aren't bad enough to the point that his job should be in jeopardy. I think with a healthy lineup, this team is better than the way it played down the stretch.

I also believe Rutherford will improve the lineup next season. :handclap: :yo:

Thanks for that. These boards have become maddeningly boring and predictable. Every post is about how incompetent everyone is, except for posters on HF boards
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
News flash; this is one of the worst run organizations in the league. Horrendous drafting/development record for the last 5+ years. Horrible free agent signings. Horrible asset management (picks as well as prospects). It's been nearly a decade and we're still *****ing about Sid and Geno's wingers. We're hellbent on being old, slow, and soft.

The only reasons this team isn't a lottery team are Sid, Geno and Fleury.
 
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