Russia may use WNBA star Griner as high profile "hostage" UPD prisoner swap

[Mike Jones]

Sorry, but bringing any drugs into another country isn't a small mistake. Doing as such is either intentional, or exhibits stupidity of the highest order.

There are links to Russian law in this thread. She was treated no differently than average Ivan is in the same circumstance.
But lucky for her she can dribble a basketball well. Her notoriety ensured public outcry would occur and political pressure put on politicians to seek her release.

Unfortunately the end result of her stupidity is that a nasty arms dealer being released back into the world.

People do make mistakes but shouldn't have their lives destroyed because of it. She did make a dumb mistake (two really - going to Russia in the first place was stupid) but it's a small one and it doesn't warrant what happened to her.

Again, why do you hater her? Is it a race or sexual orientation thing? That's the only reason why one human being could possibly tolerate the thought of another human being suffering in a labour camp like that.

 

[Mike Jones]

Glad she’s safe.

Absolutely atrocious deal, though. Administration chose the safety of one person over the populous.

I agree but it was the only one on the table. Hopefully the Ukrainians can get Whelan out when they start putting their demands together in preparation for accepting Russia's surrender.

True enough but trading a terrorist for a basketball player is not acceptable and sets a bad precedent in my opinion

It's awful policy. A lot of countries won't negotiate in situations like this. It only encourages further apprehensions of citizens traveling to other nations.

But this was the hand the WH was dealt. A lot of things came together to force their hand here.

 

[Voight]

I fail to see why people are so insistant that she be punished harshly for such a petty, chicken crap law.

I guess some people enjoy the suffering of others.


Paul Whelan was mentioned prominently in this morning's comments from the White House.

As a thank you to the west for their ongoing support Ukraine could include his release (And the release of many others) as one of the many terms of surrender they present the Russians.

Its more along the lines of if she had been a regular citizen, she would still be there. That and she legitimately broke the law by smuggling drugs. It was entirely avoidable (vs Wheelans trumped up espionage charges).

Not to stray too far into geopolitics but good luck with the bolded.

I know that. They are the farthest thing from being stable or functional right now. That's why they ran someone through a Stalinist show trial and condemned to a work camp for virtually no reason whatsoever.

Work camps are the norm for prisoners in Russian. Try again.

If it was truly a Stalanist show trial, then she would have received a much harsher sentence.

 

[Mike Jones]

IWork camps are the norm for prisoners in Russian. Try again.

If it was truly a Stalanist show trial, then she would have received a much harsher sentence.

Work camps may be the norm but we don't need to accept them or tolerate our citizens suffering though life in them.

It was truly a show trial. It was to send a message to the US. It was all part of the multi-level negotiation to get Putin's scumbag arms dealer back so that he can help them rebuild their missile stocks.

 

[Mike C]

I agree but it was the only one on the table. Hopefully the Ukrainians can get Whelan out when they start putting their demands together in preparation for accepting Russia's surrender.


It's awful policy. A lot of countries won't negotiate in situations like this. It only encourages further apprehensions of citizens traveling to other nations.

But this was the hand the WH was dealt. A lot of things came together to force their hand here.

At that point, I would have said no Whelen, no deal. Keep Griner and call me when you change your mind and I'll let you know what my new price is

I'm willing to let both rot in each other's jail system

 

[Hanji]

People do make mistakes but shouldn't have their lives destroyed because of it. She did make a dumb mistake (two really - going to Russia in the first place was stupid) but it's a small one and it doesn't warrant what happened to her.

Again, why do you hater her? Is it a race or sexual orientation thing? That's the only reason why one human being could possibly tolerate the thought of another human being suffering in a labour camp like that.

That’s where we differ. i don't see it as a small mistake.

but yea I dislike Griner for her ethical hypocrisy.
Did she care about human abuses when she was receiving a nice paycheck from Putin? Did she care about all the prisoners in labor camps when she was dribbling a ball and counting her cash?

It wasnt until she ****ed up and found herself on the receiving end of such treatment did she cry out and care about such things.

 

[Mike C]

Work camps may be the norm but we don't need to accept them or tolerate our citizens suffering though life in them.

It was truly a show trial. It was to send a message to the US. It was all part of the multi-level negotiation to get Putin's scumbag arms dealer back so that he can help them rebuild their missile stocks.

Checkmate

Game Set Match Mr.Putin

 

[Voight]

Work camps may be the norm but we don't need to accept them or tolerate our citizens suffering though life in them.

It was truly a show trial. It was to send a message to the US. It was all part of the multi-level negotiation to get Putin's scumbag arms dealer back so that he can help them rebuild their missile stocks.

The point is she wasn't treated differently than you're average Russia. Labor camps are how most Red's spend their sentence.

For a show trial she got off easy. They could have charged her with any number of national security offenses and really ran up her sentence. They didn't though.

Trying to leave a foreign country with drugs amongst your luggage is a dumb move no matter where you are. Especially into a hostile one. Sorry but if you play stupid games, you'll win stupid prizes.

 

[Mike C]

The point is she wasn't treated differently than you're average Russia. Labor camps are how most Red's spend their sentence.

For a show trial she got off easy. They could have charged her with any number of national security offenses and really ran up her sentence. They didn't though.

Trying to leave a foreign country with drugs amongst your luggage is a dumb move no matter where you are. Especially into a hostile one. Sorry but if you play stupid games, you'll win stupid prizes.

She was also in the camp that was the best of the lot. The one they let inspectors and Amnesty International go through. .

 

[TheLegend]

No just the stupidity of it


Russia is barely functioning and is far from a stable country

All the more reason to get her (and any other American incarcerated there for some dumb reason.

That includes Whelan. But that one is going to take more work.

That’s where we differ. i don't see it as a small mistake.

but yea I dislike Griner for her ethical hypocrisy.
Did she care about human abuses when she was receiving a nice paycheck from Putin? Did she care about all the prisoners in labor camps when she was dribbling a ball and counting her cash?

It wasnt until she ****ed up and found herself on the receiving end of such treatment did she cry out and care about such things.

Maybe if she had been getting paid better in the US then there would be no reason to go overseas.

 

[Primary Assist]

Yikes. Glad she's on a plane back to freedom and safety, but this is a hefty, hefty price. By all accounts the Merchant of Death is a bad, bad man and we just let him walk free. Don't really think it's fair deal for basically everyone not named Brittney Griner

 

[Mike Jones]

At that point, I would have said no Whelen, no deal. Keep Griner and call me when you change your mind and I'll let you know what my new price is

I'm willing to let both rot in each other's jail system

I don't hate them that much.

That’s where we differ. i don't see it as a small mistake.

but yea I dislike Griner for her ethical hypocrisy.
Did she care about human abuses when she was receiving a nice paycheck from Putin? Did she care about all the prisoners in labor camps when she was dribbling a ball and counting her cash?

It wasnt until she ****ed up and found herself on the receiving end of such treatment did she cry out and care about such things.

She probably needed the money because WNBA players are paid squat and far below what their male counterparts are paid. People probably don't play in Russia because they want to.

 

[DoyleG]

Broglio for Brock deal today.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

We got an American out of an awful situation and in exchange we gave up someone that had already served a full decade behind bars.

I get what he did was infinitely worse than any drug possesion charge, but by and large the result of his incarceration was the incapacitation of his criminal enterprises and his network of contacts. Anyone worrying that he's going to be able to slip back into illicit arms deals when going anywhere outside of Russia would put him back in the jurisdiction of further prosecution if he went back to his ill deeds, and not to mention he'd assuredly have to start from scratch as his network is horrifically out of date, if even functional, at this point.

He'll almost likely just be a means for Putin to pat himself on the back among his ultranationalist backers versus being any kind of useful asset in arms acquirement.

 

[DoyleG]

We got an American out of an awful situation and in exchange we gave up someone that had already served a full decade behind bars.

I get what he did was infinitely worse than any drug possesion charge, but by and large the result of his incarceration was the incapacitation of his criminal enterprises and his network of contacts. Anyone worrying that he's going to be able to slip back into illicit arms deals when going anywhere outside of Russia would put him back in the jurisdiction of further prosecution if he went back to his ill deeds, and not to mention he'd assuredly have to start from scratch as his network is horrifically out of date, if even functional, at this point.

He'll almost likely just be a means for Putin to pat himself on the back among his ultranationalist backers versus being any kind of useful asset in arms acquirement.

He'll be back in the business. Someone with his background is just to valuable to let sit in his dacha and be used as a symbol.

Putin and Prigozhin knew that and played hardball as a result. They knew Biden's weakness and he played right into it.

Along with that, they know the rest of the world isn't going to play nice with prosecutors, not when the Russian seem to be more reliable.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

He'll be back in the business. Someone with his background is just to valuable to let sit in his dacha and be used as a symbol.

Putin and Prigozhin knew that and played hardball as a result. They knew Biden's weakness and he played right into it.

Along with that, they know the rest of the world isn't going to play nice with prosecutors, not when the Russian seem to be more reliable.

What value does he have beyond propaganda? The Russians have their own arms industry and a pipeline to China for additional weaponry. Bout hasn't been involved in the arms trade since Dubya was in office. His contacts outside Russia are likely all long gone or know that dealing with him would get a huge deal of scrutiny, as basically every western agency knows to keep an eye out for him if he ever left Russia and got back in the game.

I seriously don't see a scenario where he becomes anything more than a prop or a figurehead.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

All the more reason to get her (and any other American incarcerated there for some dumb reason.

That includes Whelan. But that one is going to take more work.


Maybe if she had been getting paid better in the US then there would be no reason to go overseas.

Maybe if she could sell any tickets she'd make more money.

Maybe if her league had more than 0 years turning a profit

Maybe if her league's profit wasn't -$10m a year

Maybe if her league wasn't supported by the NBA because they can't sell any tickets

She gets paid a fair amount for the revenue of her league

 

[Mike C]

All the more reason to get her (and any other American incarcerated there for some dumb reason.

That includes Whelan. But that one is going to take more work.


Maybe if she had been getting paid better in the US then there would be no reason to go overseas.

Made 212,525/ year plus 1 mil endorsement from Nike

Other top wnba players make 250-400k in non oppressive overseas countries

She was GREEDY and went for 1M deal where it was OK for her to take Putin's money but not OK for her to follow Putin's rules

My wife and I live just fine on around 75k and we have a 14 year old. No endorsement deal no overseas side gig

 

[Mike C]

Maybe if she could sell any tickets she'd make more money.

Maybe if her league had more than 0 years turning a profit

Maybe if her league's profit wasn't -$10m a year

Maybe if her league wasn't supported by the NBA because they can't sell any tickets

She gets paid a fair amount for the revenue of her league

You left out the part about maybe if people gave a shit about her sport

What value does he have beyond propaganda? The Russians have their own arms industry and a pipeline to China for additional weaponry. Bout hasn't been involved in the arms trade since Dubya was in office. His contacts outside Russia are likely all long gone or know that dealing with him would get a huge deal of scrutiny, as basically every western agency knows to keep an eye out for him if he ever left Russia and got back in the game.

I seriously don't see a scenario where he becomes anything more than a prop or a figurehead.

All made men go back on the job when they get out of jail. This guy will find something to do in the life he knows

 

[DoyleG]

All made men go back on the job when they get out of jail. This guy will find something to do in the life he knows

He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. This is evident by him ignoring the role of Prigozhin.

Bout, with his connections (he still has them and can easily make new one's) would be a perfect fit for Vagner.

 

[TimeZone]

People do make mistakes but shouldn't have their lives destroyed because of it. She did make a dumb mistake (two really - going to Russia in the first place was stupid) but it's a small one and it doesn't warrant what happened to her.

Again, why do you hater her? Is it a race or sexual orientation thing? That's the only reason why one human being could possibly tolerate the thought of another human being suffering in a labour camp like that.

Words cannot describe how sick and tired I am of people bringing race and sexual orientation into topics that have nothing to do with either.

The poster you replied to didn't state anything inaccurate, she broke the law, was treated the same as any other individual would be in her situation.

Good for her to be home, horrible for everyone else that Putin absolutely torched the US by getting an extremely dangerous individual in return for somebody who dribbles a basketball.

 

[Voight]

We got an American out of an awful situation and in exchange we gave up someone that had already served a full decade behind bars.

I get what he did was infinitely worse than any drug possesion charge, but by and large the result of his incarceration was the incapacitation of his criminal enterprises and his network of contacts. Anyone worrying that he's going to be able to slip back into illicit arms deals when going anywhere outside of Russia would put him back in the jurisdiction of further prosecution if he went back to his ill deeds, and not to mention he'd assuredly have to start from scratch as his network is horrifically out of date, if even functional, at this point.

He'll almost likely just be a means for Putin to pat himself on the back among his ultranationalist backers versus being any kind of useful asset in arms acquirement.

Not exactly. The only reason the US was able to arrest him in the first place was because he was willing to sell weapons to an organization that wanted Americans dead and the DEA caught him in an undercover sting. Before that, they really couldn't charge him because his deals took place outside their (& other western nations) jurisdiction. & even if he stays in Russia, he'll be free to broker arms deals. Its not the 90s anymore; he doesn't need to physically be where the shipments are going.

What value does he have beyond propaganda? The Russians have their own arms industry and a pipeline to China for additional weaponry. Bout hasn't been involved in the arms trade since Dubya was in office. His contacts outside Russia are likely all long gone or know that dealing with him would get a huge deal of scrutiny, as basically every western agency knows to keep an eye out for him if he ever left Russia and got back in the game.

I seriously don't see a scenario where he becomes anything more than a prop or a figurehead.

Bout can likely acquire weapons that aren't available to Russia.

I don't hate them that much.


She probably needed the money because WNBA players are paid squat and far below what their male counterparts are paid. People probably don't play in Russia because they want to.

Well yea.... WNBA isn't as lucrative as the NBA. Shocker.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Bout can likely acquire weapons that aren't available to Russia.

From where? They already have open agreements with China, India, and Iran, so not like he'd do anything there. And there are already loads of sanctions on Russia by the EU/NATO, making Bout persona non-grata and Russia a no sales zone for Western arms industries, and those guys are in Western jurisdictions and don't want to lose extremely lucrative arms deals with NATO.

Bout's a propagandistic has-been for Putin.

 

[Mike Jones]

Words cannot describe how sick and tired I am of people bringing race and sexual orientation into topics that have nothing to do with either.

The poster you replied to didn't state anything inaccurate, she broke the law, was treated the same as any other individual would be in her situation.

Good for her to be home, horrible for everyone else that Putin absolutely torched the US by getting an extremely dangerous individual in return for somebody who dribbles a basketball.

I stand by my post. I think race and sexual orientation are a huge part of this story and needs to be confronted and discussed.

 

[Fatass]

I stand by my post. I think race and sexual orientation are a huge part of this story and needs to be confronted and discussed.

Why? She’s home and safe with her family. That’s what’s important.