GDT: Russia - Canada

[snipes]

Russian hockey is dead

Not even close.

Probably the best young group of goaltenders along with the Americans.

Anyone who watched the U-18s would come away thinking the game is in good hands going forward. Particularly Michkov what a tremendous generational talent he is. Possibly the best European prospect ever, and at least the best European prospect since Ovi/Malkin. Several other very talented players were on that roster too.

 

[lawrence]

Russia's fault for not bringing in Podkolzin. He is the type of player that can counter Canadians. it's too bad. Poor Russia.

 

[Get North]

Most of Canada didn't even watch this game and woke up to a pleasant surprise.

 

[SaltNPeca]

This team went 0-3 to start the tournament with losses to Latvia and Germany lol
Now in the SFs with two more games guaranteed.

I'm sure some of the guys met at this tournament for the first time. Young "mixed bag" Canadian team facing off against established national teams with systems and core groups that go back 5-10 years.

On top of that, like every year. The North Americans just don't value the tournament the same, primarily the opening round. If you'd know what happens on the inside or could make a good guess this 0-3 start isn't too surprising.

Canada has 20 NHL-players. Finland has 2...

Canada also has a US College player and a WHL player, just lol.

Ower Power, 18 years old - 3 assists
Braden Schneider, 19 years old - 1assist

Yes yes, "20 NHLers", let's look at some of them:

• DIPIETRO : 2 NHL Games >7 GAA
• BERNARD-DOCKER: 5 NHL games, 0 Shots, 0 NHL points
  
• BEAUDIN: 20 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 6 points
  
• FOUDY: 26 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 5 NHL assists
• BUNTING: 26 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 14 points
  
• ANDERSON-DOLAN: 43 NHL Games over 3 seasons, 12 NHL points
  
• DANFORTH: 0 NHL Games, property of CBJ
  
• PIRRI: NHL suitcase

 

[Gold Standard]

I'm sure some of the guys met at this tournament for the first time. Young "mixed bag" Canadian team facing off against established national teams with systems and core groups that go back 5-10 years.

On top of that, like every year. The North Americans just don't value the tournament the same, primarily the opening round. If you'd know what happens on the inside or could make a good guess this 0-3 start isn't too surprising.


Canada also has a US College player and a WHL player, just lol.

Ower Power, 18 years old - 3 assists
Braden Schneider, 19 years old - 1assist

Yes yes, "20 NHLers", let's look at some of them:

• DIPIETRO : 2 NHL Games >7 GAA
• BERNARD-DOCKER: 5 NHL games, 0 Shots, 0 NHL points
  
• BEAUDIN: 20 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 6 points
  
• FOUDY: 26 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 5 NHL assists
• BUNTING: 26 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 14 points
  
• ANDERSON-DOLAN: 43 NHL Games over 3 seasons, 12 NHL points
  
• DANFORTH: 0 NHL Games, property of CBJ
  
• PIRRI: NHL suitcase

The perception/evaluation of Team Canada by our opponents is always influenced before playing (not wanting to diminish the value of a Win, anticipating a Win) therefore you'll always here, Canada is Canada. all players are NHL players etc, etc. The same people who say that will say the complete opposite after they lose...How the hell did we lose to that Team Canada? weak Team Canada etc. etc. which is what all the Russian hockey analysts are going through today.

 

[Yakushev72]

The perception/evaluation of Team Canada by our opponents is always influenced before playing (not wanting to diminish the value of a Win, anticipating a Win) therefore you'll always here, Canada is Canada. all players are NHL players etc, etc. The same people who say that will say the complete opposite after they lose...How the hell did we lose to that Team Canada? weak Team Canada etc. etc. which is what all the Russian hockey analysts are going through today.

Canada and Russia were actually pretty evenly matched in the QF game, despite all the talk about a big upset. For Russian players, because of salary differences and other considerations, if a player is good enough, they are gone to the NHL. With the exception of Tarasenko and maybe, to a degree, Orlov, the Russian roster consisted of marginal NHL players or KHL players who have not shown enough to attract NHL interest. I think the result, and this tournament, shows 2 things:

1) The difference between marginal NHL'ers and AHL/Euro League talent is not as great as the NHL would like to believe. A case in point is the Canadian team, who showed excellent speed, and had little problem suppressing marginal Russian talent with emotion and patriotic fervor that the Russian team sorely lacked!

2) Individual NHL stars, especially when they trickle in one at a time, make much less of a difference in the outcome than the NHL PR machine would like to believe. This has been particularly true for Russia ever since Russians started going to the NHL. An exception might be Malkin, who had some dazzling performances early in the last decade, but there were several years when Ovechkin came to the Worlds and looked like just another guy skating around, producing little or nothing! A lot of Russian fans were waiting for Tarasenko to dominate the ice and stickhandle through entire teams, and were actually upset at him when he failed to do so. To me, it points up the tendency to greatly overestimate the difference between so-called superstars and regular hockey players.

Maybe if the Canadian team had been loaded with NHL stars, maybe they wouldn't have been so hungry and played with so much emotion. Now, there is no doubt that their coaches spotted the fact that Russia was a vulnerable team throughout the tournament.

 

[DuklaNation]

If Stecher actually had those offensive tools this entire time, these coaches need to be fired.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Canada and Russia were actually pretty evenly matched in the QF game, despite all the talk about a big upset. For Russian players, because of salary differences and other considerations, if a player is good enough, they are gone to the NHL. With the exception of Tarasenko and maybe, to a degree, Orlov, the Russian roster consisted of marginal NHL players or KHL players who have not shown enough to attract NHL interest. I think the result, and this tournament, shows 2 things:

1) The difference between marginal NHL'ers and AHL/Euro League talent is not as great as the NHL would like to believe. A case in point is the Canadian team, who showed excellent speed, and had little problem suppressing marginal Russian talent with emotion and patriotic fervor that the Russian team sorely lacked!

2) Individual NHL stars, especially when they trickle in one at a time, make much less of a difference in the outcome than the NHL PR machine would like to believe. This has been particularly true for Russia ever since Russians started going to the NHL. An exception might be Malkin, who had some dazzling performances early in the last decade, but there were several years when Ovechkin came to the Worlds and looked like just another guy skating around, producing little or nothing! A lot of Russian fans were waiting for Tarasenko to dominate the ice and stickhandle through entire teams, and were actually upset at him when he failed to do so. To me, it points up the tendency to greatly overestimate the difference between so-called superstars and regular hockey players.

Maybe if the Canadian team had been loaded with NHL stars, maybe they wouldn't have been so hungry and played with so much emotion. Now, there is no doubt that their coaches spotted the fact that Russia was a vulnerable team throughout the tournament.

Agree all around. It's now an echo chamber in here!

The result of that game tells me very little about "the state of Russian or Canadian hockey"
To think of this game anything like the 2010 Olympic Quarterfinal game would be lunacy. Even then as a Canadian fan I was chitting my pants and really glad "we" could pull that one out, and if it was played again Canada could lose. The next 2 games were 1 goal games, and yeah Canada won the gold, but it was no cake walk. Even with that crazy roster the other teams were super competitive and could have won.

I also think injecting stars is a gamble, also in NHL. Look at this whole narrative about "only 1 >$10M player made it into the second round". It is truly a team sport, and as great as OV, Matthews, McDavid, Draisaitl, Nylander, etc. are they can always be beat by well coached, hard working team which is hot or gets some bounces.

 

[beowulf]

Was happy and surprised to see Canada win. Bloody hell no real big names and the youngest roster at the tourney with an average age of 24!

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Henrique and Brown were so impressive together, Brown especially. Brown's sense for the game is terrific. There was a point where he dummied a Russian forechecker into chasing him behind the net and then just darted up the ice leaving the checker behind.

Tarasenko is a very disappointing player on the larger ice surface. Doesn't suit his game at all.

Rogovoy was everywhere on the ice with his speed, solid defensive specialist.

Owen Power is beauty! He has this knack of creating extra time and he's so cool he always makes the right play. Young Doughty level patience he has. He's weak checking players behind the goal line or along the boards but he's going to be a dandy of a player going forward.

 

[Czechboy]

I'm sure some of the guys met at this tournament for the first time. Young "mixed bag" Canadian team facing off against established national teams with systems and core groups that go back 5-10 years.

On top of that, like every year. The North Americans just don't value the tournament the same, primarily the opening round. If you'd know what happens on the inside or could make a good guess this 0-3 start isn't too surprising.


Canada also has a US College player and a WHL player, just lol.

Ower Power, 18 years old - 3 assists
Braden Schneider, 19 years old - 1assist

Yes yes, "20 NHLers", let's look at some of them:

• DIPIETRO : 2 NHL Games >7 GAA
• BERNARD-DOCKER: 5 NHL games, 0 Shots, 0 NHL points
  
• BEAUDIN: 20 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 6 points
  
• FOUDY: 26 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 5 NHL assists
• BUNTING: 26 NHL Games over 2 seasons, 14 points
  
• ANDERSON-DOLAN: 43 NHL Games over 3 seasons, 12 NHL points
  
• DANFORTH: 0 NHL Games, property of CBJ
  
• PIRRI: NHL suitcase

Power is about to be 1OV
Schneider is a 1st rounder


Now please do the rest of the roster...

When you're done show me a roster with more NHL goals on it at this tourney? Or a roster with a higher overall salary that this one? Or a roster with more first rounders on it?

 

[Ossific]

I missed the game, but was there any reason Perfetti only played 1 minute? Did he get hurt?

 

[jj cale]

Power is about to be 1OV
Schneider is a 1st rounder


Now please do the rest of the roster...

When you're done show me a roster with more NHL goals on it at this tourney? Or a roster with a higher overall salary that this one? Or a roster with more first rounders on it?

Both of you are correct. Canada has the most nhl'ers and most 1st rounders, they are also facing teams with more prep time, established systems, lot's of experience on big ice and none of these nhl players are stars by any means and a few of the players are just kids.

I'd say it balances out pretty well and I think the results have shown that.

 

[NyQuil]

When you're done show me a roster with more NHL goals on it at this tourney? Or a roster with a higher overall salary that this one? Or a roster with more first rounders on it?

Keep in mind that we are comparing the roster with what typically shows up for Team Canada.

I'm glad all the Europeans are impressed and intimidated by our roster because we certainly aren't.

What can be nice for Team Canada in terms of organizational culture is that any particular iteration of our team focuses on a system that is aligned with team strengths are and players play their roles without complaint.

But the easy answer is that Mangiapane showing up created an actual 1st line that has done the vast majority of the heavy offensive lifting for the squad.

 

[kyle44]

Canada and Russia were actually pretty evenly matched in the QF game, despite all the talk about a big upset. For Russian players, because of salary differences and other considerations, if a player is good enough, they are gone to the NHL. With the exception of Tarasenko and maybe, to a degree, Orlov, the Russian roster consisted of marginal NHL players or KHL players who have not shown enough to attract NHL interest. I think the result, and this tournament, shows 2 things:

1) The difference between marginal NHL'ers and AHL/Euro League talent is not as great as the NHL would like to believe. A case in point is the Canadian team, who showed excellent speed, and had little problem suppressing marginal Russian talent with emotion and patriotic fervor that the Russian team sorely lacked!

2) Individual NHL stars, especially when they trickle in one at a time, make much less of a difference in the outcome than the NHL PR machine would like to believe. This has been particularly true for Russia ever since Russians started going to the NHL. An exception might be Malkin, who had some dazzling performances early in the last decade, but there were several years when Ovechkin came to the Worlds and looked like just another guy skating around, producing little or nothing! A lot of Russian fans were waiting for Tarasenko to dominate the ice and stickhandle through entire teams, and were actually upset at him when he failed to do so. To me, it points up the tendency to greatly overestimate the difference between so-called superstars and regular hockey players.

Maybe if the Canadian team had been loaded with NHL stars, maybe they wouldn't have been so hungry and played with so much emotion. Now, there is no doubt that their coaches spotted the fact that Russia was a vulnerable team throughout the tournament.

Considering Russia had 6-7 players on this roster that are in contention for their Olympic team next year (e.g., Tarasenko, Provorov, Orlov, Gavrikov, Zub, Zadorov) and a Vezina winner in goal (I'm aware of his recent struggles), I don't think its unreasonable to consider this a fairly large upset.

 

[NyQuil]

I missed the game, but was there any reason Perfetti only played 1 minute? Did he get hurt?

I'm pretty sure he's been the extra forward on the team for awhile.

He might be used in certain PP situations.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Power is about to be 1OV
Schneider is a 1st rounder


Now please do the rest of the roster...

When you're done show me a roster with more NHL goals on it at this tourney? Or a roster with a higher overall salary that this one? Or a roster with more first rounders on it?

I could care less bruv, why don't you do it? Why should NHL goals or USD Salaries matter? Milan Lucic makes $6 M, Yakupov is a 1OA 1st rounder
Maybe USA, Sweden, or ROC have a higher salary. Feel free to crunch the #'s. My post still stands, so some of you can pump up all of Team Canada's NHLers lol

When you're done, go outside it's nice out.

 

[Czechboy]

comparing the roster with what typically shows up for Team Canada.

I know and I find that crazy. No one has a roster close to what they normally send. Only country with a full roster was Great Britain and Kazkhistan to my knowledge? Unless they have NHLer's that didn't show and I missed it. Norway was missing their biggest star. Denmark was missing their key scorers. Italy had a full team and had to send a different one due to Covid.

In any tournament... one should compare their team to the other teams in the same tournament.

 

[Czechboy]

I could care less bruv, why don't you do it? Why should NHL goals or USD Salaries matter? Milan Lucic makes $6 M, Yakupov is a 1OA 1st rounder
Maybe USA, Sweden, or ROC have a higher salary. Feel free to crunch the #'s. My post still stands, so some of you can pump up all of Team Canada's NHLers lol

When you're done, go outside it's nice out.

Yak isn't on the Russian roster.

Lucic would've been a star at this tournament.

You already they don't have higher salaries.

Handpicking the 8 worst Canadians is an interesting strategy. I just wish you didn't ignore the 20 guys on the roster.

You're right, it is gorgeous out... off I go!

 

[jj cale]

Yak isn't on the Russian roster.

Lucic would've been a star at this tournament.

You already they don't have higher salaries.

Handpicking the 8 worst Canadians is an interesting strategy. I just wish you didn't ignore the 20 guys on the roster.

You're right, it is gorgeous out... off I go!

Lucic wouldn't be a star at a midget tournament these days.

 

[Czechboy]

Lucic wouldn't be a star at a midget tournament these days.

As you know I'm an Oil fan... Calgary won that trade.lol He's been great. Not worth his salary but he helps them. Neal doesn't help us much anymore.haha

 

[NyQuil]

I know and I find that crazy. No one has a roster close to what they normally send. Only country with a full roster was Great Britain and Kazkhistan to my knowledge? Unless they have NHLer's that didn't show and I missed it. Norway was missing their biggest star. Denmark was missing their key scorers. Italy had a full team and had to send a different one due to Covid.

In any tournament... one should compare their team to the other teams in the same tournament.

I don't understand what your point is.

That this Canada is a powerhouse? I think the results early on spoke for themselves. This is a team that eked into the medal round with a bit of luck.

I went out of my way in this very thread to indicate that I don't think the results matter in this tournament given the extremely unusual circumstances - that applies to Canada just as much as it does to every other team in the tournament aside from Great Britain and Kazakhstan.

Do I think Russia was a favorite over Canada, given results in the tournament to date and a general comparison of the rosters?

I certainly do, the Russia media certainly did. These were the top seed and the bottom seed in the tournament.

Canada is rarely an underdog in any scenario of any kind so it was kind of refreshing to see them work hard to keep the game close and score at opportune moments. It required a different kind of game plan as when you just try to bowl over the opponent with superior skill.

I think a lot of Europeans just count NHLers as some kind of standard for excellence when you have to be a little bit more nuanced and look at the actual skillsets of the players involved and the capacity in which they are used on their NHL teams.

A guy like Stephane Da Costa was a lot more highly skilled than a lot of Ottawa Senators that ended up with spots over him, and yet Da Costa can dominate (and has) for France at the WCs.

It came down to how few spots were available on the NHL roster that catered to his particular skill set. It was either 2C or nothing for him in the NHL.

 

[jj cale]

As you know I'm an Oil fan... Calgary won that trade.lol He's been great. Not worth his salary but he helps them. Neal doesn't help us much anymore.haha

He's a big plug to me but I suppose they did win that trade yeah.

 

[Yakushev72]

Considering Russia had 6-7 players on this roster that are in contention for their Olympic team next year (e.g., Tarasenko, Provorov, Orlov, Gavrikov, Zub, Zadorov) and a Vezina winner in goal (I'm aware of his recent struggles), I don't think its unreasonable to consider this a fairly large upset.

I would agree about Tarasenko and Provorov, but Tarasenko only appeared in two games, and was no more dominant against Belarus than Canada (game-winning Shootout goal aside). The others are just bit players who don't stand out in a tournament setting where a single loss gets you eliminated. They were not obviously superior to the Canadians they were competing against. Canada won without great talent, but with a ton of emotion. Whatever talent edge Russia might have had was not sufficient to overcome a half-ass effort!

 

[cska78]

I am devastated about the result. Congrats to team Canada for showing up in this tournament finally
Provorov is such an overrated player it's beyond me why he is logging so many minutes in Phily.
Nesterov is and has been utter rubbish on ice, why we brough him over - is beyond me
We got what we deserved, with this stupid red machine, gun ho crap from Rotenberg and a chicken hockey from Bragin.
I have a feeling there is nowhere else to fall, but knowing that nothing fundamental will change - waiting for new falls.