Rumours & Trade & Free Agent Discussion 2019-2020

[tbcwpg]

1 more year @ $4m

32 yr old RD

to me when i see where Martinez fits in the league, i see a fit in Winnipeg, i wonder if the Jets are at all looking at adding a veteran D for a playoff push

Playoff push? Have you watched this team in the past couple of months? They're pushing closer to the Kings than the playoffs right now.

Also if Buff comes back you'll have to take some salary on to make it work for the following year. Not to mention I'm sure you'd be asking for far too much

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There are provisions in the CBA for injured players, I don't see how that is relevant. He is allowed second opinions if he follows procedure, he elected to skip camp and go fishing in derbies before he felt like he wanted to get his ankle looked at without team consent.

I have a hard time seeing how his camp has any leg to stand on here. He is injured, he reports and gets it checked out and suggests a treatment and rehab plan. If he and his camp disagrees then they go get a second opinion from one of a number of league and PA accredited source.

All an arbitrator should need is a copy of the CBA and testimony from all parties leading up to this to make a ruling imo. This is 100% a procedure/contract issue and not at all a medical one imo. He either is held to the CBA or he's allowed to circumvent it.

I think the first issue is simply to rule on whether the injury is a hockey injury or not. Then it will be established that he didn't follow procedure and the question will be the remedy for that failure to follow procedure. Will that failure void his contract? That would be a horrible result that would give players a path to getting out of contracts they don't like. Will it be to give the Jets the option to void the contract? Much better but then what about Buff's salary for this year? What is the path to get Buff reinstated? What about the team's obligation wrt hockey injuries? Do the parties negotiate a compromise and Buff/NHLPA withdraw the grievance? I don't see an obvious end to this.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm sure we dont have all of the info but it seems like from what I read the team misdiagnosed his injury and he signed off on it without knowing he had a broken foot. He came back to camp thinking he was fine, found out he wasnt. Went to another doctor and got it diagnosed correctly and then got surgery on it. My guess is the arbiter is waiting to see if he can actually play or not. Because if he cant and he does retire he forfeits that salary anyways. If he can play then the Jets misdiagnosed his injury and owe him his salary because of that. It really comes down to our doctors were incompetent and Buff believed their diagnoses. Now all parties are likely waiting to see if he can actually return to duty or if he is indeed unable to play.

If the arbiter accepts that it was a hockey injury - but Buff still can't play he gets paid on LTIR. He doesn't retire. Playing or not playing is irrelevant. Buff is either entitled to be paid or he is not.

 

[Adam da bomb]

so you're saying that Winnipeg just needs Byfuglien to come back

We may be a wildcard at best that’s not a position where we can give up a 1st or a great prospect. Also if we want to go that route we would probably try and get Harmonic. Slightly younger, he also is more likely to resign with Jets as he is from Winnipeg. Yep we say that about all former Winnipegers just don’t think either is a great option with us playing the way we are. Better to tank and get a top 10-15 pick.

 

[Weezeric]

I think the first issue is simply to rule on whether the injury is a hockey injury or not. Then it will be established that he didn't follow procedure and the question will be the remedy for that failure to follow procedure. Will that failure void his contract? That would be a horrible result that would give players a path to getting out of contracts they don't like. Will it be to give the Jets the option to void the contract? Much better but then what about Buff's salary for this year? What is the path to get Buff reinstated? What about the team's obligation wrt hockey injuries? Do the parties negotiate a compromise and Buff/NHLPA withdraw the grievance? I don't see an obvious end to this.

There’s no way the contract is going to be terminated. The only decision will be whether the Jets were wrong to suspend him instead of putting him on LTIR. I don’t see any way of that happening. There’s a very clear and specific procedure for resolving differences of opinion regarding injuries in the CBA. Buff didn’t follow it. He just didn’t show up. There may be some more information this isn’t public that changes things but I can’t imagine anything that would result in the contract being terminated.

 

[untouchable21]

question for you guys... would you think that A. Martinez (RD) would fit well with the Jets? Given that Byfuglien comes back...

Morrisey - Pionk
Kulikov - Martinez
Sbisa - Byfuglien

that looks potent

thoughts?

He may be a good fit, but this team is not going anywhere by adding him for whatever he’s likely to cost. And Buff coming back is still a huge question mark.

They’re better off reevaluating the defense in the off season than pay inflated trade deadline prices. This team is no contender so I see no reason to add.

 

[Channelcat]

He may be a good fit, but this team is not going anywhere by adding him for whatever he’s likely to cost. And Buff coming back is still a huge question mark.

They’re better off reevaluating the defense in the off season than pay inflated trade deadline prices. This team is no contender so I see no reason to add.

The more you look at it, the tougher it looks. Good 2nd pairing d men cost a 1st and a prospect. Way too steep in my opinion.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

How is 3 points out of the playoffs at the all star break with all the injuries we have had the perfect time? I think it makes total sense to let him either win or lose his job the last half the season.

Are you happy with Maurice's performance as the Jets coach?

Do you believe the Jets have any business being near a playoff spot this year?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Buff and the NHLPA are going to argue negligence on the side of the team doctors at least it seems like that. But I think they are waiting to see if he actually does recover as that may have even further implications against our team doctors misdiagnosing an injury that may have led to the end of his career. At least that's what I'm getting out of it.

Whether they argue that or not I don't see his recovery affecting the arb process one way or another. This is not like a civil lawsuit over responsibility for an injury. In that case the settlement depends on the degree of loss. In hockey, injuries are part of the business. If injured and unable to play, players still get full pay - until their contracts expire. Players don't get to sue their teams or the league after they retire because they have trouble climbing stairs on their banged up knees.

In this case, if it is accepted as a hockey injury (which I expect it will be) then Buff is entitled to full pay till the end of next season. The team and league appear to be arguing that there was no hockey injury. It was all signed off at the end of last season. If they win then Buff is not entitled to be paid.

Assuming it is accepted as a hockey injury Buff did not follow procedure in dealing with it. He did not report to the team. At that point the arbitrator has to decide what to do about it. What consequences are there for Buff's failure to report? If the suspension is upheld, how does Buff go about getting reinstated?

Buff's side, the NHLPA will argue that Buff was not satisfied with the treatment he got and that he was entitled to get treated elsewhere. The league will agree to that but argue that he should have reported first and kept the team involved in the treatment even though it was not the team medical staff treating him.

Both sides have legitimate points. Buff and the Jets would possibly have been able to come to a settlement but the league and the NHLPA both want to win a point, setting some kind of precedent.

I don't see anywhere in there that his recovery to playing level, or lack of it has any effect on the decision. The arbitrator will determine how Buff gets the suspension lifted. The effective date of lifting the suspension puts him back on the payroll, whether he can play at that time or not.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There’s no way the contract is going to be terminated. The only decision will be whether the Jets were wrong to suspend him instead of putting him on LTIR. I don’t see any way of that happening. There’s a very clear and specific procedure for resolving differences of opinion regarding injuries in the CBA. Buff didn’t follow it. He just didn’t show up. There may be some more information this isn’t public that changes things but I can’t imagine anything that would result in the contract being terminated.

Exactly.

What the arbitrator has to decide is how the suspension gets ended and at what date. What criteria will he use to set that? Maybe he tells Buff that the suspension will be lifted the day he reports to the Jets. Buff reports the next day and is back on the payroll. Does his contract get extended to 2 seasons from the date of reinstatement? Or does it still expire July 1, 2021? Maybe Buff is told that this year is a write-off and he still owes Jets 2 years.

I don't know how he will make his decisions on these questions. Right now, I don't know if anything will surprise me. Not knowing the criteria the arbitrator will base his decision on makes guessing at the outcome futile.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

A starter? Really? He has a 3.71 GAA and an 0.883 save percentage.

What is Helle's sv% for his last 10 games? He has been getting the kind of play in front of him that Brossoit got from the beginning of the season.

Croissant had 1 or 2 bad games, but most of his troubles have not been of his own making. He has been all alone out there.

 

[Daximus]

Are you happy with Maurice's performance as the Jets coach?

Do you believe the Jets have any business being near a playoff spot this year?

No and no.

 

[Daximus]

Whether they argue that or not I don't see his recovery affecting the arb process one way or another. This is not like a civil lawsuit over responsibility for an injury. In that case the settlement depends on the degree of loss. In hockey, injuries are part of the business. If injured and unable to play, players still get full pay - until their contracts expire. Players don't get to sue their teams or the league after they retire because they have trouble climbing stairs on their banged up knees.

In this case, if it is accepted as a hockey injury (which I expect it will be) then Buff is entitled to full pay till the end of next season. The team and league appear to be arguing that there was no hockey injury. It was all signed off at the end of last season. If they win then Buff is not entitled to be paid.

Assuming it is accepted as a hockey injury Buff did not follow procedure in dealing with it. He did not report to the team. At that point the arbitrator has to decide what to do about it. What consequences are there for Buff's failure to report? If the suspension is upheld, how does Buff go about getting reinstated?

Buff's side, the NHLPA will argue that Buff was not satisfied with the treatment he got and that he was entitled to get treated elsewhere. The league will agree to that but argue that he should have reported first and kept the team involved in the treatment even though it was not the team medical staff treating him.

Both sides have legitimate points. Buff and the Jets would possibly have been able to come to a settlement but the league and the NHLPA both want to win a point, setting some kind of precedent.

I don't see anywhere in there that his recovery to playing level, or lack of it has any effect on the decision. The arbitrator will determine how Buff gets the suspension lifted. The effective date of lifting the suspension puts him back on the payroll, whether he can play at that time or not.

It would likely already be dealt with if they weren't waiting for him to recover at this point. If the arbiter has all the information he needs it would be done. They are obviously waiting for him to recover as they haven't even set a date yet.

 

[Adam da bomb]

What is Helle's sv% for his last 10 games? He has been getting the kind of play in front of him that Brossoit got from the beginning of the season.

Croissant had 1 or 2 bad games, but most of his troubles have not been of his own making. He has been all alone out there.

You really have been giving Helly heck haven't you. Good don't let him get away with it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It would likely already be dealt with if they weren't waiting for him to recover at this point. If the arbiter has all the information he needs it would be done. They are obviously waiting for him to recover as they haven't even set a date yet.

It isn't just a matter of presenting an arbitrator with a few documents. It gets fought by lawyers, just like a trial. Lawyers always = delay. Recovery just doesn't play a part in it anywhere that I can see.

If recovery was important the arbitrator would issue a ruling that says such and such will happen when and if Buff recovers. He wouldn't wait for the recovery to happen. Still irrelevant. What if recovery takes until next January? Are we going to be in limbo for another season?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You really have been giving Helly heck haven't you. Good don't let him get away with it.

No, I'm not giving Helle heck. I'm giving everyone on the team who isn't Helle or Brossoit heck. Though Helle has let in some softies lately. Thing is, I don't know that we would notice them much if we were only giving up 3 goals a game or less. We might win the odd one. Winning fixes everything.

 

[Jimmyjets]

The more you look at it, the tougher it looks. Good 2nd pairing d men cost a 1st and a prospect. Way too steep in my opinion.

I'm also of the opinion we shouldn't be adding anything that costs more than a 4th round pick as we aren't one player away from being a cup contender. We need to be playing the young guys so next year we can go back to contender status.

With the long end of Buff's recovery falling at the end of February we should already be getting a top 4 Dman back at that point anyhow. Where will we sit in the standing by then is the question?

My preference is just to roll with:

Jmo Poolman
Niku Buff
Kulikov Pionk
Beaulieu

for the last month of the year and playoffs if we make it. Maybe add in Samberg for Beaulieu if we get him signed before the season ends to see what he's got. In the offseason see what's out there in the free agent market once we know how close Niku, Samberg, Heinola are to being top 4 guys.

Or you could go:

JMo Buff
Niku Pionk
Kuli Poolman

Getting Buff back, getting healthy and letting Niku have a legitimate shot are all we really need imo to maybe be a dark horse team. We have $19M of salary either injured or suspended right now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm also of the opinion we shouldn't be adding anything that costs more than a 4th round pick as we aren't one player away from being a cup contender. We need to be playing the young guys so next year we can go back to contender status.

With the long end of Buff's recovery falling at the end of February we should already be getting a top 4 Dman back at that point anyhow. Where will we sit in the standing by then is the question?

My preference is just to roll with:

Jmo Poolman
Niku Buff
Kulikov Pionk
Beaulieu

for the last month of the year and playoffs if we make it. Maybe add in Samberg for Beaulieu if we get him signed before the season ends to see what he's got. In the offseason see what's out there in the free agent market once we know how close Niku, Samberg, Heinola are to being top 4 guys.

Or you could go:

JMo Buff
Niku Pionk
Kuli Poolman

Getting Buff back, getting healthy and letting Niku have a legitimate shot are all we really need imo to maybe be a dark horse team. We have $19M of salary either injured or suspended right now.

What makes you think end of Feb is the long end of getting Buff back? I'd call that extremely optimistic.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I'm also of the opinion we shouldn't be adding anything that costs more than a 4th round pick as we aren't one player away from being a cup contender. We need to be playing the young guys so next year we can go back to contender status.

With the long end of Buff's recovery falling at the end of February we should already be getting a top 4 Dman back at that point anyhow. Where will we sit in the standing by then is the question?

My preference is just to roll with:

Jmo Poolman
Niku Buff
Kulikov Pionk
Beaulieu

for the last month of the year and playoffs if we make it. Maybe add in Samberg for Beaulieu if we get him signed before the season ends to see what he's got. In the offseason see what's out there in the free agent market once we know how close Niku, Samberg, Heinola are to being top 4 guys.

Or you could go:

JMo Buff
Niku Pionk
Kuli Poolman

Getting Buff back, getting healthy and letting Niku have a legitimate shot are all we really need imo to maybe be a dark horse team. We have $19M of salary either injured or suspended right now.

What have you seen in Niku to think he is a top 4 player? Not saying he's not, just asking what you are basing it on.

 

[Heldig]

I would hope Chevy is looking to add to the D group. A few names that have surfaced in trade discussions - Manson, Dumba, and Mayfield - would be great adds to the team. Obviously not all valued the same (and no idea if any are really on the trade market) but I think some combo of Roslovic / Vesalainen / Poolman* / Perrault / Lowry* could land us a top 4 dman with some term remaining. Start rebuilding the D for next season. Hopefully get Samberg on board for next year. Possibly Heinola too. If Buff returns to hockey he will be an asset whether on the Jets or traded somewhere.

* Poolman and Lowry are injured so that is an issue in the short term. I include Lowry because I was thinking he and Mayfield are good comparables and NYI are looking for a 3 C.

 

[10Ducky10]

Are you happy with Maurice's performance as the Jets coach?

Do you believe the Jets have any business being near a playoff spot this year?

Are you happy with the players he's been dealt to play?

 

[Jimmyjets]

What makes you think end of Feb is the long end of getting Buff back? I'd call that extremely optimistic.

Just the time frame from the articles from when he had the surgery. For example this tweet:

"Upwards of 4 months" makes me think that's the longer end of the recovery timeframe. 4 months from mid/late October is mid/late February.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Are you happy with the players he's been dealt to play?

Over his tenure as Jets coach, he has been giving adequate players to pass judgement, yes.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

I would hope Chevy is looking to add to the D group. A few names that have surfaced in trade discussions - Manson, Dumba, and Mayfield - would be great adds to the team. Obviously not all valued the same (and no idea if any are really on the trade market) but I think some combo of Roslovic / Vesalainen / Poolman* / Perrault / Lowry* could land us a top 4 dman with some term remaining. Start rebuilding the D for next season. Hopefully get Samberg on board for next year. Possibly Heinola too. If Buff returns to hockey he will be an asset whether on the Jets or traded somewhere.

* Poolman and Lowry are injured so that is an issue in the short term. I include Lowry because I was thinking he and Mayfield are good comparables and NYI are looking for a 3 C.

Wild have no reason to accept this for Dumba. Wild 3rd like & 4th line is already full & one of best in league.

Wild can easily get a 1st & young c prospect for Dumba & guerin has been told not to deal in Division

 

[Jimmyjets]

What have you seen in Niku to think he is a top 4 player? Not saying he's not, just asking what you are basing it on.

I see a player that when handed heavy minutes and/or a decent partner (typically due to an in game injury at this point) has been able to respond. I think he does an excellent job moving the puck and I generally like his reads once he's retrieved the puck in our own end. I also like his offensive instincts in the O-zone in terms of finding open teammates and getting shots through to the net that can be deflected.

I think he keeps a very tight gap while the other team is breaking out and is able to break up a lot of plays on the offensive side of the red line as a result.

I don't know for sure if he can handle a top 4 role long term or not, which is why I think it's critical that the Jets determine that this season so we know what our true needs are going forward. Kuli, Sbisa, Bittsy, Beaulieu etc. aren't part of the future. Niku, Samberg, Heinola, JMo, Pionk. To me, this is the future of the Jets D for the next half decade. Maybe with Chisholm mixed in if he continues his trajectory.

I've like his game once the jitters have disappeared here.