Speculation: Rumours & Trade & Free Agent Discussion 2019-2020

[bumblebeeman]

Looks like Trouba and Lemieux had a nice little hand in the Rangers loss last night. Hoping to see a lot more of that to come.

So, in essence our dealings with NYR has led to:

• Rangers: Trouba and Lemieux and -5MM cap space
• Jets: Partial season of Hayes, Heinola, Pionk and +5MM cap space

Did I miss something? Really doesn't look like the Rangers came out on top there. They got an overrated, overpaid D with an attitude problem and a ragey no skill forward who takes stupid penalties.

We got a young top 4 D who has shown to be much better than advertised and still has room to develop and improve, a likely elite top pairing defenseman, and cap space.

I guess Chevy really ****ed that deal up. Considering the poisioning of the situation by Overhardt Chevy is a friggin genius.

Ya the Heinola pick was the Jets to begin with, so they didn't get him from the Rangers he was their own pick they gave up for Hayes if you are looking at the two trades that way.

 

[KingBogo]

Wheels goes in off season for a center or D. I could see Carolina involved

Wheeler isn't going anywhere. His is a top 10-15 winger, captain of the team and has a full NMC for 2 seasons after this.

 

[Whileee]

Ya the Heinola pick was the Jets to begin with, so they didn't get him from the Rangers he was their own pick they gave up for Hayes if you are looking at the two trades that way.

The Hayes trade was the one that is bad in retrospect. Not too many critics here at the time, but still a negative. The Trouba trade was forced. So far, it looks like Pionk might have been undervalued, and the Jets might have really nailed that #20 pick. Also, the cap considerations are really key. Jets couldn't keep Trouba without giving up a top young forward.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

I really hope the Jets don't waste assists on players not needed/rentals just because of making a trade for trades sake.

If we go on a losing streak, it's happened before, and that with over paid Vets. Jets don't need to start losing 1st rounders or players again.

 

[Jet]

Ya the Heinola pick was the Jets to begin with, so they didn't get him from the Rangers he was their own pick they gave up for Hayes if you are looking at the two trades that way.

Sure, but if you break down the transactions together, my point still stands. The Jets gave up Lemieux and Trouba in whole, and negative 5MM cap

The Rangers gave up Pionk, Heinola (Jets pick) and added 5MM in cap.

Jets won the deal IMO (though it's ridiculously early to really say)

 

[Jet]

The Hayes trade was the one that is bad in retrospect. Not too many critics here at the time, but still a negative. The Trouba trade was forced. So far, it looks like Pionk might have been undervalued, and the Jets might have really nailed that #20 pick. Also, the cap considerations are really key. Jets couldn't keep Trouba without giving up a top young forward.

Agreed. If we would have given up Lemieux + Heinola for a couple months of Hayes that would have stung. Shrewd move by Chevy to get that pick back.

So, if we are seperating the deals, we lost big in the Hayes deal but hit a homer with the Trouba one

 

[Teemusalami204]

Sure, but if you break down the transactions together, my point still stands. The Jets gave up Lemieux and Trouba in whole, and negative 5MM cap

The Rangers gave up Pionk, Heinola (Jets pick) and added 5MM in cap.

Jets won the deal IMO (though it's ridiculously early to really say)

The forwards in NHL have translated into smaller skilled guys. Big power forwards like lucic who were spread through the league are getting fizzled out for the most part. With expectations of coarse.

Next is the defense position. Smaller skilled defenseman will be the norm soon. Players like trouba and chariot will be obsolete and to slow to stop the new wave of NHL forwards already sweeping across the league.

Getting rid of these types of players is a win in itself. I did not agree one bit with losing almost all of our defenseman in 1 off season at all. If we lost them staggered with time to replace them adequately it would be huge win.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I would not trade Ehlers for a defenceman like Risto. Next summer's class of UFA defencemen will be deep. Kulikov will be off the books and if Buff doesn't come back, that's plenty of cap space to pick up a good D-man, hopefully for a reasonable price (reasonable for a UFA signing, that is).

Tbh, if and only IF Buff comes back this year, I'd expect him to retire the following offseason so that's another 7M freed up

 

[Jet]

The forwards in NHL have translated into smaller skilled guys. Big power forwards like lucic who were spread through the league are getting fizzled out for the most part. With expectations of coarse.

Next is the defense position. Smaller skilled defenseman will be the norm soon. Players like trouba and chariot will be obsolete and to slow to stop the new wave of NHL forwards already sweeping across the league.

Getting rid of these types of players is a win in itself. I did not agree one bit with losing almost all of our defenseman in 1 off season at all. If we lost them staggered with time to replace them adequately it would be huge win.

You can't be serious. Yes, there is an influx of smaller forwards but the NHL is jam packed with big, beefy, skilled guys up front who can skate. Look at our own team: Scheifele, Lowry, Wheeler, Laine and soon Vesalainen. We have Gus who will play too.

Genetics and hormones are making bigger and bigger humans. Big, strong, elite forwards will continue to be a big part of the NHL. It's great to see an injection (and return) of smaller forwards and defense, but you still need to incorporate size into your lineup to win (especially in the playoffs). That is not going to change any time soon.

 

[Teemusalami204]

You can't be serious. Yes, there is an influx of smaller forwards but the NHL is jam packed with big, beefy, skilled guys up front who can skate. Look at our own team: Scheifele, Lowry, Wheeler, Laine and soon Vesalainen. We have Gus who will play too.

Genetics and hormones are making bigger and bigger humans. Big, strong, elite forwards will continue to be a big part of the NHL. It's great to see an injection (and return) of smaller forwards and defense, but you still need to incorporate size into your lineup to win (especially in the playoffs). That is not going to change any time soon.

That's why I said exceptions. Trouba isnt an exception. He is a big slow lugging defenseman without the hockey IQ to be an exception. I also used chariot as a reference.

 

[Jet]

That's why I said exceptions. Trouba isnt an exception. He is a big slow lugging defenseman without the hockey IQ to be an exception. I also used chariot as a reference.

I wouldn't go that far with Trouba. I'd love to have him on the Jets at 6MM max. Chiarot is a good, bottom pair guy. He really improved his skating with the puck and first pass, but he's also overpaid in a cap system, especially when you have elite talent like the Jets.

As much as people are bemoaning (inaccurately IMO) our current defense, we are doing pretty well with it and making the necessary savings that we need to retain our truly elite talent. Paying what we do in our goaltending position further exacerbates our cap challenges.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I wouldn't go that far with Trouba. I'd love to have him on the Jets at 6MM max. Chiarot is a good, bottom pair guy. He really improved his skating with the puck and first pass, but he's also overpaid in a cap system, especially when you have elite talent like the Jets.

As much as people are bemoaning (inaccurately IMO) our current defense, we are doing pretty well with it and making the necessary savings that we need to retain our truly elite talent. Paying what we do in our goaltending position further exacerbates our cap challenges.

Very good points. Maybe I should loosen my view from being obsolete. To playing these types of players elite money being obsolete.

There will always be room for big slow hard hitting players. I just feel they womt be part of most cores eventually with exceptions

 

[Jet]

Very good points. Maybe I should loosen my view from being obsolete. To playing these types of players elite money being obsolete.

There will always be room for big slow hard hitting players. I just feel they womt be part of most cores eventually with expectations

I think we actually agree in principle. I think big slow players are doomed in the NHL. Guys like Peluso, and even Bitteto just can't hang with the big boys.

I think where we disagree is the assessment of Trouba and Chiarot

 

[surixon]

I wouldn't go that far with Trouba. I'd love to have him on the Jets at 6MM max. Chiarot is a good, bottom pair guy. He really improved his skating with the puck and first pass, but he's also overpaid in a cap system, especially when you have elite talent like the Jets.

As much as people are bemoaning (inaccurately IMO) our current defense, we are doing pretty well with it and making the necessary savings that we need to retain our truly elite talent. Paying what we do in our goaltending position further exacerbates our cap challenges.

Jets really aren't spending much more then the league average on goaltending. We are 12th in the league in CAP hit for our goalies so I don't think that position is having a negative impact on our cap.

Its really Buff and his 7 plus million in limbo that is hurting our cap.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Agreed. If we would have given up Lemieux + Heinola for a couple months of Hayes that would have stung. Shrewd move by Chevy to get that pick back.

So, if we are seperating the deals, we lost big in the Hayes deal but hit a homer with the Trouba one

My personal preference is to merge the two and Heinola cancels out of both sides of the equation and you're left with Lemieux plus 1 yr of Trouba for Pionk and 2 mths of Hayes. Hoping Pionk can be a creative 2nd pairing guy for couple of cup runs.

 

[Jet]

Jets really aren't spending much more then the league average on goaltending. We are 12th in the league in CAP hit for our goalies so I don't think that position is having a negative impact on our cap.

Its really Buff and his 7 plus million in limbo that is hurting our cap.

Totally fair, I guess I meant to say we aren't saving there, we aren't saving with our forwards - so we kind of HAVE to save on our D

Perreault and Kulikov overpays are hurting us right now. Thank God we got Connor, Ehlers, Wheeler and Scheifele signed to reasonable, long term deals.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I think we actually agree in principle. I think big slow players are doomed in the NHL. Guys like Peluso, and even Bitteto just can't hang with the big boys.

I think where we disagree is the assessment of Trouba and Chiarot

I think I agree with you on their assessments too. I would take trouba at 6 and chariot at a lesser price as well.

 

[Jet]

My personal preference is to merge the two and Heinola cancels out of both sides of the equation and you're left with Lemieux plus 1 yr of Trouba for Pionk and 2 mths of Hayes. Hoping Pionk can be a creative 2nd pairing guy for couple of cup runs.

Don't forget the cap $$

 

[surixon]

Pionk is looking like our version of Justin Schultz a good offensive minded number 4 dmen. hat we need is a top pairing RD to play with Morrissey as I feel we have the pieces to cover the rest of our d core long term.

 

[Jet]

Pionk is looking like our version of Justin Schultz a good offensive minded number 4 dmen. hat we need is a top pairing RD to play with Morrissey as I feel we have the pieces to cover the rest of our d core long term.

I want to see how Beaulieu does there.

If that guy could eliminate the brain farts he could be very good IMHO

 

[Gil Fisher]

Pionk is looking like our version of Justin Schultz a good offensive minded number 4 dmen. hat we need is a top pairing RD to play with Morrissey as I feel we have the pieces to cover the rest of our d core long term.

And was Justin Schultz the highly touted college free agent that signed with a poor Oikers team and bombed there in his rookie season?

 

[surixon]

Totally fair, I guess I meant to say we aren't saving there, we aren't saving with our forwards - so we kind of HAVE to save on our D

Perreault and Kulikov overpays are hurting us right now. Thank God we got Connor, Ehlers, Wheeler and Scheifele signed to reasonable, long term deals.

Good point, yes we aren't saving anything in either of those positions.

I think Perrault while maybe a bit overpaid is needed until Ves shows he can take that role so I don't have much of an issue there. Kulikov is off the books in a year so isn't much of an issue this year.

We need Buff to make his decision as a defense like this is pretty solid:

Morrissey - Pionk
Belieau - Buff
Kulikov Poolman

 

[surixon]

And was Justin Schultz the highly touted college free agent that signed with a poor Oikers team and bombed there in his rookie season?

Yup. He didn't flourish until he got to Pitts

 

[surixon]

I want to see how Beaulieu does there.

If that guy could eliminate the brain farts he could be very good IMHO

I liked his play a lot last year but that is asking him to play his offside. Not sure if he is capable of that or not.

 

[Jet]

Good point, yes we aren't saving anything in either of those positions.

I think Perrault while maybe a bit overpaid is needed until Ves shows he can take that role so I don't have much of an issue there. Kulikov is off the books in a year so isn't much of an issue this year.

We need Buff to make his decision as a defense like this is pretty solid:

Morrissey - Pionk
Belieau - Buff
Kulikov Poolman

And Niku platooning with Poolman