Speculation: Rumours & Trade & Free Agent Discussion 2019-2020

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Jet

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I liked his play a lot last year but that is asking him to play his offside. Not sure if he is capable of that or not.
It's funny cause I HATE playing off side, but most of the guys I play with don't really care too much. I think you have to adjust your game a bit (the way you pull pucks off the wall, improve backhand passing) but a lot of it is building muscle memory (more reps pivoting the opposite way, etc).
 

Board Bard

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Jun 7, 2014
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Sure, but if you break down the transactions together, my point still stands. The Jets gave up Lemieux and Trouba in whole, and negative 5MM cap

The Rangers gave up Pionk, Heinola (Jets pick) and added 5MM in cap.

Jets won the deal IMO (though it's ridiculously early to really say)

The Jets gave up a 1st round pick for Hayes. The Rangers gave up a 1st round pick for Trouba. They cancel, and that removes Heinola from the equation. So the total from the Jets is Trouba and Lemieux, and the total from the Rangers is Pionk, a bit of Hayes, and the cap space. You can't ignore the fact the Jets gave the pick but include it for the Rangers. That's nothing more than blatant one-sided homerism.
 
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Jet

Free Capo!
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The Jets gave up a 1st round pick for Hayes. The Rangers gave up a 1st round pick for Trouba. They cancel, and that removes Heinola from the equation. So the total from the Jets is Trouba and Lemieux, and the total from the Rangers is Pionk, a bit of Hayes, and the cap space. You can't ignore the fact the Jets gave the pick but include it for the Rangers. That's nothing more than blatant one-sided homerism.
Thanks for your aggressive critique :laugh:
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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The Hayes trade was the one that is bad in retrospect. Not too many critics here at the time, but still a negative. The Trouba trade was forced. So far, it looks like Pionk might have been undervalued, and the Jets might have really nailed that #20 pick. Also, the cap considerations are really key. Jets couldn't keep Trouba without giving up a top young forward.

Agree except for the last statement. Knowing that Trouba was not signing here, Chevy made no moves to free up the necessary space. If Trouba had signed with Jets a year earlier instead of going to arb, Chevy would have made sure there was room.

It is possible that he might have chosen to do so by giving up a top young forward for a good return but that would have been only 1 possible way to go.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Sure, but if you break down the transactions together, my point still stands. The Jets gave up Lemieux and Trouba in whole, and negative 5MM cap

The Rangers gave up Pionk, Heinola (Jets pick) and added 5MM in cap.

Jets won the deal IMO (though it's ridiculously early to really say)

You seem to have missed the point. Heinola appears on both ends of the deal, so is cancelled out.
Jets gave up; Trouba, #20, Lemieux, -5 mil
NYR gave up; Pionk, #20, +5 mil
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Very good points. Maybe I should loosen my view from being obsolete. To playing these types of players elite money being obsolete.

There will always be room for big slow hard hitting players. I just feel they womt be part of most cores eventually with exceptions

Trouba is not slow. You are massively mischaracterizing him. He may never have become the elite 1st pair Dman we hoped for, but he is still very good. He has all the physical skills to be elite. It is the HIQ that may be letting him down.
 

KingBogo

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Nov 29, 2011
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You seem to have missed the point. Heinola appears on both ends of the deal, so is cancelled out.
Jets gave up; Trouba, #20, Lemieux, -5 mil
NYR gave up; Pionk, #20, +5 mil
Agreed on the technicality, but then for completion sake 2 months of Hayes should be added as well as clarifying it is only 1 year of Trouba.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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Agreed on the technicality, but then for completion sake 2 months of Hayes should be added as well as clarifying it is only 1 year of Trouba.

Yes, but the point is that #20 went both ways.

I like to think about what we would have got from NYR if we had never traded away #20. Howden? Andersson? Their '20 1st? And we still get Heinola with our own #20.
 
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Jet

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You seem to have missed the point. Heinola appears on both ends of the deal, so is cancelled out.
Jets gave up; Trouba, #20, Lemieux, -5 mil
NYR gave up; Pionk, #20, +5 mil
I didn't miss the point, but I did make a horribad decision to put the deals together.

I even admitted in a post that Chevy made an awful deal in the Hayes transaction - and a great one in the Trouba deal.
 

Teemusalami204

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Jul 30, 2014
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Trouba is not slow. You are massively mischaracterizing him. He may never have become the elite 1st pair Dman we hoped for, but he is still very good. He has all the physical skills to be elite. It is the HIQ that may be letting him down.

If you are talking foot speed. I agree with you. But that is not what I was referring too. I was talking about his reactionary speed. His body speed. How fast his mind processes the game.

What were you referring too?
 

Mortimer Snerd

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If you are talking foot speed. I agree with you. But that is not what I was referring too. I was talking about his reactionary speed. His body speed. How fast his mind processes the game.

What were you referring too?

His foot speed, his acceleration, his skating speed, his agility. Brain speed is another matter but I don't think he is mentally slow exactly. He certainly has brain farts.
 

GumbyCan2

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Jul 7, 2019
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:laugh: Yeah, that is tossed around. A dirty play that could have happened to any small or medium sized player. Sure glad it was prevented by having Bitetto in the game. :sarcasm: Oh, it wasn't prevented? I'm sure it was avenged then. By Bitetto, right? :sarcasm:
Oops. Our tuff-guy(s) missed it. Just like the 4 striped dudes on the ice. Oh yes, and our coach, too. All missed it, yet here it is clear as daylight on tape?
Oh yah, we don't have a (any) tuff guys, do we? And a responsive coach who gets the respect of the refs. Anyways, 7 more games against them this year for Ehlers to embarrass a Wild player or 2 chasing him around and getting burned.
 
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GumbyCan2

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The Hayes trade was the one that is bad in retrospect. Not too many critics here at the time, but still a negative. The Trouba trade was forced. So far, it looks like Pionk might have been undervalued, and the Jets might have really nailed that #20 pick. Also, the cap considerations are really key. Jets couldn't keep Trouba without giving up a top young forward.
Pionk might just outperform many a fans expectations. Already see signs in his abilities to jump into the play and make some decent reads. A little bit of Toby Enstrom-like but much more offensively minded. Don't get me wrong here as I know he has many defensive-defenseman deficiencies but...he is showing some promise of value, contributing positively. Our overall team defensive acumen and execution has been more deplorable than not, as a whole. Most goals against in whole NHL so far, likelymost dangerous scoring opportunities against and shots allowed, too. Thank the Good Lord we have offensive prowess and are scoring at a similar pace, or this year would be hugely embarrassing by now! ( Mr.Huddy should be a cringing and shaking in his boots soon, if no turn around to the improvement side!)
 

MrBoJangelz71

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Jan 14, 2014
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The Jets gave up a 1st round pick for Hayes. The Rangers gave up a 1st round pick for Trouba. They cancel, and that removes Heinola from the equation. So the total from the Jets is Trouba and Lemieux, and the total from the Rangers is Pionk, a bit of Hayes, and the cap space. You can't ignore the fact the Jets gave the pick but include it for the Rangers. That's nothing more than blatant one-sided homer-ism.

Why cant we just assess each deal independently? They are 2 very different deals with different circumstances, that should be measured differently, regardless of the same teams being involved, and a draft asset being handed back and forth.

The going rate for trade deadline acquisitions, when acquiring a top line player, and regardless of what you thought of Hayes, he was a top liner, was a first and a prospect. That was the going rate and that dictated cost. Most TDL deals are over payments teams are willing to pay, if they feel its a piece that can get them over the hump. Its simple, you are either status quo and live with your team down the stretch, or assess weaknesses and make an over payment to fill them.

The Trouba trade was a trade the involved an expiring asset that wanted to play in a different market. You are dealing with a possible one year rental player. Now, knowing what we do, Trouba's agent controlled the cost teams were willing to pay by limiting the markets his player would resign in, which was one market according to reports. If that is the case, then the value of the asset is reduced because a bidding war is likely not to happen.

I think the TDL deal was a deal we most likely want back, knowing the end result, and the Trouba deal would have been more fruitful had it been done a year prior. 20/20 rear end vision assists us greatly here.

There is a bit of handcuffing that happens to a team in a situation like ours. Its easy to say, we shouldnt of, or we should of sooner, but at those times the answer was not easily seen. Its after the results come in that some stand up and say we should have done it differently.

Lets put it this way, we were a loss away 2 years ago from probably viewing the Stastny deal as a failure of Chevy's. Hell, we went to a conference finals and some still consider the deal to be bad.
 
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Board Bard

Dane-O-Mite
Jun 7, 2014
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Why cant we just assess each deal independently? They are 2 very different deals with different circumstances, that should be measured differently, regardless of the same teams being involved, and a draft asset being handed back and forth.

The going rate for trade deadline acquisitions, when acquiring a top line player, and regardless of what you thought of Hayes, he was a top liner, was a first and a prospect. That was the going rate and that dictated cost. Most TDL deals are over payments teams are willing to pay, if they feel its a piece that can get them over the hump. Its simple, you are either status quo and live with your team down the stretch, or assess weaknesses and make an over payment to fill them.

The Trouba trade was a trade the involved an expiring asset that wanted to play in a different market. You are dealing with a possible one year rental player. Now, knowing what we do, Trouba's agent controlled the cost teams were willing to pay by limiting the markets his player would resign in, which was one market according to reports. If that is the case, then the value of the asset is reduced because a bidding war is likely not to happen.

I think the TDL deal was a deal we most likely want back, knowing the end result, and the Trouba deal would have been more fruitful had it been done a year prior. 20/20 rear end vision assists us greatly here.

There is a bit of handcuffing that happens to a team in a situation like ours. Its easy to say, we shouldnt of, or we should of sooner, but at those times the answer was not easily seen. Its after the results come in that some stand up and say we should have done it differently.

Lets put it this way, we were a loss away 2 years ago from probably viewing the Stastny deal as a failure of Chevy's. Hell, we went to a conference finals and some still consider the deal to be bad.

I was just replying to a post that had its sums wrong. Doesn't really matter to me if they're considered one all-encompassing flurry of deals or entirely separate, but I do think one shouldn't have been made and the other could have been handled better.
 

BatVader

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I'm not so sure people are overvaluing him. I think most are him as a number 4 offensive dmen which is largely how he's played. Nothing special but not nothing either.
I’d say he’s closer to a #5, bottom pairing guy, that you could play in the middle pair if needed, based on his play on the Rags and in the last few games.
 

jgimp

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Sep 18, 2017
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I’d say he’s closer to a #5, bottom pairing guy, that you could play in the middle pair if needed, based on his play on the Rags and in the last few games.

I like what Pionk brings in offence but he appears to be a smaller Tyler Myers with less hitting. Someone who would excel in the bottom pair but can play up paired with the right player (Morrissey).
 

BatVader

"nothing is true; everything is permitted"
May 16, 2015
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I like what Pionk brings in offence but he appears to be a smaller Tyler Myers with less hitting. Someone who would excel in the bottom pair but can play up paired with the right player (Morrissey).
I agree, though I wouldn’t even consider putting him on the top pair with Morrissey.
Plus, the reason he looks good now is because the rest of our D looks so damn bad.
 

Jets 31

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I like what Pionk brings in offence but he appears to be a smaller Tyler Myers with less hitting. Someone who would excel in the bottom pair but can play up paired with the right player (Morrissey).
For a guy Myers size he barely hit and when he did all he did is hit the guy with his purse . Don't miss Myers at all ESPECIALLY at 6 million a season for 6 years .
 

Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
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Couple cheap D likely available are Hainsey & Scandella, both have one year term only............neither would cost a lot to get likely.
 
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