Rumor: Rumours & Proposals Thread | Enter Offseason

[Little Fury]

Yes it absolutely is. Did the team not improve drastically this year? Finished 4th in the west 9th in the league and 2nd in the division. 1 st on the PP 2nd on the PK. +8 in goal differential. This is a huge turnaround in one year. Holland knows how to build a winning team 25 straight years the Res Wings made the playoffs after being one of the worst teams for a very long time. What am I missing here?

Holland's work pre salary cap , when he had unlimited resources and lucked into Hall of Fame level players with late draft picks, is irrelevant to now.

I'll credit him for dumping Lucic and getting a guy who was useful this year, and for hiring Tippett, but he also loses points for the Broberg pick, the Kassian contract and not reining his coach's love affair with Mike Smith in. He needs to be better.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Holland's work pre salary cap , when he had unlimited resources and lucked into Hall of Fame level players with late draft picks, is irrelevant to now.

I'll credit him for dumping Lucic and getting a guy who was useful this year, and for hiring Tippett, but he also loses points for the Broberg pick, the Kassian contract and not reining his coach's love affair with Mike Smith in. He needs to be better.

So gets no points for getting “lucky” and drafting Hall of fame players but he loses points for drafting Broberg before he’s even had a chance to develop? So if Broberg becomes an absolute stud is it a “lucky” draft also?

 

[McDoused]

Holland's work pre salary cap , when he had unlimited resources and lucked into Hall of Fame level players with late draft picks, is irrelevant to now.

I'll credit him for dumping Lucic and getting a guy who was useful this year, and for hiring Tippett, but he also loses points for the Broberg pick, the Kassian contract and not reining his coach's love affair with Mike Smith in. He needs to be better.

Those are some weird criticisms of Holland. None of them correlate to our failures in the post season.

Having Zegras over Broberg is irrelevant at this point as neither are in the NHL.

Kassian was a UFA. I dont see how signing him in he future hurt us this year.

Mike Smith played one game before riding the pine. Is Holland supposed to oversee all coaching decisions now?

 

[Cloned]

IMO, those in the pipeline will never get a chance if you always hang onto the incumbents May is right in that our D are all horrible puck movers and skaters. That needs to change no matter what the advanced stats show.

Looking at good teams play right now paints a sobering picture of our D. Some of it just the system and forwards being faster and supporting the puck better, but some of it just the reality that most of our defensemen aren’t very good.

I’ve always thought that there is a “natural” way to play the game. Some players just get it and look engaged and can make the proper plays. This doesn’t necessarily have to do with attributes like size or speed, although those certainly can help.

So you look at a team like Vegas and see how smoothly their defenders play. They all look natural on the ice. It makes you think just where a player like Nurse or Larsson would even fit into their lineup. Those two are the absolute opposite of what you would consider natural on the ice. Most plays they make are forced, laborious exercises that don’t drive the play forward. Every team, even the good ones, might have one of these types of defenders in their lineup. The Oilers seem like they have 3 or 4. That’s the problem.

 

[Little Fury]

Those are some weird criticisms of Holland. None of them correlate to our failures in the post season.

So?

Having Zegras over Broberg is irrelevant at this point as neither are in the NHL.

Kassian was a UFA. I dont see how signing him in he future hurt us this year.

Mike Smith played one game before riding the pine. Is Holland supposed to oversee all coaching decisions now?

I think the GM should try to keep the coach from throwing games, yes.

 

[Little Fury]

Looking at good teams play right now paints a sobering picture of our D. Some of it just the system and forwards being faster and supporting the puck better, but some of it just the reality that most of our defensemen aren’t very good.

I’ve always thought that there is a “natural” way to play the game. Some players just get it and look engaged and can make the proper plays. This doesn’t necessarily have to do with attributes like size or speed, although those certainly can help.

So you look at a team like Vegas and see how smoothly their defenders play. They all look natural on the ice. It makes you think just where a player like Nurse or Larsson would even fit into their lineup. Those two are the absolute opposite of what you would consider natural on the ice. Most plays they make are forced, laborious exercises that don’t drive the play forward. Every team, even the good ones, might have one of these types of defenders in their lineup. The Oilers seem like they have 3 or 4. That’s the problem.

Or is the problem they force the play because the forwards are by and large crap? Vegas' d-corps isn't anything special, but they have legit forward depth.

 

[shoop]

I think the GM should try to keep the coach from throwing games, yes.

Do you have evidence of Tippett actually trying to throw the first game by starting Smith?

A reasonable interpretation is he played a hunch and got it wrong. But if you have proof the head coach was tanking the first game against Chicago it is certainly worth sharing.

 

[Rpenny]

If the Oilers let AA walk, I will be pissed of at wasting 2 2nd rounders

 

[Little Fury]

Do you have evidence of Tippett actually trying to throw the first game by starting Smith?

A reasonable interpretation is a played a hunch and got it wrong. But if you have proof the head coach was tanking the first game against Chicago it is certainly worth sharing.

Starting the demonstrably worst goaltender and leaving him in after he struggles early are exactly things someone trying to lose would do, but I don't actually think Tippett was doing it intentionally, he just got in his own way.

 

[Cloned]

Or is the problem they force the play because the forwards are by and large crap? Vegas' d-corps isn't anything special, but they have legit forward depth.

I mentioned that in my first paragraph. That’s part of it. But there’s the other part too.

How overrated is a guy like Nurse? How bad is Larsson, actually? These are sobering questions we have to face. They’re “name” players that might actually be worse game over game than names we typically associate with being “scrubs.” Players like McNabb, Mayfield, etc.

 

[Mr Positive]

If the Oilers let AA walk, I will be pissed of at wasting 2 2nd rounders

I say we should try to trade him for one 2nd

But I doubt we qualify him at his 3+ million so it means letting him walk. We can offer him what he's worth. If he wants to stay here he can

 

[Little Fury]

I mentioned that in my first paragraph. That’s part of it. But there’s the other part too.

How overrated is a guy like Nurse? How bad is Larsson, actually? These are sobering questions we have to face. They’re “name” players that might actually be worse game over game than names we typically associate with being “scrubs.” Players like McNabb, Mayfield, etc.

See I have a hard time buying that our guys are worse at hockey than those scrubs. Quality of teammates is a huge part of it as is the system they play. One thing that I've noticed that goes back to the McLellan days is how often they try to break out with long bomb passes through the neutral zone instead of making short quick passes to break out. That speaks to a lack of puck support from the forwards. The only F whoever seems to get the puck on his side of the blueline is McDavid, so I feel like this a coaching choice to compensate for an overall lack of speed upfront. So you end up with D who sometimes struggle to make those passes throwing pucks to forwards who struggle to receive pucks in stride.

 

[KahunWOW]

Klefbom + McLeod + 1st

for

Moritz Seider

Oilers can retool the defense and get a possible star in Seider as he was extremely good in the AHL and in my opinion goes top3 easily in a 2019 redraft.
Wings get an ok D in Klefbom with 3 more years contract and some future help in the middle in McLeod plus a mid first.

 

[T-Funk]

See I have a hard time buying that our guys are worse at hockey than those scrubs. Quality of teammates is a huge part of it as is the system they play. One thing that I've noticed that goes back to the McLellan days is how often they try to break out with long bomb passes through the neutral zone instead of making short quick passes to break out. That speaks to a lack of puck support from the forwards. The only F whoever seems to get the puck on his side of the blueline is McDavid, so I feel like this a coaching choice to compensate for an overall lack of speed upfront. So you end up with D who sometimes struggle to make those passes throwing pucks to forwards who struggle to receive pucks in stride.

I personally don't think these long bomb passes are being taught by the coaches. I think our defense just can't process what to do with the puck and panic. **At least with McDavid not on the ice**

 

[Cloned]

See I have a hard time buying that our guys are worse at hockey than those scrubs. Quality of teammates is a huge part of it as is the system they play. One thing that I've noticed that goes back to the McLellan days is how often they try to break out with long bomb passes through the neutral zone instead of making short quick passes to break out. That speaks to a lack of puck support from the forwards. The only F whoever seems to get the puck on his side of the blueline is McDavid, so I feel like this a coaching choice to compensate for an overall lack of speed upfront. So you end up with D who sometimes struggle to make those passes throwing pucks to forwards who struggle to receive pucks in stride.

Maybe, although Tippett did a decent job pre shutdown at installing a good breakout system. Our forwards just forgot how to do it after they came back (forgot is a euphemism for not committed).

But even during the regular season it stood out how poorly Nurse and Larsson fit in to any scheme. One is just positionally inconsistent and lacking in hockey sense, the other lacks the puck skills and skating to make plays with the puck.

 

[The Nuge]

Klefbom + McLeod + 1st

for

Moritz Seider

Oilers can retool the defense and get a possible star in Seider as he was extremely good in the AHL and in my opinion goes top3 easily in a 2019 redraft.
Wings get an ok D in Klefbom with 3 more years contract and some future help in the middle in McLeod plus a mid first.

How about **** no. Take out McLeod and switch who’s getting the 1st maybe. You don’t add massively to a top pairing dman on a bargain contract to get a prospect like Seider. I’m not even sure any player from the 2019 draft could get that package.

 

[Little Fury]

I personally don't think these long bomb passes are being taught by the coaches. I think our defense just can't process what to do with the puck and panic. **At least with McDavid not on the ice**

So why are the forwards always two zones ahead?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Klefbom + McLeod + 1st

for

Moritz Seider

Oilers can retool the defense and get a possible star in Seider as he was extremely good in the AHL and in my opinion goes top3 easily in a 2019 redraft.
Wings get an ok D in Klefbom with 3 more years contract and some future help in the middle in McLeod plus a mid first.

 

[Little Fury]

Maybe, although Tippett did a decent job pre shutdown at installing a good breakout system. Our forwards just forgot how to do it after they came back (forgot is a euphemism for not committed).

But even during the regular season it stood out how poorly Nurse and Larsson fit in to any scheme. One is just positionally inconsistent and lacking in hockey sense, the other lacks the puck skills and skating to make plays with the puck.

I think you're letting recency bias colour your recollections a bit. That said, they aren't perfect and they are definitely playing bigger roles than is ideal. But there's no way you improve the team by moving them even if you have a better D coming in, especially if they also fail to address teh forward problem.

 

[Cloned]

I think you're letting recency bias colour your recollections a bit. That said, they aren't perfect and they are definitely playing bigger roles than is ideal. But there's no way you improve the team by moving them even if you have a better D coming in, especially if they also fail to address teh forward problem.

I think the team was decent at breakouts during the regular season. Not as good as Vegas or an elite team obviously, but decent. But even during this decent phase, some defensemen still stood out for the wrong reasons.

Every position on this team needs upgrades.

 

[CupofOil]

Holland's work pre salary cap , when he had unlimited resources and lucked into Hall of Fame level players with late draft picks, is irrelevant to now.

I'll credit him for dumping Lucic and getting a guy who was useful this year, and for hiring Tippett, but he also loses points for the Broberg pick, the Kassian contract and not reining his coach's love affair with Mike Smith in. He needs to be better.

It's odd to give him black marks for a prospect who was just picked last year, a player who hasn't played one minute under the new contract yet (although yes, we all sort of knew it was an overpayment at the time especially the term) and for not telling the coach how to coach the team.

If anything, the AA trade looks like his biggest failure but then again, too early to tell on that too.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Klefbom + McLeod + 1st

for


Moritz Seider

Oilers can retool the defense and get a possible star in Seider as he was extremely good in the AHL and in my opinion goes top3 easily in a 2019 redraft.
Wings get an ok D in Klefbom with 3 more years contract and some future help in the middle in McLeod plus a mid first.

LOL this is a joke right??

 

[Beerfish]

Klefbom + McLeod + 1st

for

Moritz Seider

Oilers can retool the defense and get a possible star in Seider as he was extremely good in the AHL and in my opinion goes top3 easily in a 2019 redraft.
Wings get an ok D in Klefbom with 3 more years contract and some future help in the middle in McLeod plus a mid first.

You get an excel divide by zero error on this one as in there is ZERO chance the wings make that trade.

 

[KahunWOW]

LOL this is a joke right??

No, I love Seider and he won't come cheap

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Hypothetically speaking, if Andreas Johnsson and Kasperi Kapanen are available, who is the better fit for the Oilers?

Kapanen seems like he has more speed but lower IQ. He’s also the more gritty/feisty player and plays on the PK. 24 years old and 2 more years left at 3.2 million.

Johnsson probably has the higher hockey IQ which would make him a better fit beside McDavid, but he’s also slower and softer. I also don’t think he’s on the PK. 25 years old and 3 more years at 3.4 million.