Rumor: Rumours & Proposals Thread | Another One

[Canovin]

Just out of curiosity what would it take for posters to part with Dylan Holloway for some immediate help. I don't underestimate Holloway or deem him a throw in, I'm of the opinion he could be playing in the NHL now and will just keep establishing himself as a NHL player year after year.

How would the league's GMs value him? He should have absolutely been a top ten pick.

Blackwood

 

[SwedishFire]

Just out of curiosity what would it take for posters to part with Dylan Holloway for some immediate help. I don't underestimate Holloway or deem him a throw in, I'm of the opinion he could be playing in the NHL now and will just keep establishing himself as a NHL player year after year.

How would the league's GMs value him? He should have absolutely been a top ten pick.

Keep. I think he is really needed. Part with a winger prospect instead

 

[Samus44]

How much do you estimate for Yamo, Nuge and Barrie?

Yamo 2 Years x 3.5m
Barrie 3 years x 6m
Nuge 6 x 6.5m

Is what I would feel comfortable paying on all of them.

Leaves some money to maybe make a deal for Kuemper, sign a 3C and maybe look at bringing in another 3-4m dollar winger.

I find it hard to believe that Barrie would sign for only 3 years at 6 million, it's certainly ideal like that though. I also don't think Barrie over Larsson is a slam dunk decision. Larsson struggled early but he brings a heavy game that's VERY hard to find and even harder to play against. Nobody besides Nurse even comes close to being that difficult to play against on this roster. I'm not opposed to the Oilers signing both Larsson, say 3mx3y, and Barrie, say 6mx5y, and going with 8D moving forward. After the 4 we've got now I don't see a lot of help coming any time soon and I think it's a good mix. Maybe Berglund or Kemp become a depth guy in a year or two but I have a hard time seeing more than that out of them. Injuries happen and while the Oilers are waiting on their young guys to become the leaders on D I think they'd be well served having outstanding depth with a variety of talents. Barrie's talents are arguably duplicated by Bouchard but I'd argue outstanding offensive talent is hard to have too much of. I think it's a tough decision on the D.

You are right though a goalie is a massive priority. Personally I'd be looking at a buyout/retention deal involving Neal to create the space. Heck buying out Koskinen if it could help might not be a bad call either. I think cap space in a flat cap is worth a lot more now than it was and will be when the cap goes up. I also think it means the savings you could get on a goalie might make eating 1.5 for 2 years on Koskinen might make it a more valuable proposition than sticking with him.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Hall is the only one I worry about turning into Neal. Nuge will age well, and Barrie is on pace for over 60 points this year (paced over 82 games obviously). The last time we had a dman put up 60+ points was Paul Coffey. And that was in 1986/87. We absolutely must extend Barrie if his ask is even remotely fair

Hall already is closing in on Neal. In fact Neal has twice as many goals as Hall in half the games. Hall has known only 1 thing in his pro career and that is losing and losing big.

I think the Taylor Hall allure will be well worn off by the time Buffalo’ season mercifully ends. He might get a deal with a contender for half the money or less next year or take the money and run with another perennial loser franchise.

The Sharks like overpaying vets for what they used to be able to do, maybe he will be a Shark for 1 year and $8M next year? Mind you Doug Wilson likes signing these has-Beens to 7 year deals.

But then Hall said it wasn’t going to be about the money with his last contract cough cough cough.

 

[Canovin]

Barrie's value is probably at its highest in a long time. I'm one of the few who would package him for a better Dman like Parayko. We know Bouchard will take Barrie's spot in the near future and Parayko is a hometown boy who will likely re-sign. Quite honestly I rather pay Parayko 7M than pay Barrie 6M

Nurse-Parayko
Bear-Bouchard
Lagesson-Larsson
Samurai

 

[McShogun99]

I find it hard to believe that Barrie would sign for only 3 years at 6 million, it's certainly ideal like that though. I also don't think Barrie over Larsson is a slam dunk decision. Larsson struggled early but he brings a heavy game that's VERY hard to find and even harder to play against. Nobody besides Nurse even comes close to being that difficult to play against on this roster. I'm not opposed to the Oilers signing both Larsson, say 3mx3y, and Barrie, say 6mx5y, and going with 8D moving forward. After the 4 we've got now I don't see a lot of help coming any time soon and I think it's a good mix. Maybe Berglund or Kemp become a depth guy in a year or two but I have a hard time seeing more than that out of them. Injuries happen and while the Oilers are waiting on their young guys to become the leaders on D I think they'd be well served having outstanding depth with a variety of talents. Barrie's talents are arguably duplicated by Bouchard but I'd argue outstanding offensive talent is hard to have too much of. I think it's a tough decision on the D.

You are right though a goalie is a massive priority. Personally I'd be looking at a buyout/retention deal involving Neal to create the space. Heck buying out Koskinen if it could help might not be a bad call either. I think cap space in a flat cap is worth a lot more now than it was and will be when the cap goes up. I also think it means the savings you could get on a goalie might make eating 1.5 for 2 years on Koskinen might make it a more valuable proposition than sticking with him.

We need at least 1 big, defensive D on each side. A big team like Winnipeg just walks right thru our smaller D. Having Larsson and Nurse really helped to shut them down. That being said, I don’t think Larsson is worth 3 million. Harmonic is a similar Dman and he signed for 2.5. I think that’s a good comparison for Larsson.

 

[McShogun99]

Barrie's value is probably at its highest in a long time. I'm one of the few who would package him for a better Dman like Parayko. We know Bouchard will take Barrie's spot in the near future and Parayko is a hometown boy who will likely re-sign. Quite honestly I rather pay Parayko 7M than pay Barrie 6M

Nurse-Parayko
Bear-Bouchard
Lagesson-Larsson
Samurai

There’s no way the Blues let him go after losing Pietrangelo.

 

[Canovin]

There’s no way the Blues let him go after losing Pietrangelo.

I heard the same story with Pietrangelo. No way they let a player of caliber walk and then he walks

 

[Arpeggio]

The Oilers are not going to sign a better forward than Nugent-Hopkins in free agency, so if you let him go Holland better be damn sure that he can get two middle-six forwards, one of which can play in the top-six and one of which can PK, for the price of what you would've paid Nuge. And then you have to count on those forwards actually working out, which is often not the case in the 3 million dollar range for free agent forwards.

I dunno, I think it's a huge risk to let Nuge go right now.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I find it hard to believe that Barrie would sign for only 3 years at 6 million, it's certainly ideal like that though. I also don't think Barrie over Larsson is a slam dunk decision. Larsson struggled early but he brings a heavy game that's VERY hard to find and even harder to play against. Nobody besides Nurse even comes close to being that difficult to play against on this roster. I'm not opposed to the Oilers signing both Larsson, say 3mx3y, and Barrie, say 6mx5y, and going with 8D moving forward. After the 4 we've got now I don't see a lot of help coming any time soon and I think it's a good mix. Maybe Berglund or Kemp become a depth guy in a year or two but I have a hard time seeing more than that out of them. Injuries happen and while the Oilers are waiting on their young guys to become the leaders on D I think they'd be well served having outstanding depth with a variety of talents. Barrie's talents are arguably duplicated by Bouchard but I'd argue outstanding offensive talent is hard to have too much of. I think it's a tough decision on the D.

You are right though a goalie is a massive priority. Personally I'd be looking at a buyout/retention deal involving Neal to create the space. Heck buying out Koskinen if it could help might not be a bad call either. I think cap space in a flat cap is worth a lot more now than it was and will be when the cap goes up. I also think it means the savings you could get on a goalie might make eating 1.5 for 2 years on Koskinen might make it a more valuable proposition than sticking with him.

Seeing what other clubs have done with the buyout a buyout of Neal seems inevitable. I disagree with Koskinen unless a goaltender magically appears. The last time a goaltender magically appeared we ended up with Koskinen. Abracadabra.

We just can't jettison every contract that isn't pleasing.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I'd rather sign Barrie over RNH if I was forced to make a choice.

 

[alphahelix]

Barrie's value is probably at its highest in a long time. I'm one of the few who would package him for a better Dman like Parayko. We know Bouchard will take Barrie's spot in the near future and Parayko is a hometown boy who will likely re-sign. Quite honestly I rather pay Parayko 7M than pay Barrie 6m

Id rather pay Parayko 8M than Barrie 5M. The warts in Barries game are like a decrepit witches buttcrack. Parayko would be a savage overpay at 8M but you wouldnt be afraid hed be throwing every game away in the dying minutes. That has substantial value.

 

[soothsayer]

The Oilers are not going to sign a better forward than Nugent-Hopkins in free agency, so if you let him go Holland better be damn sure that he can get two middle-six forwards, one of which can play in the top-six and one of which can PK, for the price of what you would've paid Nuge. And then you have to count on those forwards actually working out, which is often not the case in the 3 million dollar range for free agent forwards.

I dunno, I think it's a huge risk to let Nuge go right now.

That's gotta be the main question being discussed behind closed doors, after the question of how firm the Oilers' offer should be. Do the Oilers keep him for a playoff push, or do they try to get something back for him that may not help much in the playoffs. (If the Oilers are clearly out of it, then it's probably an easier question to answer.) I'd add, if RNH walks, I think it's super likely Hall takes his place on the left wing next season.

 

[Samus44]

We need at least 1 big, defensive D on each side. A big team like Winnipeg just walks right thru our smaller D. Having Larsson and Nurse really helped to shut them down. That being said, I don’t think Larsson is worth 3 million. Harmonic is a similar Dman and he signed for 2.5. I think that’s a good comparison for Larsson.

I don't know if there is an absolute truth to how a D needs to be built to be honest but in general I agree with the idea of having shutdown guys on either side if only for balance. Like you I also have concerns about the right being to small and easy to play against but I also think good players should be retained. Barrie and Bouchard represent talent we should all know too well is very rare to come across. I also think Bouchard's size and skillset make him a possibility to bring the needed size to the right. Larsson to me is a great mentor for a guy like Bouchard, if he played in the Dzone like that Bouchard would be a #1D. You see how Weber has rubbed off on Petry and you hope that can happen here.

As for getting him at 2.5 I think you'd be hard pressed to make that deal. NHL GM's love these guys. Larsson after some early struggles has looked like a legit shutdown defenseman in my books. I don't think Hamonic brings the same physicality as Larsson and a better comparable from last off season would be Gudas which in fairness to you is the same amount. I'd love if they could get him on the Gudas deal but I feel he has a reputation that's going to garner a bit more and he's honestly IMO a better player. How many guys are actually like Larsson and potentially affordable? He crushes people to dust, it's insane. Not even Nurse is that tough in the corners and in front. Hamonic isn't close. Matt Greene was the last guy here who was as naturally punishing IMO and to your point he's got some Cup rings. Regher is maybe the best comparison I can think of and there aren't a lot of his type around anymore. So 2.5 million sounds nice and all but I think other GM's would drive the price up from that, I'd even argue the 3 million I suggested is a bit of a hometown discount. In saying all that I still want to see how the back holds up and there's lots of hockey to be played.

 

[Soundwave]

Barrie can help the Oilers for 1-2 years, the problem is he's going to want like a 5-6 year contract, so in 3 years time you may be kicking yourself.

 

[Samus44]

Seeing what other clubs have done with the buyout a buyout of Neal seems inevitable. I disagree with Koskinen unless a goaltender magically appears. The last time a goaltender magically appeared we ended up with Koskinen. Abracadabra.

We just can't jettison every contract that isn't pleasing.

It's not a decision they do unless it makes sense. If there's a guy available and they need 3 million in cap space to get him and he's an upgrade than why not. Use an arbitration buy out window and get your guy. With the flat cap there's the potential to save 1.5 million on a big but short term ticket. The flat cap makes saving the 3m worth more than the 1.5m in cap hit and Hollands offseason is the greatest proof of it. Koskinen's buyout would only be on the cap for 2 years, 2 years of a flat cap that has made the 3 million in savings worth far more in capspace than in a normal year with cap growth. This needs to be factored in. Jettisoning contracts that aren't pleasing should be the goal if they stand in the way of an upgrade. If they buyout Neal and Koskinen that would give them about 6.5 million in capspace, or in other words enough to land Markstrom last offseason (and potentially with 1 year less term). It makes sense to adjust your thinking when facing a new reality and the reality of this cap crunch caused by the flat cap means players can be signed at an unprecedented discount. Ask Tyson Barrie, Dominik Kahun, Andreas Athanasiou, Slater Koekkoek, and the countless other players that had to settle for less. Even the aforementioned Markstrom likely got a fair bit less than he would have had Covid not happened.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Barrie can help the Oilers for 1-2 years, the problem is he's going to want like a 5-6 year contract, so in 3 years time you may be kicking yourself.

And RNH in three years time? Barrie very well might outlast him as an effective player.

 

[Samus44]

Id rather pay Parayko 8M than Barrie 5M. The warts in Barries game are like a decrepit witches buttcrack. Parayko would be a savage overpay at 8M but you wouldnt be afraid hed be throwing every game away in the dying minutes. That has substantial value.

You'd be lucky to get Parayko at 8. He's worth it, the guy does everything well. His size and skating will keep him effective for a long time IMO.

 

[Soundwave]

And RNH in three years time?

I think he'll probably still be able to pick up gravy points with McDavid or Draisaitl in that case.

With Barrie likely he eventually has cede the top unit PP to Bouchard sooner or later and then you have Broberg coming also.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I heard the same story with Pietrangelo. No way they let a player of caliber walk and then he walks

Let a player walk? They have no say in the matter if he wants to walk.

 

[belair]

Barrie can help the Oilers for 1-2 years, the problem is he's going to want like a 5-6 year contract, so in 3 years time you may be kicking yourself.

How many teams kick themselves for having a 32 year old defenseman scoring at elite levels? As long as you can keep the cap number from getting into unheard of territory, signing him should be pretty obvious.

I'm wondering if a 2 or 3 year deal is even possible considering the cap is likely to rise beyond that window and Barrie is still likely to be productive at that point.

 

[Soundwave]

How many teams kick themselves for having a 32 year old defenseman scoring at elite levels? As long as you can keep the cap number from getting into unheard of territory, signing him should be pretty obvious.

I'm wondering if a 2 or 3 year deal is even possible considering the cap is likely to rise beyond that window and Barrie is still likely to be productive at that point.

I doubt his agent will let him sign a deal under 5-6 years.

6 per x 5 years is probably about what he's looking for, the problem is in 3 years you're probably looking at Nurse at a higher cap hit plus Yamamoto at a higher hit, potentially Puljujarvi, plus RNH and Bear too, then your Bouchard extension and you need to spend on a goalie also.

If you're keeping him then I think you also have to commit to Larsson walking and Klefbom gone ... you can't just have all this salary tied up back there when you're going to have a bunch of young players that need raises coming up in subsequent years.

 

[CupofOil]

Just out of curiosity what would it take for posters to part with Dylan Holloway for some immediate help. I don't underestimate Holloway or deem him a throw in, I'm of the opinion he could be playing in the NHL now and will just keep establishing himself as a NHL player year after year.

How would the league's GMs value him? He should have absolutely been a top ten pick.

No interest whatsoever in dealing Holloway for anything that can be realistically had for him. For instance, you're not getting a legit top pairing for Holloway as a centerpiece.

I'd trade any player in the system including Broberg before him.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I doubt his agent will let him sign a deal under 5-6 years.

6 per x 5 years is probably about what he's looking for, the problem is in 3 years you're probably looking at Nurse at a higher cap hit plus Yamamoto at a higher hit, potentially Puljujarvi, plus RNH and Bear too, then your Bouchard extension and you need to spend on a goalie also.

If you're keeping him then I think you also have to commit to Larsson walking and Klefbom gone ... you can't just have all this salary tied up back there when you're going to have a bunch of young players that need raises coming up in subsequent years.

I've lowered my expectations considerably on Bear. Can't see can't critique I guess.

 

[belair]

I doubt his agent will let him sign a deal under 5-6 years.

6 per x 5 years is probably about what he's looking for, the problem is in 3 years you're probably looking at Nurse at a higher cap hit plus Yamamoto at a higher hit, potentially Puljujarvi, plus RNH and Bear too, then your Bouchard extension and you need to spend on a goalie also.

If you're keeping him then I think you also have to commit to Larsson walking and Klefbom gone ... you can't just have all this salary tied up back there when you're going to have a bunch of young players that need raises coming up in subsequent years.

Even then, a 50+ point defenseman in his early 30s who plays a nonphysical game is going to have value on the open market at $6m with a rising cap. A $7m RNH is going to have value on the open market with a rising cap. You can manage those contracts. What you can't manage is losing that production.

Having Barrie in Edmonton performing at an elite level caps Bouchard's growth during his ELC. It potentially limits the amount you'll need to spend on an extension three years from now.

All three of those guys...Barrie, Nurse, Nuge... you won't replace them. Pay them.