Speculation: Rumour, Trade, and Free Agent Speculation 2018-19 - Part XI

[Trinity]

How's this trade?

Jets get: Patrick, Ghost, 11OA
Philly gets: Trouba, Ehlers, Philly's 5th rounder back

Still not enough for the Jets?

 

[surixon]

I should say last year. I think the previous years he was producing at a top line rate. He falls off a cliff in the playoffs to much for my liking. I doubt they trade him though it would have to be something they couldn't say no too

Well the whole team struggled at ES last year so he wasn't alone there.

Sure his production is going to have to improve in the playoffs. I would be more concerned if his underlying rates weren't still elite. The law of averages would indicate that the points will come if he's still driving chances and shots the way he currently is in the post season.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

How's this trade?

Jets get: Patrick, Ghost, 11OA
Philly gets: Trouba, Ehlers, Philly's 5th rounder back

Still not enough for the Jets?

I think we come out of that a much worse team

 

[surixon]

How's this trade?

Jets get: Patrick, Ghost, 11OA
Philly gets: Trouba, Ehlers, Philly's 5th rounder back

Still not enough for the Jets?

Switch ghost to Sanheim and I'd do it.

 

[Trinity]

Switch ghost to Sanheim and I'd do it.

Yes, but I doubt Philly does that. They see Sanheim the same way we see Morrissey.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I'd rather keep them both and trade Laine.

I don't know why we would trade our youngest most talented players period. We could have them for the next decade.

 

[Gm0ney]

Everyone saw how to neutralize our PP by mid season last year. It wasn't just take away Laine's shot, it was easy to see what we were going to do.

October - January: 26.4%, 4th
February-April: 22.0%, 8th

I don't know if "neutralize" is the right word here...

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Well the whole team struggled at ES last year so he wasn't alone there.

Sure his production is going to have to improve in the playoffs. I would be more concerned if his underlying rates weren't still elite. The law of averages would indicate that the points will come if he's still driving chances and shots the way he currently is in the post season.

So I had some good talks with scouts about Ehlers. They echo everything you say but they wonder if what he would bring back would be more valuable to you as a team then what he can give you. Brought up Jonathan Drouin and his numbers and what he could do and if he was worth more than what they got back, they got back an eltie level Defenseman that is cost controlled which is super important for them going forward.

I would be all for trading Ehlers or Connor if we got something like that in return. I think it is kind of what you have to be thinking in the cap world.

So lets say the trade is Sanheim and 11th overall for Ehlers. I doubt I say no.

 

[Trinity]

I don't know why we would trade our youngest most talented players period. We could have them for the next decade.

I think this is under the context of we can only keep one of the three.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I should say last year. I think the previous years he was producing at a top line rate. He falls off a cliff in the playoffs to much for my liking. I doubt they trade him though it would have to be something they couldn't say no too

I think last year is a problem for most of the team, when we are trying to place a value on each of them. The two previous years would cause us to value most of our high end talent, much higher.

I think we should throw last year's individual stats out the window, as I don't think they are reliably indicative of what each of the players are in the long term.

 

[surixon]

So I had some good talks with scouts about Ehlers. They echo everything you say but they wonder if what he would bring back would be more valuable to you as a team then what he can give you. Brought up Jonathan Drouin and his numbers and what he could do and if he was worth more than what they got back, they got back an eltie level Defenseman that is cost controlled which is super important for them going forward.

I would be all for trading Ehlers or Connor if we got something like that in return. I think it is kind of what you have to be thinking in the cap world.

So lets say the trade is Sanheim and 11th overall for Ehlers. I doubt I say no.

I doubt I say no either but that is only because we are short on impact d in our cores age range.

Moving Ehlers is going to hurt our ability to gain clean zone entries up front though and that is problematic given all the data that shows more goals are scored based on clean entries. Although a change in philosophy by Maurice might mitigate the loss if more emphasis is put on carrying in vs dumping. No reason why all of Connor, Roslovic, Wheeler, Scheifele and Ves can't gain the zone with control. All have the speed, skill and vision to do it.

 

[Howard Chuck]

October - January: 26.4%, 4th
February-April: 22.0%, 8th

I don't know if "neutralize" is the right word here...

Is this PP in general or just PP1. I think that PP2 bailed us out a few times. I usually think of PP1 when I'm thinking of the issues. PP2 is usually more creative and quick.

It would be awesome to combine the two best qualities.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I doubt I say no either but that is only because we are short on impact d in our cores age range.

Moving Ehlers is going to hurt our ability to gain clean zone entries up front though and that is problematic given all the data that shows more goals are scored based on clean entries. Although a change in philosophy by Maurice might mitigate the loss if more emphasis is put on carrying in vs dumping. No reason why all of Connor, Roslovic, Wheeler, Scheifele and Ves can't gain the zone with control. All have the speed, skill and vision to do it.

I think that is what they have to be looking at but it would have to be the right deal that comes along. I think teams want Ehlers because of all the reasons you stated before. He is a driver and he can be real effective in the regular season. A team like Philly wants a guy like that. They have to be willing to give us something that we really need back though to make a trade.

 

[surixon]

Is this PP in general or just PP1. I think that PP2 bailed us out a few times. I usually think of PP1 when I'm thinking of the issues. PP2 is usually more creative and quick.

It would be awesome to combine the two best qualities.

Pp 2 is more creative but they don't have the players line up properly to really take advantage. They don't open up any one timers as all our players are on their strong sides and not off sides.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Pp 2 is more creative but they don't have the players line up properly to really take advantage. They don't open up any one timers as all our players are on their strong sides and not off sides.

But their creativity on the fly and lack of 'lining up' created lots of chances for them. That's why I would like a combination of PP1's talent and PP2's ability to be creative in the context of what the opposing PK is giving them.

 

[Trinity]

I agree with Joe, though maybe you didn't ask me either. I think that is a trade that makes the Jets much worse.

I'm quite skeptical about Patrick's potential.

You're cool. No issues with you

 

[LowLefty]

I doubt I say no either but that is only because we are short on impact d in our cores age range.

Moving Ehlers is going to hurt our ability to gain clean zone entries up front though and that is problematic given all the data that shows more goals are scored based on clean entries. Although a change in philosophy by Maurice might mitigate the loss if more emphasis is put on carrying in vs dumping. No reason why all of Connor, Roslovic, Wheeler, Scheifele and Ves can't gain the zone with control. All have the speed, skill and vision to do it.

The dumping isn't on Maurice unless you heard him say he prefers that game - I've never heard that.
More likely we dumped due to lack of options after being pinned in our own end for the majority of the shift based on a lack of effort / defensive drive in our own end.
And we know that Maurice didn't suggest less effort.

 

[DRW204]

How's this trade?

Jets get: Patrick, Ghost, 11OA
Philly gets: Trouba, Ehlers, Philly's 5th rounder back

Still not enough for the Jets?

not a fan of trading Ehlers tbh so i don't like it.

 

[surixon]

But their creativity on the fly and lack of 'lining up' created lots of chances for them. That's why I would like a combination of PP1's talent and PP2's ability to be creative in the context of what the opposing PK is giving them.

I think you can keep the creativity while opening up shots more. Ideally you might be able to create a Tampa type set up.

 

[Trinity]

This could impact Trouba trade talks:

Sounds like Kevin Hayes was impressed by his visit with #Flyers. Money talks, so we’ll see, but they have work to do to entice him not to go to market. My understanding is PHI isn’t No. 1 on his list at the moment. That can change. I believe he’d be intrigued by #CBJ and #Coyotes

 

[Whileee]

I think you can keep the creativity while opening up shots more. Ideally you might be able to create a Tampa type set up.

I've been surprised that they have never interchanged Wheeler and Connor on the right side after it goes to the point. That would give them a couple of one-timer shooting options from a pass from the point, and perhaps open up a bit more space with Connor as a scoring threat. Wheeler is basically a one-trick pony from that spot. He is only dangerous as a passer.

 

[DRW204]

This could impact Trouba trade talks:

Sounds like Kevin Hayes was impressed by his visit with #Flyers. Money talks, so we’ll see, but they have work to do to entice him not to go to market. My understanding is PHI isn’t No. 1 on his list at the moment. That can change. I believe he’d be intrigued by #CBJ and #Coyotes

if i were him, unless i am enamored with playing under AV again, id hit July 1. Asides from Duchene he's the only notable top 6 calibre C, he's gonna get paid

 

[Trinity]

if i were him, unless i am enamored with playing under AV again id hit July 1. Asides from Duchene he's the only notable top 6 calibre C

Either way, he's smart to use others teams as leverage.

 

[Gm0ney]

Is this PP in general or just PP1. I think that PP2 bailed us out a few times. I usually think of PP1 when I'm thinking of the issues. PP2 is usually more creative and quick.

It would be awesome to combine the two best qualities.

That was overall PP%. PP1 did take a hit when Buff was injured. The big point shot (or threat of it) is an important part of the Jets first unit powerplay. Buff's a pretty good passer and decision maker too. When Trouba subbed in, the unit did well at first but I think what teams keyed in on was that the point threat wasn't the same without Buff and that allowed them to shut down the Wheeler-Laine connection.

Still, the Jets have been running the same powerplay for ages and it remains very effective. Teams know what's coming but there's not a whole lot they can do about it. If Laine's dialed in and he gets the puck in the right spot, it's going in.

 

[DRW204]

Either way, he's smart to use others teams as leverage.

yea he should explore all his options for sure. but he can't really get into that until the week prior to UFA right?