Speculation: Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2019-20 Pt. VII: The Lou Awakens

[Tahoeblue]

The only way you'll ever know that is if a deal eventually gets consummated.

You would have to think the Wild were asking for a quality asset as well as Ladd. I can only speculate, but if it was Bellows or maybe even Wilde, I am content that it didn't happen.

 

[danteipp]

I have to believe that Lou is going to be watching Bailey and Leddy very closely the rest of the way. As has been discussed, trading one or both for some mix of futures and/or cheaper assets is an easy way to free up money to try to add a goal scorer.

I am sure Lou will revisit the Parise trade first, because he would probably love to have Parise in the locker room and working with young forwards like Barzal, Beau, Wahlstrom, Bellows, Holmstrom, etc. If it is a deal that manages to shed Ladd, and isn't too cost prohibitive in terms of secondary pieces, I could live with taking on Parise's contract.

The rest of this season is going to be very important for a handful of Islanders players.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The best case scenario with be Lou making a Hamonic type trade with Leddy (value won't be the same). I think you then make a decision regarding if Bailey is worth keeping here (I think so) or trading away.

If you trade Leddy, get picks in return, and sign Hoffman I think that is one of the better cases possible.

 

[SI]

The best case scenario with be Lou making a Hamonic type trade with Leddy (value won't be the same). I think you then make a decision regarding if Bailey is worth keeping here (I think so) or trading away.

If you trade Leddy, get picks in return, and sign Hoffman I think that is one of the better cases possible.

Sorry for the many spreadsheets, but if the Isles bury Ladd's contract and the Isles sign Hoffman for say 6 AAV and they trade Leddy for picks. I have the team only .6 over a 84.5 cap - if they are able to get Hoffman for just under 6 and Barzal for just under 9 - they are there.

FORWARDS		DEFENSE & GOALIE		BURIED
Barzal	9	Pulock	6.25	Ladd	4.45
Lee	7	Boychuk	6
Eberle	5.5	Dobson	0.925
Nelson	6	Toews	2.5
Beauvillier	2.1	Pelech	1.6
Bailey	5	Mayfield	1.45
Pageau	5	Hickey	2.5
Komarov	3
Cizikas	3.35
Clutterbuck	3.5	Varlamov	5
Johnston	1	Sorokin	0.925
Dal Colle	0.7			TOTAL BURIED	4.45
Bellows	0.894
Hoffman	6
TOTAL F	58.044	TOTAL D & G	27.15	TOTAL w/ Ladd	89.644
				TOTAL w/o Ladd	85.194
				The difference if CAP IS 84.5	-0.694

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[SI]

The breakdown if Parise is the acquisition - I have the team 2.2 over an 84.5 cap - In this scenario, Wild could retain some salary or take on Hickey's contract as well.

FORWARDS		DEFENSE & GOALIE		BURIED
Barzal	9	Pulock	6.25	Ladd	TRADED
Lee	7	Boychuk	6
Eberle	5.5	Dobson	0.925
Nelson	6	Toews	2.5
Beauvillier	2.1	Pelech	1.6
Bailey	5	Mayfield	1.45
Pageau	5	Hickey	2.5
Komarov	3
Cizikas	3.35
Clutterbuck	3.5	Varlamov	5
Johnston	1	Sorokin	0.925
Dal Colle	0.7			TOTAL BURIED	0
Bellows	0.894
PARISE	7.5
TOTAL F	59.544	TOTAL D & G	27.15	TOTAL	86.694
				The difference if CAP IS 84.5	-2.194

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I'm surprised by the amount of people who are so quick to trade Leddy. For some reason he's become a whipping boy around here but pretty sure Trotz has a different opinion. Look how much ice time he gets and look at how Trotz always trusts him in critical situations. Guys, we are NOT deep on defense and can ill-afford to lose our fastest, and one of the best, skaters on the entire team (not just on the blue line). We may have adequate NHL-level depth quantity-wise but certainly not quality. We lose Pelech for a few weeks and unravel like a cheap sweater, struggling to go .500 and force a deadline deal to bolster the back-end.

If we MUST trade a defenseman for cap purposes I'd nominate Boychuk. Would hate to see him go but better him than Leddy. But my fist choice(s) would be wingers. Not surprisingly Ladd, Clutterbuck, Komarov and Bailey (as a last resort).

I may be in the minority here but I think Leddy is still very valuable and I would be very reluctant to dump him.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

I'm surprised by the amount of people who are so quick to trade Leddy. For some reason he's become a whipping boy around here but pretty sure Trotz has a different opinion. Look how much ice time he gets and look at how Trotz always trusts him in critical situations. Guys, we are NOT deep on defense and can ill-afford to lose our fastest, and one of the best, skaters on the entire team (not just on the blue line). We may have adequate NHL-level depth quantity-wise but certainly not quality. We lose Pelech for a few weeks and unravel like a cheap sweater, struggling to go .500 and force a deadline deal to bolster the back-end.

If we MUST trade a defenseman for cap purposes I'd nominate Boychuk. Would hate to see him go but better him than Leddy. But my fist choice(s) would be wingers. Not surprisingly Ladd, Clutterbuck, Komarov and Bailey (as a last resort).

I may be in the minority here but I think Leddy is still very valuable and I would be very reluctant to dump him.

Leddy is one of the only guys who is coveted and he makes more then Toews and Pelech, that's why people are quick to include him. I agree, he brings an element of speed to this team that we would sorely miss.

The other perspective I see here is that his often casual demeanor and lack of physical play has him seen as the Brock of the Blueline.

Either way, you want to shed salary and open up cap space, Leddy is a prime guy.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I'm surprised by the amount of people who are so quick to trade Leddy. For some reason he's become a whipping boy around here but pretty sure Trotz has a different opinion. Look how much ice time he gets and look at how Trotz always trusts him in critical situations. Guys, we are NOT deep on defense and can ill-afford to lose our fastest, and one of the best, skaters on the entire team (not just on the blue line). We may have adequate NHL-level depth quantity-wise but certainly not quality. We lose Pelech for a few weeks and unravel like a cheap sweater, struggling to go .500 and force a deadline deal to bolster the back-end.

If we MUST trade a defenseman for cap purposes I'd nominate Boychuk. Would hate to see him go but better him than Leddy. But my fist choice(s) would be wingers. Not surprisingly Ladd, Clutterbuck, Komarov and Bailey (as a last resort).

I may be in the minority here but I think Leddy is still very valuable and I would be very reluctant to dump him.

I do not want to deal Leddy either. Do you see a team willingly taking on Boychuk's contract though? Somebody has to go if the Islanders are to add a scorer this season.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I do not want to deal Leddy either. Do you see a team willingly taking on Boychuk's contract though? Somebody has to go if the Islanders are to add a scorer this season.

If the only way to acquire a scorer is to trade Leddy for picks then I don't acquire a scorer. And Boychuk can still play. And like I said, I'd rather trade Bailey than Leddy.

 

[SI]

I'm surprised by the amount of people who are so quick to trade Leddy. For some reason he's become a whipping boy around here but pretty sure Trotz has a different opinion. Look how much ice time he gets and look at how Trotz always trusts him in critical situations. Guys, we are NOT deep on defense and can ill-afford to lose our fastest, and one of the best, skaters on the entire team (not just on the blue line). We may have adequate NHL-level depth quantity-wise but certainly not quality. We lose Pelech for a few weeks and unravel like a cheap sweater, struggling to go .500 and force a deadline deal to bolster the back-end.

If we MUST trade a defenseman for cap purposes I'd nominate Boychuk. Would hate to see him go but better him than Leddy. But my fist choice(s) would be wingers. Not surprisingly Ladd, Clutterbuck, Komarov and Bailey (as a last resort).

I may be in the minority here but I think Leddy is still very valuable and I would be very reluctant to dump him.

I believe most are in agreement with you.

I would hate to lose Leddy too, but he is the most likely candidate to get moved - not only to help clear cap space, but also to help replenish picks.

I can see Boychuk getting moved, but salary would need to be retained or an asset would have to be attached.

The team also has to look towards expansion... is Leddy going to be protected - another reason to ship him out during the offseason and get back assets.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I believe most are in agreement with you.

I would hate to lose Leddy too, but he is the most likely candidate to get moved - not only to help clear cap space, but also to help replenish picks.

I can see Boychuk getting moved, but salary would need to be retained or an asset would have to be attached.

The team also has to look towards expansion... is Leddy going to be protected - another reason to ship him out during the offseason and get back assets.

Maybe in a fantasy hockey mindset but I don't see how Lou and Trotz would be behind this.

 

[NC 1972]

I'm surprised by the amount of people who are so quick to trade Leddy. For some reason he's become a whipping boy around here but pretty sure Trotz has a different opinion. Look how much ice time he gets and look at how Trotz always trusts him in critical situations. Guys, we are NOT deep on defense and can ill-afford to lose our fastest, and one of the best, skaters on the entire team (not just on the blue line). We may have adequate NHL-level depth quantity-wise but certainly not quality. We lose Pelech for a few weeks and unravel like a cheap sweater, struggling to go .500 and force a deadline deal to bolster the back-end.

If we MUST trade a defenseman for cap purposes I'd nominate Boychuk. Would hate to see him go but better him than Leddy. But my fist choice(s) would be wingers. Not surprisingly Ladd, Clutterbuck, Komarov and Bailey (as a last resort).

I may be in the minority here but I think Leddy is still very valuable and I would be very reluctant to dump him.

I think much of the negative surrounding leddy stems from the horrible +/- numbers he had a few years back, it’s seems BT has remedied that. But he’s often considered part of a package in attaining a top tier forward. Certainly as stated above we are shallow in the D area, but new toys are always shinier and people view him possibly as blocking Dobsons path. His ability to skate out of danger and zone entries would be difficult to replace. No slight to Dobson he will be very good one day but we all know about D-men especially one so young they need seasoning.

 

[SI]

Maybe in a fantasy hockey mindset but I don't see how Lou and Trotz would be behind this.

It's not a fantasy hockey mindset - it's about balance and roster management.

• RFA's and the CAP. In the offseason, the team's 1st priority will be to sign their 3 RFA's - Barzal, Pulock, & Toews, and if last season is any indication it will not be easy. And the hope is the cap rises 3 million, but it is possible it doesn't. signing all 3 could mean somewhere between 16 to 18 million.
• Cap Space. The next priority will be to clear cap space to sign these RFA players - can Lou rid the team of Ladd and Hickey? It would mean sending out more assets (picks/prospects) to do so.
• Leddy > Boychuk. Would Lou & Barry prefer Leddy over Boychuk? For sure, but again that means retaining salary and attaching an asset to move Boychuk's cap hit.
• Picks. Lou sent out 2020 1st and 2nd as well as 2021 2nd- trading an established top 4 Puck moving D man with a good cap hit and term can help replenish picks - we saw that with Hamonic. Hell Martinez brought back to 2nd's.
• Bailey > Leddy. Bailey has a good cap hit at 5 AAV, but for 4 more years. I wonder if a team would give up 2 2nds for Bailey rather than sign say Toffoli or Smith or Granlund and keep their picks.
• LHD. Pelech and Toews have leaped over Leddy on the depth chart. Toews mans PP1 and Pelech is the shutdown D.
• Expansion. Isles will most likely go 7-3-1 route. 3 d would be Pulock, Pelech, & Toews.
• Greene. If Lou can somehow convince Greene to take a lot less to play his career out with Isles as well as find cap space, then I believe Lou and Trotz could stomach a Leddy trade.

All of these factor into the decision of why Leddy over Boychuk. It's NOT personal. I think we would all prefer to keep Leddy just seeing things as they are... it looks like Leddy.

 

[YearlyLottery]

If the only way to acquire a scorer is to trade Leddy for picks then I don't acquire a scorer. And Boychuk can still play. And like I said, I'd rather trade Bailey than Leddy.

Boychuk can still play but he does not hold much value in an actual trade due to the cap hit. Bailey getting dealt means they NEED to find a scorer because if you trade Bailey for picks and then miss out on the goal scorer your offense is worse.

The worst thing Lou can do is stand pat offensively this offseason. Unless he somehow views Wahlstrom or Bellows as being full time players next season.

 

[doublechili]

When speculating about the Cap, I really think people need to more seriously consider the possibility/probability that Barzal signs a 2 or 3 year contract in the $6-7 million range. It's probably in both his and the Isles' interests to do that.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

It's not a fantasy hockey mindset - it's about balance and roster management.

• RFA's and the CAP. In the offseason, the team's 1st priority will be to sign their 3 RFA's - Barzal, Pulock, & Toews, and if last season is any indication it will not be easy. And the hope is the cap rises 3 million, but it is possible it doesn't. signing all 3 could mean somewhere between 16 to 18 million.
• Cap Space. The next priority will be to clear cap space to sign these RFA players - can Lou rid the team of Ladd and Hickey? It would mean sending out more assets (picks/prospects) to do so.
• Leddy > Boychuk. Would Lou & Barry prefer Leddy over Boychuk? For sure, but again that means retaining salary and attaching an asset to move Boychuk's cap hit.
• Picks. Lou sent out 2020 1st and 2nd as well as 2021 2nd- trading an established top 4 Puck moving D man with a good cap hit and term can help replenish picks - we saw that with Hamonic. Hell Martinez brought back to 2nd's.
• Bailey > Leddy. Bailey has a good cap hit at 5 AAV, but for 4 more years. I wonder if a team would give up 2 2nds for Bailey rather than sign say Toffoli or Smith or Granlund and keep their picks.
• LHD. Pelech and Toews have leaped over Leddy on the depth chart. Toews mans PP1 and Pelech is the shutdown D.
• Expansion. Isles will most likely go 7-3-1 route. 3 d would be Pulock, Pelech, & Toews.
• Greene. If Lou can somehow convince Greene to take a lot less to play his career out with Isles as well as find cap space, then I believe Lou and Trotz could stomach a Leddy trade.

All of these factor into the decision of why Leddy over Boychuk. It's NOT personal. I think we would all prefer to keep Leddy just seeing things as they are... it looks like Leddy.

I get all that. But my opinion, and I bet LL's and Trotz's as well, is that Leddy would be one of the last you part with.

 

[SI90]

When speculating about the Cap, I really think people need to more seriously consider the possibility/probability that Barzal signs a 2 or 3 year contract in the $6-7 million range. It's probably in both his and the Isles' interests to do that.

agreed. I think he’s in the tween stages. Has the talent and potential but just hasn’t shown you can give him 9+million per for 7-8 years. A bridge seems much more likely to me. Unless Lou uses Jedi mind tricks and gets Barzal to take a team friendly deal.

 

[benedictTavares]

agreed. I think he’s in the tween stages. Has the talent and potential but just hasn’t shown you can give him 9+million per for 7-8 years. A bridge seems much more likely to me. Unless Lou uses Jedi mind tricks and gets Barzal to take a team friendly deal.

Pulock and Barzal are probably going to sign bridge deals. I don't see any of our RFA's getting long deals. Maybe Beau will get a 4-5 year deal if he takes a discount.

 

[SI]

When speculating about the Cap, I really think people need to more seriously consider the possibility/probability that Barzal signs a 2 or 3 year contract in the $6-7 million range. It's probably in both his and the Isles' interests to do that.

I think that it is certainly very possible to see a deal signed that was similar to Brayden Point.
or even a deal like Meier's - a 4 year deal with the final year seeing a high spike in salary, guaranteeing more $ for the player over a 5-year term and a lower cap hit for the team as well.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Boychuk can still play but he does not hold much value in an actual trade due to the cap hit. Bailey getting dealt means they NEED to find a scorer because if you trade Bailey for picks and then miss out on the goal scorer your offense is worse.

The worst thing Lou can do is stand pat offensively this offseason. Unless he somehow views Wahlstrom or Bellows as being full time players next season.

I'd rather stand pat offensively if the alternative is to trade Leddy for picks.

I advocate trading Bailey only IF we HAVE to shed salary and IF we get an upgrade forward via UFA.

 

[SI]

Pulock and Barzal are probably going to sign bridge deals. I don't see any of our RFA's getting long deals. Maybe Beau will get a 4-5 year deal if he takes a discount.

Pulock had his bridge deal - he will look to get paid - Tyler Myers got over 6 million and Trouba 8 - I'd say Pulock gets somewhere in between.

 

[doublechili]

Larry Brooks with a piece about how Lou trying to get Parise is in character for him re: players who left him previously.

"Bobby Holik walked out the door as a free agent so he could sign with the Rangers. Scott Gomez did the same thing. Jason Arnott had been sent away within two years after scoring the 2000 Cup winner in Game 6 overtime after having become somewhat of a sour presence in the room. And do you know what else they had in common? Lamoriello brought them all back to the Devils, business always eclipsing personal when it involves the business of winning."

https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/islanders-zach-parise-trade-attempt-was-classic-lou-lamoriello/

 

[SI]

I'd rather stand pat offensively if the alternative is to trade Leddy for picks.

I advocate trading Bailey only IF we HAVE to shed salary and IF we get an upgrade forward via UFA.

how do you deal with the expansion draft? Do you protect Leddy then?

 

[SI]

I'd rather stand pat offensively if the alternative is to trade Leddy for picks.

I advocate trading Bailey only IF we HAVE to shed salary and IF we get an upgrade forward via UFA.

If all stays the same and somehow you get Barzal on bridge signing all 3 RFA's for 14 million and burying Ladd's contract you would the team would be @ 85 of total cap space with a 22 man roster and the same F group now minus Martin & Kuhnackl.

 

[SI]

I get all that. But my opinion, and I bet LL's and Trotz's as well, is that Leddy would be one of the last you part with.

IMO, Bailey, Clutterbuck, and Boychuk are all thought of pretty highly by Trotz as well with the A on their sweaters