Speculation: Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2018-19 - Part IX - Trade Deadline Edition

[Satan'sIsland81]

I’d prefer they invested that in Panarin. Some of it in Duche.

Just hope Lou doesn’t strike out again.

dont hold your breath

 

[BelovedIsles]

dont hold your breath

Idk. Have a good feeling that this summer will be better.

Team should be coming off of a PO berth. Trotz effect. Lou effect. Cap space. Panarin has been on record stating his interest in NYI. Lou will be motivated to build.

 

[doublechili]

Maybe we play CBJ in the 1st round and beat them before raucous crowds at NVMC.

That might come in handy come 7/1.

 

[Poulin 0n My St1ck]

I would’ve supported signing Stone at $10 mill per.

Now watch it’ll take Tavares-type money to sign Panarin, wherever he winds up (unless it’s FLA). He’s very talented, but I’m not quite sure he’s worth north of $11 mill per.

Just my two cents.

 

[Le Grec]

It’s totally fair to want to have Lou/Trotz over any single player. I mostly agree with that and I can tell you that I wouldn’t want any other person in the world coaching the Islanders other than Barry Trotz.

That said by not re-signing any of the pending Free Agents nor landing anybody via trade so far Lou has put himself in a massive hole for the summer. Can he dig himself out? Absolutely, but given how deep the hole is it’s going to require almost a perfect off-season with a lot bouncing our way in order to have just the same team next year - much less better.

I can't imagine Lou comes up empty handed this summer, wether it's signing our own guys, or others.
The real test is going to be wether he saves space for the following season for Barzal, Pulock, and Toews...

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I'm wondering what Lee's value is at the end of the season. Is he a 30 goal guy (he's on pace for 28 right now)? Does his contract demands drop if he isn't as productive this season as he was last? He's clearly showing he's incapable of scoring goals on his own, so that should drop him out of the super expensive range based off his production. Will he cling to that 40 goal season in negotiations and will another team pay him like a 40 goal scorer?

I think everyone knows that if you have teams that get pucks to the net, especially on the PP, then Lee is a likely 35+ goal scorer.

If you don't, he'll be hovering around 20-25.

He's currently playing for a team that makes VERY LITTLE use of his net-front presence.

Ironically, I felt he single-handedly could have beat Calgary. There were lots of pucks in his usual sweet spots around that net. He could have easily had two "Lee goals".

Hope he gets them tonight!

 

[Hunn]

Has any team ever lost 2 captains in consecutive seasons?

New Jersey traded Langenbrunner mid-season and lost Parise next year.

 

[Top Corner]

The only thing I can tell you is if management likes the chemistry why has none of the 4 key UFAs been signed? We are taking a huge gamble just to make playoffs and as mentioned before I can see a wildcard as the highest spot
For us with a 1st round exit if we do make it. That is still better than last year and beyond most expectations.. now everyone has these lofty goals which will bring disappointment but the teams hands were tied by being in a playoff spot at deadline. Not enough assets to push forward and you
can ‘t sell so it’s time they look to sign UFAs before season ends

 

[crasherino]

I can't imagine Lou comes up empty handed this summer, wether it's signing our own guys, or others.
The real test is going to be wether he saves space for the following season for Barzal, Pulock, and Toews...

Thing is - we could be signing our guys now. I understand completely the “evaluation year” and wanting to wait and not rushing into anything. That’s fine - I’ll defer to Lou as he obviously knows more than me. But if that ends up with us not having the guys we otherwise should (like a Frans FA situation) I will blame him.

Lee should be signed long term. At this point - and looking at the FA landscape - so should Nelson. If we ultimately sign them or find worthy replacements - great. But if we are left at the end of the dance with nothing but our dick in our hand, that’s on Lou and I’ll look back to when he didn’t even start engaging with Nelson in talks at all before the TDL as a mistake.

 

[Brunomics]

I would’ve supported signing Stone at $10 mill per.

Now watch it’ll take Tavares-type money to sign Panarin, wherever he winds up (unless it’s FLA). He’s very talented, but I’m not quite sure he’s worth north of $11 mill per.

Just my two cents.

Panarin is def worth the money. He can do it all. To me Panarin and Marner are similar and Marner is going to get over 11 million in the off season.

 

[ndgolden]

Panarin is def worth the money. He can do it all. To me Panarin and Marner are similar and Marner is going to get over 11 million in the off season.

Toronto will sign Marner, and move Nylander.

 

[doublechili]

Toronto will sign Marner, and move Nylander.

IMO, Nylander would be a potential "buy low" opportunity to fill the 2C slot long-term. I still think he's going to be great and might be better suited to the middle.

Brock has really improved this year, but he's NOT a classic playmaking, zone-entry kind of C. And with some of the wingers we have in the pipeline (Wahlstrom, Bellows) we need playmakers at C.

 

[Le Grec]

Thing is - we could be signing our guys now. I understand completely the “evaluation year” and wanting to wait and not rushing into anything. That’s fine - I’ll defer to Lou as he obviously knows more than me. But if that ends up with us not having the guys we otherwise should (like a Frans FA situation) I will blame him.

Lee should be signed long term. At this point - and looking at the FA landscape - so should Nelson. If we ultimately sign them or find worthy replacements - great. But if we are left at the end of the dance with nothing but our dick in our hand, that’s on Lou and I’ll look back to when he didn’t even start engaging with Nelson in talks at all before the TDL as a mistake.

I know we are all still shell shocked from last summer, but in all seriousness, do you think all the UFA's leave and Lou doesn't sign any of the others available?

 

[PK Cronin]

I think everyone knows that if you have teams that get pucks to the net, especially on the PP, then Lee is a likely 35+ goal scorer.

If you don't, he'll be hovering around 20-25.

He's currently playing for a team that makes VERY LITTLE use of his net-front presence.

Ironically, I felt he single-handedly could have beat Calgary. There were lots of pucks in his usual sweet spots around that net. He could have easily had two "Lee goals".

Hope he gets them tonight!

I think everyone knows that, but I'm not sure that matters in the negotiation process as much as I'd hope it does. Some self-awareness on the part of Lee and accepting what he's actually worth, based off of what he brings himself. I'm just not comfortable paying someone as a 35+ goal scorer when they're unable to score goals without a very specific situation happening. Kessel or Carter are/were pure goal scorers, guys that just come over the blue line and rip shots into the back of the net. Lee isn't that, so does he think he should be paid like those types of guys?

 

[crasherino]

I know we are all still shell shocked from last summer, but in all seriousness, do you think all the UFA's leave and Lou doesn't sign any of the others available?

Depends what you mean by "any others available". Obviously we will field a team next year. So of course we will sign someone to replace the guys we lose. But who?

I think this really revolves around Nelson as Lee will probably be signed. We haven't engaged in discussions with Nelson. Fine - that's Lou's approach. If we belatedly decide (after looking at the market) that we do in fact need to re-up Nelson (because there is no one else out there that can adequately replace him) and we ultimately lose out on him, that's on Lou. If we decide to let Lee, Eberle and Nelson go and replace them with Panarin and Hayes and Skinner, I'm a happy guy. That ain't happening though.

So, do I think we let all those guys go? Probably not. But as of now, nothing's happened yet. Besides Lee, there haven't been any discussions with the other guys. Personally, I understand that with Eberle. I'm not kicking him out the door but I let him go to July 1st, let him shop around and if team and player decide that there is mutual interest going forward (to me that means a short term deal at less than he's making now), they consider it. But for the other 3 guys, I think they should be trying to extend them. I'll defer to Lou and his approach and plan, but hopefully come August, this team is improved from what we have now, not depleted.

 

[ndgolden]

Imagine Duchene signs this summer with Nashville (no question in my mind the leading contender right now) and we lose Nelson, so then we have a trade for someone like Turris...

Would agree on Duchene, Nashville is the front runner. Isles need a #2c as priority #1 IMO.

 

[crasherino]

I think everyone knows that, but I'm not sure that matters in the negotiation process as much as I'd hope it does. Some self-awareness on the part of Lee and accepting what he's actually worth, based off of what he brings himself. I'm just not comfortable paying someone as a 35+ goal scorer when they're unable to score goals without a very specific situation happening. Kessel or Carter are/were pure goal scorers, guys that just come over the blue line and rip shots into the back of the net. Lee isn't that, so does he think he should be paid like those types of guys?

What's he ultimately worth? That seems like a fairly straightforward debate. Vegas and Stone were able to bang out a deal in 30 minutes. Here, we have 6 (or more) years of evidence to go off of. While Lee's final numbers may vary somewhat, the team should know what they're willing to pay and Lee should know what he's willing to take. We've hashed this out dozens of times on this board and its ultimately 6-7 years at $6 - $7m. Maybe we're low balling it (and that's the problem), but it seems relatively straight forward. JVR and E. Kane are the closest comparables.

We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes and they very well may have already "agreed to agree", which is great. But if that's not the case and they're still actively negotiating, that's a bit of a problem.

 

[ndgolden]

Depends what you mean by "any others available". Obviously we will field a team next year. So of course we will sign someone to replace the guys we lose. But who?

I think this really revolves around Nelson as Lee will probably be signed. We haven't engaged in discussions with Nelson. Fine - that's Lou's approach. If we belatedly decide (after looking at the market) that we do in fact need to re-up Nelson (because there is no one else out there that can adequately replace him) and we ultimately lose out on him, that's on Lou. If we decide to let Lee, Eberle and Nelson go and replace them with Panarin and Hayes and Skinner, I'm a happy guy. That ain't happening though.

So, do I think we let all those guys go? Probably not. But as of now, nothing's happened yet. Besides Lee, there haven't been any discussions with the other guys. Personally, I understand that with Eberle. I'm not kicking him out the door but I let him go to July 1st, let him shop around and if team and player decide that there is mutual interest going forward (to me that means a short term deal at less than he's making now), they consider it. But for the other 3 guys, I think they should be trying to extend them. I'll defer to Lou and his approach and plan, but hopefully come August, this team is improved from what we have now, not depleted.

I would like to see Eberle and Lee in different combinations to see how their scoring responds whether that be with Barzal or Flip. It also helps evaluate Nelson's ability as he centers other players, but that line currently can only be counted on for being defensively responsible. Our top six are providing little scoring at this point and are hardly a threat to anyone.

 

[ndgolden]

I think everyone knows that, but I'm not sure that matters in the negotiation process as much as I'd hope it does. Some self-awareness on the part of Lee and accepting what he's actually worth, based off of what he brings himself. I'm just not comfortable paying someone as a 35+ goal scorer when they're unable to score goals without a very specific situation happening. Kessel or Carter are/were pure goal scorers, guys that just come over the blue line and rip shots into the back of the net. Lee isn't that, so does he think he should be paid like those types of guys?

Last time I checked, a goal is a goal regardless how its scored. What is this specific situation happening you are talking about?

 

[Brunomics]

I could see Brett Connolly coming over in the off season. He's having a career year and is going to put up 20 goals and 45-50 points.

Be cheaper than Eberle and you could use that extra money to throw at a Duchene or Panerin.

BTW I would absolutely sign Kevin Hayes to be the 2C instead of Brock Nelson.

 

[PK Cronin]

Last time I checked, a goal is a goal regardless how its scored. What is this specific situation happening you are talking about?

He's unable to create those goals on his own, he requires someone else to throw it at the net for him to bang home rebounds or get tips. A goal is a goal, yes, but how you get them matters.

If a team signs Lee as if he's a 35-40 goal scorer, that reduces the amount of money that can be spent on getting someone else to help him get those totals. Lee's production then decreases, and now the team is paying Lee for something he's not producing because he's incapable of that production without the help.

Other goal scorers, who can create on their own, their production isn't dependent upon what's around them as much. It's wise to spend more money on them than it is to spend money on the Lee type.

 

[ndgolden]

He's unable to create those goals on his own, he requires someone else to throw it at the net for him to bang home rebounds or get tips. A goal is a goal, yes, but how you get them matters.

If a team signs Lee as if he's a 35-40 goal scorer, that reduces the amount of money that can be spent on getting someone else to help him get those totals. Lee's production then decreases, and now the team is paying Lee for something he's not producing because he's incapable of that production without the help.

Other goal scorers, who can create on their own, their production isn't dependent upon what's around them as much. It's wise to spend more money on them than it is to spend money on the Lee type.

I will take 23 guys who all I have to do is get pucks to net to score, If 1 in 62 from 29 to 27 is not producing on his own then I don't what to tell you.

 

[PWJunior]

He's unable to create those goals on his own, he requires someone else to throw it at the net for him to bang home rebounds or get tips. A goal is a goal, yes, but how you get them matters.

If a team signs Lee as if he's a 35-40 goal scorer, that reduces the amount of money that can be spent on getting someone else to help him get those totals. Lee's production then decreases, and now the team is paying Lee for something he's not producing because he's incapable of that production without the help.

Other goal scorers, who can create on their own, their production isn't dependent upon what's around them as much. It's wise to spend more money on them than it is to spend money on the Lee type.

To be fair, goal scorers who can create on their own are very rare. Most high end goal scorers need the Yin of a playmaker to match their Yang. Those that have both are superstars who make (or will make) tons of money and are simply not available.

I agree with you with about Lee and his style of play. He's our modern day Mark Parrish type.

 

[PK Cronin]

I will take 23 guys who all I have to do is get pucks to net to score, If 1 in 62 from 29 to 27 is not producing on his own then I don't what to tell you.

I'll take 23 guys who can create and score goals on their own. I didn't say Lee was a product of Nelson. How often does Lee score by carrying the puck into the offensive zone, making a move, and then shooting? He doesn't really. That makes him more of a complimentary player than the players I'm describing.

 

[PK Cronin]

To be fair, goal scorers who can create on their own are very rare. Most high end goal scorers need the Yin of a playmaker to match their Yang. Those that have both are superstars who make (or will make) tons of money and are simply not available.

I agree with you with about Lee and his style of play. He's our modern day Mark Parrish type.

Absolutely, but my concern is that Lee might want to be paid like one of those other guys because there are so few players that ever reach the 40 goal marker like he did.