Rumor: Rumors & Proposals VII: Nothing imminent; Cavalry is not coming

[Mcnotloilersfan]

i agree with what nicholson is saying he doesnt say they cant make panic trades outright, he qualifies it by saying "we just can’t panic here and make major changes unless they’re going to help us in the future.†. He clearly sees an issue with the scouting and development of players. If the scouting staff is a problem then that needs to be rectified immediatley. you need to bring in a new scouting regime and have them hit the streets (hopefully they already are). A name to be looked at as the director of pro scouting would be Craig Button. They also need to wipe away all those 60+ turds they have working for them now and replace them with a strong mix of veteran scouts and younger hungry guys with a different view point. With the technology these days they dont even need to travel as much. obviously you want to see players live but there is other options to see "more" of each player. How the oilers skipped over chase Lang in calgary who was taken in the 6th and instead took a bchl overager baffles me.

I would actually be okay with Craig Button running the scouting (though I'm sure he has his eyes on being a GM, that I don't want...)

I think he would draft logically, and I've always liked his rankings.

 

[Beerfish]

...I'd say we haven't gotten better. But worse?



The clear loss is the Smid deal and the clear win is the Perron deal. The rest are "meh" at best either way.

Perron is not a clear win, simply because people have ignored the 2nd rounder in the equation. The blues took Ivan Barbeshev who amazingly fell to them to what was our pick. He currently is lighting it up in the QMHL, perhaps the best player in that league and one of the best players in all of juniors.

It's like saying that the Penner deal was a clear win at the time, we still have nothing tangible to show for it, Klefbom has not started to contribute and this is 3 years after the actual trade.

 

[Vagabond]

I dunno, I read that Nicholson piece and came away more interested than most of you I think.

First off, he didn't say that no major changes need to be made at all. He clearly qualified it with saying that the team needs all of its processes audited, not just fire a coach or trade some players around.

“We’re going to have to look at every part of this organization — how we scout, look at players, develop players.”

“We need to get more out of those second, third, fourth-round players,”

Those are a couple of quotes that take direct shots at the amateur and pro scouting, as well as their whole development model. These sound like words that should be coming from the POHO's office, not the vice-chairman of the Oilers Entertainment Group.

Those sound like the words of someone who knows that front facing changes to the team won't matter if the underlying infrastructure (i.e. upper management) isn't dealt with beforehand. That seems like something a lot of fans here have been clamouring here for days to have done. It just won't happen until the offseason, I'm guessing.

To me, that says a couple of things.

1 - They've pretty much resigned themselves to the fact that this season is lost.

2 - The Stu MacGregor era may be coming to an end, perhaps even prior to the 2015 draft. At minimum, he is now officially under the gun to justify his job.

3 - Some parts of the org aren't entirely blind to the fact that there are things wrong with this team that a coaching change and Nail Yakupov trade will not address.

4 - The simple fact that Nicholson is bringing this statement can mean a couple of different things: Either he was pushed out to make some sort of public statement by Katz so that MacTavish and especially Lowe didn't have to do it, or he really was brought in by Katz to be his unbiased 3rd party that has been tasked with doing an entire team audit, and that includes MacTavish and Lowe...and his initial findings don't put upper management in a very good light.

I know it might be too much to hope for, but just maybe this is a situation where Katz doesn't have it in him to fire his friends, but isn't above bringing in someone else to do that dirty job for him. Nicholson isn't speaking now like someone who was just brought in to be an 'extra voice' that would work alongside Lowe as a peer...he's outright stating that certain parts of this organization haven't been good enough, and these are things that are the direct responsibility of MacT and Lowe.

Makes me wonder if this offseason could have a bloodletting the likes of which hasn't been seen around here since Sather left town. It just strikes me as odd that these are words that SHOULD be coming from Lowe, but it's Nicholson saying them.

I just listened to the interview and I have the same inclination as you. I think he's assessing the hell out of everything to make the changes he knows will 100% be the right decision. Looks like he's searching for the cause of the problem before he cleans house. Which to me is fine but what bothers me about that is; isn't it bloody obvious enough!

Who hired the GM and the scouting team? Who left this team a mess before he was 'promoted' out of the situation? The house needs to be cleaned!

I hope the only reason why he's not cleaned house yet is because Bob is actually putting his due diligence into assessing possible candidates to replace upper management! I feel he will do what's right. He seems like a very intelligent man and as you mentioned, I think Katz brought him in to audit the team from top to bottom and to eventually route out the problems that plague this organization.

I had a feeling he would; seeing as how he's a mastermind in hockey operations most of his profession career. Laforge was doing a fine job in the entertainment side of things. Katz probably didn't want it to look like he brought Bob in to step on toes at first before he comes in like a Ninja Assassin through the night to oust upper management! Lol

 

[joestevens29]

I would actually be okay with Craig Button running the scouting (though I'm sure he has his eyes on being a GM, that I don't want...)

I think he would draft logically, and I've always liked his rankings.

I guess the thing is if he comes in and does well drafting there is potential to move up and quickly in this organization.

 

[Beerfish]

I wish we could get Schenn Brothers for Ebs straight up... Edmonton might have to retain a little salary this year because of the cap situation Philly is in.

THEN *DRUMROLL* We can waive Justin Schultz and have Petry, Fayne and Schenn on the right side! Awesome!

I'd honestly put Schenn and Marincin together. I'm convinced that their skills would work well together. Marincin is more responsible and moves the puck a little better while Schenn's physicality will pressure the opposition into making mistakes and make them think twice about walking into the zone.

Imagine if we could have Nurse and Schenn playing together on a pairing? I know, you'd want to spread the rough stuff around, but it would be fun to watch the two of them bullying the opposition together.

With this trade we could send Dr. Drai down. Tell him to continue to work on strength and conditioning. Schenn plays 2nd line center in front of Arcobello and Arcobello is probably gone next year.

Luke schenn is horrible and would be extra horrible on the oilers why people want any part of this guy is totally beyond me, these are not the freaking sedins here. Brayden schenn? Sure go after him but his brother would at best be a push for any of our lousy dmen.

 

[Halibut]

4 - The simple fact that Nicholson is bringing this statement can mean a couple of different things: Either he was pushed out to make some sort of public statement by Katz so that MacTavish and especially Lowe didn't have to do it, or he really was brought in by Katz to be his unbiased 3rd party that has been tasked with doing an entire team audit, and that includes MacTavish and Lowe...and his initial findings don't put upper management in a very good light.

You had some interesting points here but I had to comment on this one.

To me when they hired Nicholson I was immediately impressed with how well spoken he was. It wasn't that long after the infamous "I know a few things about winning" speech and the rumours Klowe had offered to take a sabbatical for awhile. You think back about all his time with hockey Canada and I cant remember him ever sounding bad in front of the media. Kevin Lowe on the other hand never sounded all that professional in front of the media and Katz is afraid to speak to the media so it didnt surprise me that they got someone who was good with the media and that he is doing the speaking now.

I do think he was a back up plan in case things went south. If Lowe were to step down Katz needed someone to take over or find other qualified people. Nicholson is the perfect guy to do it. Not sure how great he is at building hockey teams, I mean building a gold medal team for hockey in Canada isnt the most challenging job out there, but he does handle the media well and has good connections in the hockey world.

 

[Digger12]

You had some interesting points here but I had to comment on this one.

To me when they hired Nicholson I was immediately impressed with how well spoken he was. It wasn't that long after the infamous "I know a few things about winning" speech and the rumours Klowe had offered to take a sabbatical for awhile. You think back about all his time with hockey Canada and I cant remember him ever sounding bad in front of the media. Kevin Lowe on the other hand never sounded all that professional in front of the media and Katz is afraid to speak to the media so it didnt surprise me that they got someone who was good with the media and that he is doing the speaking now.

I do think he was a back up plan in case things went south. If Lowe were to step down Katz needed someone to take over or find other qualified people. Nicholson is the perfect guy to do it. Not sure how great he is at building hockey teams, I mean building a gold medal team for hockey in Canada isnt the most challenging job out there, but he does handle the media well and has good connections in the hockey world.

Agreed. He's definitely more polished in that setting than Lowe, whose credibility is pretty much in tatters at this point. MacT is better w/ the media as well, makes me wonder why he wasn't sending this message since the things Nicholson talked about were things MacT is supposed to be in charge of. I suppose MacT is head down in dealing with all those deals that aren't happening, it's a big 'whatever' at this point.

I'm curious to see if Nicholson's comments will be talked about on Oilers Now today, and if so how they will be portrayed.

 

[CornKicker]

You had some interesting points here but I had to comment on this one.

To me when they hired Nicholson I was immediately impressed with how well spoken he was. It wasn't that long after the infamous "I know a few things about winning" speech and the rumours Klowe had offered to take a sabbatical for awhile. You think back about all his time with hockey Canada and I cant remember him ever sounding bad in front of the media. Kevin Lowe on the other hand never sounded all that professional in front of the media and Katz is afraid to speak to the media so it didnt surprise me that they got someone who was good with the media and that he is doing the speaking now.

I do think he was a back up plan in case things went south. If Lowe were to step down Katz needed someone to take over or find other qualified people. Nicholson is the perfect guy to do it. Not sure how great he is at building hockey teams, I mean building a gold medal team for hockey in Canada isnt the most challenging job out there, but he does handle the media well and has good connections in the hockey world.

Nicholson was the head of Hockey Canada, a very small portion of that job entailed putting together the Mens olympic team. Nicholson also say our poor performances at teh world juniors and initiated a program to revamp and emphasize player growth from a grass roots level starting at the timbits/tyke levels. offering up coaching and materials to be used by everyone invloved in minor hockey. If he has shown anything in his time with hockey canada it is identifying problems and planning and executing the gameplan to correct these issues going forward.

 

[Musashi]

Besides, rather than a short term fix like Anisimov would be, Edmonton would be much better off unloading an Eberle and getting a true 2nd line center of ongoing value, than trying to do a patch up job for the cost of a lower valued player like Perron. I mean Eberle's cap hit is $6 million, and Perron's is $3.8 million, sure those things aren't a perfect measure of a player, but .... in this case it's not a total total misrepresentation to the nth degree either.

First off, Anisimov does not have lower value than Perron. Maybe some teams would value Perron more but increasing size and center depth is always going to be much more in demand than wingers.

Also with a lot less term and cap, Perron has a lot more flexibility for teams trying to add scoring wingers. I don't think there's much of a drop off in offensive skill despite what their stats say right now but most teams can't take on that type of salary and term that comes with Eberle without sending a player back and we are in the market for a center or defenseman. The only way that type of player will be available for Eberle is someone who has a large cap hit themselves who hasn't been playing up to standards making him expendable with question marks surrounding him.

 

[workedforme]

...I'd say we haven't gotten better. But worse?

Horcoff for Larsen & 7th
Paajarvi & 2nd for Perron
Brown for 4th
Smid & Roy for Horak & Brossoit
Omark for 6th
Dubnyk for Hendricks
3rd for Scrivens
Nesbitt & Martindale for Pinnizotto & Combs
Abney & Hartikainen for Fraser
Bryzgalov for 4th
3rd & 5th for Fasth
Schultz for 5th
Hemsky for 3rd and 5th
5th for Nikitin
Gagner for Purcell

The clear loss is the Smid deal and the clear win is the Perron deal. The rest are "meh" at best either way.

I'd argue Gagner deal is a clear loss. Purcell is junk and we have a gaping hole at 2/3C that has forced us to rush a kid who clearly should have gone back down after 9 games, or play Arcobello at 2 C where he is usually outmatched . Now we're allegedly talking about moving Perron for Anisimov, who would be a stopgap for Drai/McD/Eichel. Moving Gagner with no backup plan is to me the clearest indication MacT is either no good at his job, or the plan was to tank all year.
If the answer is the former then perhaps is actually quite good at his job. Either way, if we're moving Perron I'd much prefer targeting someone like say Derrick Pouliot than a stopgap C who isn't/shouldn't be part of the teams longterm plan. I suspect after this draft we'll have 3 centers who will be around for a long time.
Hell I'd take a deal similar to Boychuk at this point, a couple extra 2nds in this draft go a lot further to future success than trying to patch the holes on the sinking ship that is the 2014-2015 season.

 

[vincent1999]

First off, Anisimov does not have lower value than Perron. Maybe some teams would value Perron more but increasing size and center depth is always going to be much more in demand than wingers.

Also with a lot less term and cap, Perron has a lot more flexibility for teams trying to add scoring wingers. I don't think there's much of a drop off in offensive skill despite what their stats say right now but most teams can't take on that type of salary and term that comes with Eberle without sending a player back and we are in the market for a center or defenseman. The only way that type of player will be available for Eberle is someone who has a large cap hit themselves who hasn't been playing up to standards making him expendable with question marks surrounding him.

what's this fascination with Anisimov???? He's a 3rd line center in Columbus (who have 14 pts this season just like the Oilers, and who in their history have absolutely NO playoff success), and he's not really BIG. Sure 6'4" is tall, but he's a lanky 6'4" in that he only tips the scale at 198 lbs. AND, if we want him, just wait until the summer cos he'll be going on sale for as Columbus tries to dump his salary cap. I mean come on he's where in their center depth pool??? like after Johansen, after Dubinsky, after Jenner, and then they have Letestu and Wennberg who both play his 15 minutes per game and do so at a much lower cap hit. So, to recap, how many teams in the league have the center depth problem that the Oilers do???? ie none. How many other teams in the league are jumping after Anisimov's $3.3 million cap hit for a 3rd line center???? I mean who else is looking at him???? Guys like Legwand, Jokinen, or Hanzal take a long time to get a UFA contract in the summer time??? And getting an Animisov is just a short time fix and one expends a real hard learned and valuable asset like Perron for him??? Please. And what if Draisaitl doesn't pan out??? Anisimov is NOT a fix that would help for any extended period of time, and for that one needs to go after a Couturier, Berglund or a Schenn. So imo, humbly, I suggest it would be best to pass on Anisimov at this time, and .... in the summer the idea can be revisited and he had be had for 10 to 30% on the dollar--- like what maybe a 3rd rd draft pick, certainly not an Oiler's 2nd rd pick, and didn't Perron cost Edmonton a 2nd rd pick AND Paarvari (who was a #10 overall a few years back)????

 

[belair]

Moving Gagner with no backup plan is to me the clearest indication MacT is either no good at his job, or the plan was to tank all year.

I'm starting to feel this way too. Lacking Gagner's skill on the 2nd line has contributed to a lack of offence from guys like Yakupov and Perron. Forget two-way hockey, we can't score goals.

Gagner got us a player we could've had for free. At this point Gagner could've played out till next trade deadline and we would've been in the same, if not a better spot.

It isn't shocking that our management is tied to one of the biggest headscratching trades in recent memory.

 

[McShogun99]

You're selling Anisimov short. He's actually quite good defensively and had a good wrist shot. Perron is definitely worth more, Columbus should be adding if that trade were to happen.

 

[vincent1999]

I'd argue Gagner deal is a clear loss. Purcell is junk and we have a gaping hole at 2/3C that has forced us to rush a kid who clearly should have gone back down after 9 games, or play Arcobello at 2 C where he is usually outmatched . Now we're allegedly talking about moving Perron for Anisimov, who would be a stopgap for Drai/McD/Eichel. Moving Gagner with no backup plan is to me the clearest indication MacT is either no good at his job, or the plan was to tank all year.
If the answer is the former then perhaps is actually quite good at his job. Either way, if we're moving Perron I'd much prefer targeting someone like say Derrick Pouliot than a stopgap C who isn't/shouldn't be part of the teams longterm plan. I suspect after this draft we'll have 3 centers who will be around for a long time.
Hell I'd take a deal similar to Boychuk at this point, a couple extra 2nds in this draft go a lot further to future success than trying to patch the holes on the sinking ship that is the 2014-2015 season.

I agree all this talk about a short term fix Anisimov is folly??? And as I have said elsewhere, by this summer Columbus is going to be desperate to get rid of him and he's not going to cost anything more than like a 3rd rd draft pick. So, this leaky Oiler ship needs to get into the dry dock of summer rather than try to fix a leaky hole with some gum. So in the meantime let's just bail out the water with a pail. And as a 2nd line winger, Perron is NOT a problem for the Oilers, cap friendly hit, a quality player who brings a lot intangibles to the table.
Besides, in terms of centerman, what the Oilers need is THE RIGHT C that can be the saviour for Yakupov's game .... anything else is a BIG MISTAKE

 

[guymez]

Agreed. He's definitely more polished in that setting than Lowe, whose credibility is pretty much in tatters at this point. MacT is better w/ the media as well, makes me wonder why he wasn't sending this message since the things Nicholson talked about were things MacT is supposed to be in charge of. I suppose MacT is head down in dealing with all those deals that aren't happening, it's a big 'whatever' at this point.

I'm curious to see if Nicholson's comments will be talked about on Oilers Now today, and if so how they will be portrayed.

I would be very surprised if this was discussed on Oilers Now.

For those who haven't heard it check out the link below. The Nicholson interview is part of the Nov 26th podcast 27 minutes into the show.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/

 

[vincent1999]

You're selling Anisimov short. He's actually quite good defensively and had a good wrist shot. Perron is definitely worth more, Columbus should be adding if that trade were to happen.

But is he the PERFECT C to Yakupov's game????? Yak needs to be Edmonton's 2nd line RW .... there is just too much invested in him (ie a #1 overall selection) to NOT get a decent return, especially since the Oilers have squandered so many early 2nd round picks in the last 3 or 4 years (like Moroz, Musil, and Pitlick) ---- just look at the other quality players that were picked in the next couple of spots after these duds-- 2010 Merrill, Faulk, Smith-Pelly, Toffoli; 2011 Rattie, Jurco, Jenner, Gibson, Jaskin, Nieto; 2012 Collberg?, Pokka, Severson

 

[Paralyzer008]

Would Philly do Schultz + Yakimov for Couturier?

Or just Schultz?

 

[Roof Daddy]

I do think he was a back up plan in case things went south. If Lowe were to step down Katz needed someone to take over or find other qualified people. Nicholson is the perfect guy to do it. Not sure how great he is at building hockey teams, I mean building a gold medal team for hockey in Canada isnt the most challenging job out there, but he does handle the media well and has good connections in the hockey world.

I think the key here is, it's not Nicholson's job to build the team, but his job to find the people to build the team. I completely agree that his connections in the hockey world are the greatest resource he brings, that, and an understanding of his job. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy whose going to meddle with the GM's decisions just so he can have his fingerprints on the team. He had to find someone new to run Team Canada heading into the 2014 Olympics, played on international ice surface where we haven't faired as well. He knew he'd need to find a fresh thinker, someone who had experience in that situation (playing internationally) and might figure out where we've erred in the past. Steve Yzerman didn't have the extensive resume/experience of other GM's, but he was undoubtedly the right choice. He was put in a tough situation with MSL, but came out of it looking like gold (literally).

Nicholson has a good idea of what he wants to do, which is why he stressed taking time in his assessment. I have no doubt Babcock is in the back of his mind.

 

[Oilers Apologist]

Would Philly do Schultz + Yakimov for Couturier?

Or just Schultz?

no...

 

[Hugo McStiglitz]

Would Philly do Schultz + Yakimov for Couturier?

Or just Schultz?

This isn't Holmgren running the show anymore.

 

[vincent1999]

I'm starting to feel this way too. Lacking Gagner's skill on the 2nd line has contributed to a lack of offence from guys like Yakupov and Perron. Forget two-way hockey, we can't score goals.

Gagner got us a player we could've had for free. At this point Gagner could've played out till next trade deadline and we would've been in the same, if not a better spot.

It isn't shocking that our management is tied to one of the biggest headscratching trades in recent memory.

yep, the back up plan to dump Gagner for a free player Purcell has back fired. The Oilers as constituted today are worse off than they would be with Gagner in the line up. Arcobello isn't skilled enough to score, and he's smaller?? than Gagner, and secondary scoring has suffered, and truth be told, maybe just maybe some of the defensive liabilities of a "Gagner" is attributable to the god awful defensive pairings that the Oiler's are plagued with. I mean, for instance, Yak is a minus 1 cos Schultz decides to go for a change and leave the whole middle of the ice open for a hail mary breakaway to Sequin the other night. And when Petry fuddles the puck off the back of the net and Ferrence gets stick on backwards and fumbles the puck to a Dallas forward and bingo bango Sequin pots a laser from the slot ... like whats a forward to do???

 

[McJadeddog]

Would Philly do Schultz + Yakimov for Couturier?

Or just Schultz?

philly might not do schultz + yakUPOV for couturier, let alone yakIMOV

schultz is hot garbage, yakupov is all about future potential... couturier is one of phillys best Cs and is a very reliable 2-way player

 

[backhandsauce]

Everyone wants to move Eberle for B.Schenn. I don't think thats a good idea.

Schenn and Eberle had some good chemistry at the WJC together. If we could get Schenn for Perron I would like to see Schenn and Eberle paired up.

Run Hall-RNH and Schenn-Eberle on the 1st two lines.

Hall-RNH-Yak
?-Schenn-Eberle

edit* Nick Foligno and Glencross are UFA's. Both would be a solid addition for the 2 LW spot.

 

[nhlisajoke]

Everyone wants to move Eberle for B.Schenn. I don't think thats a good idea.

Schenn and Eberle had some good chemistry at the WJC together. If we could get Schenn for Perron I would like to see Schenn and Eberle paired up.

Run Hall-RNH and Schenn-Eberle on the 1st two lines.

Hall-RNH-Yak
?-Schenn-Eberle

edit* Nick Foligno and Glencross are UFA's. Both would be a solid addition for the 2 LW spot.

even Pouliot wouldnt look that bad there

 

[BowDangles]

Everyone wants to move Eberle for B.Schenn. I don't think thats a good idea.

Schenn and Eberle had some good chemistry at the WJC together. If we could get Schenn for Perron I would like to see Schenn and Eberle paired up.

Run Hall-RNH and Schenn-Eberle on the 1st two lines.

Hall-RNH-Yak
?-Schenn-Eberle

edit* Nick Foligno and Glencross are UFA's. Both would be a solid addition for the 2 LW spot.

I would like to see a J Schultz + Perron + 2nd for B Schenn + Coburn deal go down. But if that was too big or too lopsided I would trying offering Jschultz + pick/prospect for B Schenn