Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Rainman Edition "I'm an Excellent Driver" Read OP and Watch Video For Educational Purposes

[Bryanbryoil]

So here's the thing we all know that things are slow and that right now we await the McLeod and Bouchard contracts to see if there are any additional moves to come. So we wait and wait and wait some more which quite frankly sucks as a fan. However beating on the same dead horses over and over and over and over does nothing but stir the pot and kick the hornets nest. We aren't trading Nurse, we aren't trading Bouchard and odds are that we probably aren't trading McLeod either. We can repeat thoughts about trading those guys like Rainman talking about how he's an excellent driver 890,000 times or we could state it a few times and then move onto something else. The shitty thing is that almost every day we are seeing useful depth guys signing elsewhere on the cheap so the pool to round out our team via UFA is getting about as shallow as the genepool in Deliverance. Bottom line is that if you piss off a few people they might be the ones with the issue. If you piss off 1/2 the people then maybe you're just not everybody's cup of tea. If you are pissing off just about everyone then the problem is probably you. If I see a shit ton of the same kind of posts in a thread by a poster and it has everyone ready to pull their hair out then thread bans will be coming and possibly a warning for thread derailing or trolling. If you want to talk about trading Nurse you'd be better off trying to convince HFOil collectively that Bigfoot is real.

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[GOilers88]

Boobies make me smile.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

We can't afford to sign any useful depth players because of the stuff we are no longer allowed to discuss.

Mike Comrie once said "it's like communism there".

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

So I’m watching 3 movies tonight.

Just watched BlackBerry. (Really good btw)
Next up is The Greatest Beer Run Ever.
The last one will now have to be Rain Man.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

If they can get both rfa’s done for 5.5 and sign another fwd at 825k or less they could run 21 man roster with 12F and 7D and still have 832K in cap space to either run a 22 man roster or more likely accrue cap space, especially with our ability to go 11-7.

There’s some depth guys that would have been nice adds but they gotta want to come here. For a lot of those guys there are more favourable situations on less deep teams instead of here where they risk getting caught in a numbers game in the pb or even the ahl given the tight cap.

Of the remaining free agents, Tatar might be interesting if he’d sign for less then 1M. Pius Suter on 800K or less, Nosek or Grant on league min.

 

[Arpeggio]

That last thread was painful lol.

So assuming the Oil get Bouchard and McLeod signed at a number that allows them to bring in one more contract, who is everyone hoping for? I'm not a big fan of Toews, but that seems to be the obvious target if he's willing to play here. There's some interesting names out there for PTOs. I could see Sam Gagner coming to training camp if they don't sign anyone else. Haven't heard what Phil Kessel is planning on doing.

I'm a big proponent of bringing in guys with skill just on the off chance that one of them clicks with McDavid or Draisaitl, because you might find someone who can be productive on the wing with those guys, which allows you to push someone else down the lineup, resulting in a deeper team. Using Kessel as an example (keep in mind I haven't watched him in years), there's a chance that he still knows where to go on the ice, and has the shot to capitalize on chances. Maybe you can hide him in the top six, and that allows you to run a RNH - Hyman third line. I think there's a few guys out there that could extend their careers as serviceable players playing on a line with McDrai, and not hurt the team.

I dunno, just a thought. I'd bring in a few guys on PTOs and give them a couple preseason games with the big guys, just to see.

 

[McShogun99]

That last thread was painful lol.

So assuming the Oil get Bouchard and McLeod signed at a number that allows them to bring in one more contract, who is everyone hoping for? I'm not a big fan of Toews, but that seems to be the obvious target if he's willing to play here. There's some interesting names out there for PTOs. I could see Sam Gagner coming to training camp if they don't sign anyone else. Haven't heard what Phil Kessel is planning on doing.

I'm a big proponent of bringing in guys with skill just on the off chance that one of them clicks with McDavid or Draisaitl, because you might find someone who can be productive on the wing with those guys, which allows you to push someone else down the lineup, resulting in a deeper team. Using Kessel as an example (keep in mind I haven't watched him in years), there's a chance that he still knows where to go on the ice, and has the shot to capitalize on chances. Maybe you can hide him in the top six, and that allows you to run a RNH - Hyman third line. I think there's a few guys out there that could extend their careers as serviceable players playing on a line with McDrai, and not hurt the team.

I dunno, just a thought. I'd bring in a few guys on PTOs and give them a couple preseason games with the big guys, just to see.

RNH-Hyman play well together. I'd rather see us split our top 6 into pairs and try to run 3 balanced scoring lines. Mcdavid-Brown, Kane-Draisaitl, RNH-Hyman, Mcleod-Ryan. Then just plug Holloway, Foegele, Janmark and Pederson/Lavoie/??? onto different lines.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

So I’m watching 3 movies tonight.

Just watched BlackBerry. (Really good btw)
Next up is The Greatest Beer Run Ever.
The last one will now have to be Rain Man.

Strange Brew?

 

[Mr Kot]

wrong thread

 

[GOilers88]

I think Hyman - Nuge - Brown would be killer.

I'm not a fan of running McDrai, but those two hounds flanking Nuge would be sweet.

 

[FunkyChicken]

Kulak is likely the most available of players that can net a positive return. He's too good for the 14 minutes that Nurse and Ekholm are going to leave him. Those minutes can be eaten up by a league minimum salary, like Nemeth or Edler or even a Broberg.
Much greater need at RD, a guy like Dumba would be perfect but don't think he's going to be close to the $2.75M that Kulak makes. Probably have to also move Foegole to make the $ work. Ceci could move the the 3rd pairing and baby sit Broberg.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Strange Brew?

New movie on Apple TV. True story about a guy who brought beers to his friends in Vietnam during the war. Just finished, pretty good movie.

I’ll watch Rain Man tomorrow but now it’s time to hit the sack and dream of future Oiler cup wins.

 

[duul]

Considering the comparables now, I find it difficult to believe Mcleod will be awared less than 2 million in arb. Can we try and find some comparables? From this offseason we are seeing Cates and Newhook as somewhat realistic comps.

Cates 2.625 x 2
Newhook 2.9 x 4

Mcleod 0.4 ppg
Cates 0.46 ppg
Newhook 0.36 ppg

We can look at the Newhook deal being slightly high due to the 4 years of term. However, given this information, how can we expect Mcleod to come in significantly cheaper? Due to being injured and putting up a few less points than Newhook? Is that going to save us one million on the cap? I hardly doubt it.

If I had to guess, Mcleod will be awared 2.1-2.2 at the low end. How does that impact what we do going forward? Is it something we can afford at the moment? Bouchard is the first priority of course. Do we have to trade Mcleod at that point? Pay for a team to take Foegele or Kulak? What happens?

edit: Mcleod took his pay cut last year, there's no shot that happens again. I have no issue with him getting the price he will get in arb, but it seems like it will be a cost that makes things way more complicated than they already are.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Considering the comparables now, I find it difficult to believe Mcleod will be awared less than 2 million in arb. Can we try and find some comparables? From this offseason we are seeing Cates and Newhook as somewhat realistic comps.

Cates 2.625 x 2
Newhook 2.9 x 4

Mcleod 0.4 ppg
Cates 0.46 ppg
Newhook 0.36 ppg

We can look at the Newhook deal being slightly high due to the 4 years of term. However, given this information, how can we expect Mcleod to come in significantly cheaper? Due to being injured and putting up a few less points than Newhook? Is that going to save us one million on the cap? I hardly doubt it.

If I had to guess, Mcleod will be awared 2.1-2.2 at the low end. How does that impact what we do going forward? Is it something we can afford at the moment? Bouchard is the first priority of course. Do we have to trade Mcleod at that point? Pay for a team to take Foegele or Kulak? What happens?

edit: Mcleod took his pay cut last year, there's no shot that happens again. I have no issue with him getting the price he will get in arb, but it seems like it will be a cost that makes things way more complicated than they already are.

Considering the comparables now, I find it difficult to believe Mcleod will be awared less than 2 million in arb. Can we try and find some comparables? From this offseason we are seeing Cates and Newhook as somewhat realistic comps.

Cates 2.625 x 2
Newhook 2.9 x 4

Mcleod 0.4 ppg
Cates 0.46 ppg
Newhook 0.36 ppg

We can look at the Newhook deal being slightly high due to the 4 years of term. However, given this information, how can we expect Mcleod to come in significantly cheaper? Due to being injured and putting up a few less points than Newhook? Is that going to save us one million on the cap? I hardly doubt it.

If I had to guess, Mcleod will be awared 2.1-2.2 at the low end. How does that impact what we do going forward? Is it something we can afford at the moment? Bouchard is the first priority of course. Do we have to trade Mcleod at that point? Pay for a team to take Foegele or Kulak? What happens?

edit: Mcleod took his pay cut last year, there's no shot that happens again. I have no issue with him getting the price he will get in arb, but it seems like it will be a cost that makes things way more complicated than they already are.

They’ll have Mcleod signed before arbitration, my guess is another 1 year deal at around 1.75 but if you want an idea why don’t you look at an actual arbitration award. Jakob Trenin was awarded 3.4 over 2 years last August coming off a 17 goal 24 pt season.

 

[duul]

They’ll have Mcleod signed before arbitration, my guess is another 1 year deal at around 1.75 but if you want an idea why don’t you look at an actual arbitration award. Jakob Trenin was awarded 3.4 over 2 years last August coming off a 17 goal 24 pt season.

Fair enough. I guess it was the only one from last year. Let's look a couple more years back to get a bigger picture. Gonna go over every forward who had an arbitration verdict over the last few years. The award and the ppg the season prior of which the arbitrator is working off of presumably.

Trenin awarded 1.7 x 2 -- 0.3 ppg
Bertuzzi awarded 3.5 x 1 -- 0.67 ppg
Copp awarded 2.28 x 2 -- 0.36 ppg
Grimaldi awarded 1 x 1 -- 0.24 ppg
Rodrigues awarded 1 x 2 -- 0.39 ppg

As we can see, Trenin put up a significanty less ppg than any of Cates, Newhook, and Mcleod and still got 1.7, this being as a considerably older player as well who can not take advantage of a factor of potential like some of the younger guys.

I don't see how an arbiter would award Mcleod less than 1.7, and after taking a sweetheart deal for us last year so we could fit into the cap, I can not fathom why he would sign for anything below 2. It makes zero sense for the player to sign here for 1.7 as the arbiter will very likely give him more, especially when considering comparables that were signed in this offseason. Mcleod owes us no favours, he did his part last year.

 

[Fourier]

So I’m watching 3 movies tonight.

Just watched BlackBerry. (Really good btw)
Next up is The Greatest Beer Run Ever.
The last one will now have to be Rain Man.

I really want to see the BlackBerry movie. I have known lots of people involved in the company at all levels including a casual acquaintance with Mike Lazaridis who is a very interesting character. From what I gather the movie has little to do with what actually happened but it is suppose to be very entertaining nonetheless.

 

[Fourier]

Fair enough. I guess it was the only one from last year. Let's look a couple more years back to get a bigger picture. Gonna go over every forward who had an arbitration verdict over the last few years. The award and the ppg the season prior of which the arbitrator is working off of presumably.

Trenin awarded 1.7 x 2 -- 0.3 ppg
Bertuzzi awarded 3.5 x 1 -- 0.67 ppg
Copp awarded 2.28 x 2 -- 0.36 ppg
Grimaldi awarded 1 x 1 -- 0.24 ppg
Rodrigues awarded 1 x 2 -- 0.39 ppg

As we can see, Trenin put up a significanty less ppg than any of Cates, Newhook, and Mcleod and still got 1.7, this being as a considerably older player as well who can not take advantage of a factor of potential like some of the younger guys.

I don't see how an arbiter would award Mcleod less than 1.7, and after taking a sweetheart deal for us last year so we could fit into the cap, I can not fathom why he would sign for anything below 2. It makes zero sense for the player to sign here for 1.7 as the arbiter will very likely give him more, especially when considering comparables that were signed in this offseason. Mcleod owes us no favours, he did his part last year.

I actually agree that McLeod is probably getting $2M+ in arbitration if it goes that far. I think Holland has to be brutally honest with McLeod. If he wants to be part of the team going forward there is ceiling that he can take over the next two years.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I actually agree that McLeod is probably getting $2M+ in arbitration if it goes that far. I think Holland has to be brutally honest with McLeod. If he wants to be part of the team going forward there is ceiling that he can take over the next two years.

It's why I suggest 3x $1.85M It's still a reasonable amount and lets him be a UFA as soon as the contract is finished if he thinks he's due a big pay increase.

 

[brentashton]

I actually agree that McLeod is probably getting $2M+ in arbitration if it goes that far. I think Holland has to be brutally honest with McLeod. If he wants to be part of the team going forward there is ceiling that he can take over the next two years.

Do you know how arbitration determines if the award is a one or multi (2) year deal? Each side comes in with a proposal but I understand the arbiter can determine any award in between, doesn’t have to choose one or the other. I guess if one side extends an offer for 1 year and the other side offers a 2 deal, then I have my answer…can you confirm?

 

[Fourier]

Do you know how arbitration determines if the award is a one or multi (2) year deal? Each side comes in with a proposal but I understand the arbiter can determine any award in between, doesn’t have to choose one or the other. I guess if one side extends an offer for 1 year and the other side offers a 2 deal, then I have my answer…can you confirm?

If it is player initiated arbitration, as is the case here, it is the team's choice. The choice happens after the decision is made so it is not part of the arbitrators consideration.

It's why I suggest 3x $1.85M It's still a reasonable amount and lets him be a UFA as soon as the contract is finished if he thinks he's due a big pay increase.

This might work for the Oilers if they expect McLeod to continue to improve. But if he is passed by some of their younger guys he may still be moved.

MY guess is that in a rising cap environment if he simply stays where he is development-wise you could move that contract pretty easily.

 

[duul]

I actually agree that McLeod is probably getting $2M+ in arbitration if it goes that far. I think Holland has to be brutally honest with McLeod. If he wants to be part of the team going forward there is ceiling that he can take over the next two years.

If it goes to arbitration aren't we on the hook for whatever is offered? Meaning he would need to be moved before the ruling? Or traded after? Not sure how that works but I can't imagine we're able to keep Mcleod here for anything over 1.7 which seems to be an impossibility.

It leads me to wonder, if we do lose Mcleod and need to bring a guy in who is league minimum, or you know, let a guy like Holloway play C and bring in a Caggiula type to replace him on the wing...what kind of roster we are going into the season with compared to last. It's concerning to say the least if we do start the year without Yamo, Kostin, Bjugstad, and Mcleod. Will need to see what else transpires before start of the season.

edit: basically what I'm asking is, how do we find a way to address the problems on this roster given the cap hell Holland has put the club in? It seems like a near impossibility that we'll even be able to field a full roster that is in an undeniably worse spot than it was last year. This is not meant to be a doom & gloom post, rather, wondering how we are going to address the multiple areas of need when we're in this position. Treading water seems like an impossible ask.

 

[brentashton]

If it is player initiated arbitration, as is the case here, it is the team's choice. The choice happens after the decision is made so it is not part of the arbitrators consideration.


This might work for the Oilers if they expect McLeod to continue to improve. But if he is passed by some of their younger guys he may still be moved.

MY guess is that in a rising cap environment if he simply stays where he is development-wise you could move that contract pretty easily.

Thanks.

 

[Canovin]

Drai has been hanging out with Larsson on vacation via his instagram. Recruiting Larsson?

 

[duul]

Drai has been hanging out with Larsson on vacation via his instagram. Recruiting Larsson?

Larsson chose to get out of here and went on to have two career years in a row. He's living the dream out in Washington. Good for him, it's a beautiful place.

 

[Canovin]

Larsson chose to get out of here and went on to have two career years in a row. He's living the dream out in Washington. Good for him, it's a beautiful place.

Maybe Larsson chose to take a 2 years vacation to Washington and now he's ready to win a cup with the Oilers?