Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | '22-23 Training Camp Edition

[Jimmi McJenkins]

How about no

So you don't make the trade or it doesn't provide flexibility?

 

[La Bamba]

Hey the Cap experts, would a deal like this give the Oilers more flexibility?

To BUF: Foegele, Mike Smith, Lavoie and a 2023 3rd

To EDM: Ben Bishop

if this move takes Foegele off the books, it's a good deal. Lavoie is trending towards amounting to nothing and a 3rd is an okay price to pay for cap flexibility

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

if this move takes Foegele off the books, it's a good deal. Lavoie is trending towards amounting to nothing and a 3rd is an okay price to pay for cap flexibility

This was my thought, plus it keeps the cap hit the same for Sabres for their floor.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

This was my thought, plus it keeps the cap hit the same for Sabres for their floor.

I don’t think they can make that trade.

You have to be able to absorb his cap hit before you can LTIR bishop.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I don’t think they can make that trade.

You have to be able to absorb his cap hit before you can LTIR bishop.

They should be able to, Smith and Foegele's cap match Bishops.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

They should be able to, Smith and Foegele's cap match Bishops.

But smith is on LTIR right now.

So it would essentially be 2.75 out and only bishops coming back before we could put him back on LTIR

 

[TheNumber4]

Waiting for the mystery upgrade player that will be available and make our D better…

Its not Chychrun apparently, but now Hague and Sanheim are both re-upping with their clubs. How many more LD are even out there?

The Mystery Box reveals….. Ryan Murray.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

But smith is on LTIR right now.

So it would essentially be 2.75 out and only bishops coming back before we could put him back on LTIR

That's fair. Hmm, trying to think outside the box for some flexibility.

 

[Oilhawks]

Bob with some big praise for JP

Also said Foegele will be in Saturday and Yamamoto “should be”

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Bob with some big praise for JP

Also said Foegele will be in Saturday and Yamamoto “should be”

JP had a good game. Wish he buried one.

 

[Fourier]

Hey the Cap experts, would a deal like this give the Oilers more flexibility?

To BUF: Foegele, Mike Smith, Lavoie and a 2023 3rd

To EDM: Ben Bishop

Form a practical perspective this is

Foegele, Lavoie and a 3rd for future considerations, ie nothing. You gain the flexibility of Foegele's cap space.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Form a practical perspective this is

Foegele, Lavoie and a 3rd for future considerations, ie nothing. You gain the flexibility of Foegele's cap space.

That's what I was worried was the case, but thank you. Just looking at the margins the Oilers are working with, they'll have to do something, sooner or later, imo.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

According to Puck IQ Chychrun has consistently had one of the lower percentages of time on the ice vs elite competition on the team. 5th in 2019-2020 at 31.8%, Second in 2020-2021 but only 22.7% and 4th last year at 31.0% though the on-ice results are good wrt GF% the SV% was .966 in 2020-2021 for example, which is insanely high. I'm not saying this is definitive, but it does somewhat contradict this assessment.

I would be interested to see the stats you are speaking of as the above is pretty sparse to make any significant conclusions about the player.

I think what we both agree on is that he is not worth the current asking price.

You can't really just look at relative rank within team you also gotta look at how close they are to their teammates in terms of QoC. 2019-20 for instance he's below a number of dudes but not too far off from the likes of Hjarlmarsson/OEL, whereas their bottom pairing guys are like turbo mega sheltered. Basically 4 clear top 4 guys who share top 6 matchups and the rest are bums who perma play vs bottom 6. Compared to us last year where it was a clear top 2 guys getting absolutely brutal competition and effectively everyone else slots into two sheltered bottom pairings that drag Nurse/Ceci down and make their job extraordinarily difficult (some of whom like Keith/Broberg/Niemelainen were getting gapped by said bottom 6 forwards anyway). Chychrun's QoC in 2021-22 is definitely a lot lower than usual but again, closer to the top 4 guys than the bottom pair guys. We don't need someone to take on Darnell Nurse level matchups, we just need someone who can play a bit vs top 6s, relieve some pressure off Nurse. Getting a real top 4 dman instead of taking on the Duncan Keith cap dump will allow Nurse to play much easier peak Pronger/Chara/Stevens level deployment instead of 2020-22 Darnell Nurse level deployment (yes I'm taking another cheapshot at Ken Holland). Chychrun can do that and I'd be all for bringing him in if all it costs is like Yams+Tullio+1st or something, but from the sounds of it, it's gonna a lot more than that.

 

[LTIR]

Waiting for the mystery upgrade player that will be available and make our D better…

Its not Chychrun apparently, but now Hague and Sanheim are both re-upping with their clubs. How many more LD are even out there?

LDs are dime a dozen... We just need another Kulak or Chiarot'ish Dman

 

[McAsuno]

 

[5 14 6 1]

Can we trade his contract for Nurse's?

 

[smokersarejokers]

Waiting for the mystery upgrade player that will be available and make our D better…

Its not Chychrun apparently, but now Hague and Sanheim are both re-upping with their clubs. How many more LD are even out there?

I like Carson Soucy.

 

[Oilhawks]

I like Carson Soucy.

Me too. And with what Bob was saying the other day (I think it was after a preseason game), it sounds like they will make a move for him in season, I imagine especially if Broberg doesn't steal a spot by Christmas.

 

[Fourier]

You can't really just look at relative rank within team you also gotta look at how close they are to their teammates in terms of QoC. 2019-20 for instance he's below a number of dudes but not too far off from the likes of Hjarlmarsson/OEL, whereas their bottom pairing guys are like turbo mega sheltered. Basically 4 clear top 4 guys who share top 6 matchups and the rest are bums who perma play vs bottom 6. Compared to us last year where it was a clear top 2 guys getting absolutely brutal competition and effectively everyone else slots into two sheltered bottom pairings that drag Nurse/Ceci down and make their job extraordinarily difficult (some of whom like Keith/Broberg/Niemelainen were getting gapped by said bottom 6 forwards anyway). Chychrun's QoC in 2021-22 is definitely a lot lower than usual but again, closer to the top 4 guys than the bottom pair guys. We don't need someone to take on Darnell Nurse level matchups, we just need someone who can play a bit vs top 6s, relieve some pressure off Nurse. Getting a real top 4 dman instead of taking on the Duncan Keith cap dump will allow Nurse to play much easier peak Pronger/Chara/Stevens level deployment instead of 2020-22 Darnell Nurse level deployment (yes I'm taking another cheapshot at Ken Holland). Chychrun can do that and I'd be all for bringing him in if all it costs is like Yams+Tullio+1st or something, but from the sounds of it, it's gonna a lot more than that.

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I understand your point. But relative numbers and absolute numbers tell you different things. Relative numbers in this case tell me that Chychrun has not separated himself from his teammates. Absolute numbers tell me that his assignment was not exactly taxing. It is not clear at all to me either statistically or by the eye test that he would be in a position to take a lot of the load off of Nurse. Is he really that much better defensively than someone like Kulak for example? To be worth anywhere close to the value Arizona is looking for he really should be much closer to Nurse than he seems to be. I get that he has a good contract. But that is temporary. His deal ends with a $7M salary and I suspect that he will be looking for more.

I know you are not arguing that he is worth the asking price. But it's hard to separate that from the player. The name Soucy has come up multiple times here. That is a guy I think could take some of Nurse's load and do so at a fraction of the price in assets and on the cap.

 

[Magnum23]

Wow that Sanheim deal tells us a lot. I guess Soucy it is, hopefully Seattle sucks fast this year so we can get him by January

 

[Jumptheshark]

Hey the Cap experts, would a deal like this give the Oilers more flexibility?

To BUF: Foegele, Mike Smith, Lavoie and a 2023 3rd

To EDM: Ben Bishop

Not really

But moving Foegele, Lavoie and a 3rd for nothing is something that would free up the money

Wow that Sanheim deal tells us a lot. I guess Soucy it is, hopefully Seattle sucks fast this year so we can get him by January

Soucy has only one year left til he get that new contract and my guess is Seattle--if they move him--will ask a lot for him

So you don't make the trade or it doesn't provide flexibility?

moving Foegele creates the flexibility--not adding Bishop

 

[Oilhawks]

Not really

But moving Foegele, Lavoie and a 3rd for nothing is something that would free up the money


Soucy has only one year left til he get that new contract and my guess is Seattle--if they move him--will ask a lot for him


moving Foegele creates the flexibility--not adding Bishop

They can ask for whatever they want, but the rumour is they considered dealing him last TDL. He is a rental, and not a particularly high profile one, so they'll get what they get.

 

[McSuper]

Chychrun is not a full offensive dman. He's put up above average defensive metrics since basically his rookie year (including last season, he graded out very well defensively in the 2nd half after that disastrous start) and does so playing against pretty difficult competition with absolute dogwater teammates. I wouldn't pay the lofty asking price rumored for him but lets not pretend he's Tyson Barrie.

True he will never put up the numbers Barrie does. Plus as often as he is injured his fragile body wouldn't hold up in the playoffs.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Can we trade his contract for Nurse's?

Aren’t even in the same realm player wise.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I understand your point. But relative numbers and absolute numbers tell you different things. Relative numbers in this case tell me that Chychrun has not separated himself from his teammates. Absolute numbers tell me that his assignment was not exactly taxing. It is not clear at all to me either statistically or by the eye test that he would be in a position to take a lot of the load off of Nurse. Is he really that much better defensively than someone like Kulak for example? To be worth anywhere close to the value Arizona is looking for he really should be much closer to Nurse than he seems to be. I get that he has a good contract. But that is temporary. His deal ends with a $7M salary and I suspect that he will be looking for more.

I know you are not arguing that he is worth the asking price. But it's hard to separate that from the player. The name Soucy has come up multiple times here. That is a guy I think could take some of Nurse's load and do so at a fraction of the price in assets and on the cap.

I mean relative and absolute numbers wise his 2020-21 alone is higher than what any non Nurse/Murray player have ever done in their entire careers. He's definitely far more likely to take that load off Nurse than Kulak whose never in his entire career not played piss easy competition (which to his credit he excels at). I agree 100% about not targeting him though. Just too costly trade value wise for a player that's not impactful enough to warrant it.

I'm actually of the opinion our best chance of getting that additional high leverage defenseman is actually a near full health Ryan Murray. He's been that guy for years just not the last two b/c he's seemingly incapable of playing even a half season.