Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: We Need HELP!

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KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,625
31,716
Calgary
Nothing I say will suddenly convince you that Ken Holland hasn't completely failed in his task 40 games into a 5 year contract. But I'll state my opinion once more.

For 15 years this organization has had a terrible staff dedicated to identifying and developing real NHL talent. Nobody was ever removed when new bodies were brought in to right the ship and as a result this franchise has failed to draft and develop any actual talent outside of the first round, barring a very few oddities. That's why the team is consistently bad year after year. Not because they won't go out and snatch up all the guys who happen to have decent, or bounce back starts to the season. You can't build anything on hindsight. It's the same reason Hall and Eberle never had any success here, the place has been devoid of anything resembling NHL depth for as long as I can remember. Sustained depth and a constant pipeline of good talent that is properly nurtured is not built through trades. That's why good teams are consistently good, and why when they do have downturns it isn't spread across a handful of seasons. That's why Edmonton swims in futility for almost two decades.

It's extremely unfortunate that Ken Holland arrived 4 years after McDavid had to suffer under PC & Company, but best player in the world or not the only way this franchise ever becomes a legitimate, sustainable success is if they do overhaul their drafting and development. Mcuh to the chagrin of some this means sticking relatively to the plan and laying his own groundwork in the first season or two. This is something I believe Ken Holland knows a thing or two about, and I don't really care if some folks think he's just a stupid dinosaur that doesn't understand the game anymore. He's one of the most well respected hockey minds currently in the game with the connections that go along with it. He's the first one to actually remove pieces of the old regime and fill them with his own. He picked his own coach who is known for getting more out of rosters not built of much. He took a couple of swings at free agents. Whiffes on some, hit on a couple as minor upgrades, and came short on others. With almost no cap space, and a decent chunk opening up after this season he was straight forward about his approach and plan which was to go with the few tweaks he did make and see where everything wound up at the halfway mark. Despite the sky is falling screams of impending doom, this team is not even close to being eliminated from wild card contention.

Knowing all this, I disagree with the notion that he has somehow failed in his task of righting a ship that's been rotting at the bottom of the ocean for 15 years because after the 40 game mark the team is 20-17-4 and in the thick of not only their own division but the wildcard as well. Exactly where they should have been heading into this season.

Edit: Holy ****in ramble. I apologize :D
Is Kevin Lowe still employed by the Oilers? For that matter how many older buggers are still employed by this team? I heard all this jazz about how Nicholson was the most respected man in hockey. As it turns out he’s just another boob in an organization full of them. I’m all for drafting and developing if the Oilers were any good at it. They’re not. They need help at almost every position. Most of the players we have drafted are years away from helping. McDavid isn’t going to wait for Bouchard and Broberg to be full time NHLers in 4 years. The Canucks took a big gamble on Miller and we all laughed. As of minutes ago we are staring up at them in the standings.
 
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lakai17

Registered User
Aug 10, 2006
20,922
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We should be looking at buy low guys, surely our pro scouts must have some good feelings about a few bubble players on good teams? I mean if they don't, why do they have jobs?

That is the only option or a blockbuster trade to shake things up or do up both options.

The buy low guys he did bring in the summer were below buy low guys which is the problem today. Too much ahl depth.

Hopefully Holland is brewing up something or at least some stronger coffee in the near future.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,861
Is Kevin Lowe still employed by the Oilers? For that matter how many older buggers are still employed by this team? I heard all this jazz about how Nicholson was the most respected man in hockey. As it turns out he’s just another boob in an organization full of them. I’m all for drafting and developing if the Oilers were any good at it. They’re not. They need help at almost every position. Most of the players we have drafted are years away from helping. McDavid isn’t going to wait for Bouchard and Broberg to be full time NHLers in 4 years. The Canucks took a big gamble on Miller and we all laughed. As of minutes ago we are staring up at them in the standings.

Bouchard can probably help in a reasonable time frame, but Broberg and the 2020 1st are realistically 4-5 years away from helping and that doesn't work within a time frame that you can expect McDavid to stay happy with.

The Oilers can't have their cake and eat it too here, they are going to have to make a decision on what's more important.
 

Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
4,024
1,130
northern alberta
xxxx McDavid Kass

RNH Drais xxxx

Benson xxxx Neal

Khaira Sheahan Archie(Slepy?)

Haas, P. Russel


Sadly we need at least two top 6 wingers to be able to break up the dynamic duo....which we must do.
Top line guy can be a 5 mill guy ....Toffoli ....maybe Saad but not sure he would resign long term as he is from eastern Pensylvannia.
2nd line guy needs to be a value contract....I think Blake Coleman is obtainable.
Third line guy ....Tierney ...talk to his agent before we get him .....sign him for 4 years.

Or guys similar ....that would fit and resign....
One in February.....one at the draft.....and one just before free agency....

To really make the cap work (83 million)??,,,,we really need one forward from the farm to work out and at least one of Lagesson/Jones/Persson to win a permanent job out of next training camp.
 
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Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
4,024
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northern alberta
Bouchard can probably help in a reasonable time frame, but Broberg and the 2020 1st are realistically 4-5 years away from helping and that doesn't work within a time frame that you can expect McDavid to stay happy with.

The Oilers can't have their cake and eat it too here, they are going to have to make a decision on what's more important.
This is your first post in 3 or 4 pages that i agree with wholeheartedly.
Broberg and our 1st and maybe even a couple of seconds and Yamo and/Jones are assets we need to be able to part with....but not for rentals for this year.
Soundwave we just need to many pieces to give away valuable assets for a couple of months ....
This year was a write off from the start...
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
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This is your first post in 3 or 4 pages that i agree with wholeheartedly.

The point is basically the same, that's just a more diplomatic way of putting it.

The Oilers are going to have to choose between two things

1.) Keeping McDavid happy now that he is not a kid anymore and getting into his 5th/6th years in the NHL.

or

2.) The fantasy obsession they've had for the last 13 years of becoming a powerhouse team through amassing 1st/2nd round draft picks.

These two things are going to fundamentally come into conflict with each other.
 
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KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,625
31,716
Calgary
Bouchard can probably help in a reasonable time frame, but Broberg and the 2020 1st are realistically 4-5 years away from helping and that doesn't work within a time frame that you can expect McDavid to stay happy with.

The Oilers can't have their cake and eat it too here, they are going to have to make a decision on what's more important.
If Holland’s answer isn’t McDavid then get him out of here. Because we aren’t winning without him.
 

Senor Catface

Registered User
Jul 25, 2006
16,039
20,100
Bracco and Timashov are on the block

Bracco was very good last year in the AHL as a 21 year old. Surprised the Leafs are moving on from him without giving him some NHL time.
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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If Holland’s answer isn’t McDavid then get him out of here. Because we aren’t winning without him.

Yup I agree, this really can't even be a debate. You are obligated to choose McDavid over the fantasy fetish of getting credit for "building through the draft".

This is not a conventional situation.
 

Hemsky4pm2

Registered User
Dec 2, 2017
854
626
RNH is traded between now and next training camp. Probably won't make a difference, but he's the final piece of the old guard left to be jettisoned.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,861
RNH is traded between now and next training camp. Probably won't make a difference, but he's the final piece of the old guard left to be jettisoned.

If you're getting a good player back OK, but realistically what are you getting back.

I would rather trade the 2020 1st. Making Hall (an established, proven NHL player) available instead of moving the 2016 1st round pick was an enormous mistake and even if RNH is a wet fart of a player too often, he is still not easy to replace.

Lavoie is like the only decent center in our system and he's years away from contributing at a high level if he ever does.
 

ImmuneEH

Registered User
Apr 2, 2017
1,198
873
I just don't really see what Holland can do that's meaningful, outside of calling someone up. We're right up against the cap, not too many good chips to deal.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,861
I just don't really see what Holland can do that's meaningful, outside of calling someone up. We're right up against the cap, not too many good chips to deal.

It's actually easier in some ways I think to make deals in-season.

For starters any salary you're sending to another team is half paid already so in actually dollars that ownership group doesn't have to pay the full salary.

Secondly teams that are out of it or going that direction are more apt to just take whatever futures they can get and move on instead of getting hung up on player values.
 

Desktop Email

Registered User
Dec 28, 2019
9
16
We basically need a whole new 2nd line.

  • Neal needs to be given fourth line duty and prime power-play minutes in the style of Columbus Gagner.
  • Nuge needs to either take significant time to heal whatever injury he's nursing or get booted for someone who can drive the line and play a physical game.
  • We don't even have an NHL caliber second line center (I meant to say right wing but I'll keep this) so I won't even comment on that.
This team has so many holes to fill that it scares me. What makes our forward woes worse is the steep regression from basically all of our defenders from the start of the year which has turned us into Humpty Dumpty. I don't think Ken Holland and his men can put us back together again in time, if at all.
 
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5 Mins 4 Ftg

Life is better with no expectations.
Sponsor
Apr 3, 2016
49,211
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Edmonton
We basically need a whole new 2nd line.

  • Neal needs to be given fourth line duty and prime power-play minutes in the style of Columbus Gagner.
  • Nuge needs to either take significant time to heal whatever injury he's nursing or get booted for someone who can drive the line and play a physical game.
  • We don't even have an NHL caliber second line center so I won't even comment on that.
This team has so many holes to fill that it scares me. What makes our forward woes worse is the steep regression from basically all of our defenders from the start of the year which has turned us into Humpty Dumpty. I don't think Ken Holland and his men can put us back together again in time, if at all.

My buddy and I were saying the exact things about Neal and RNH at last nights game. If Draisatl is going to be a winger on this team then we need a 2nd and 3rd line C because RNH isn’t that guy right now. Neal on the 4th line with first line PP duty is exactly where he needs to be.
 

Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
4,024
1,130
northern alberta
This is how we got into this trouble

Bad contracts, bad development and teading away picks.

Teams are not lining up to help us. They revving their car engines to run over us
Assessing risk...good development ...making smart decisions supposedly why we signed Holland,

Sadly ....I hope Soundwave is wrong about Holland and he does have the cojones to do what has to be done....dont get me wrong ...not what Soundwave wants done ....but what is smart and necessary...

Im worried to cause Holland has been draft and develop....and he needs to be able to put at least the next first and a couple of seconds on the table ....and maybe a couple of prospects....Not something he has done successfully in the past.
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
99,867
13,850
Somewhere on Uranus
Looks like the oilers will be hitting a new kind of low. Looks like after the calgary loss the person who run the oilers twitter feed did not like the feed back from some fans and blocked them. I imagine this will end well for the person who runs the twitter feed
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,861
The Oilers can make the playoffs this year if they want. They don't want to part with the draft picks that would be required to do it, but

2020 1st

2021 2nd + Puljujarvi

Would both net the Oilers a decent forward.
 

Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
4,024
1,130
northern alberta
The Oilers can make the playoffs this year if they want. They don't want to part with the draft picks that would be required to do it, but

2020 1st

2021 2nd + Puljujarvi

Would both net the Oilers a decent forward.
Yes definitely would and if we can talk to the agent about extension first ....would be a good thing to do!
But for me that doesnt make us a playoff team.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,159
27,861
Yes definitely would and if we can talk to the agent about extension first ....would be a good thing to do!
But for me that doesnt make us a playoff team.

Two decent forwards can be like a 40-60 goal swing, not only the scoring they bring but the fact that they'd probably help a Nugent Hopkins score more as well.

That's a monstrous difference, the last time the Oilers had any forward depth they were a 103 point team.

They been gradually losing forward depth every year for the last 3 years.
 
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McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
41,685
30,147
Ontario
I didn't realize Timashov was on the block along with Bracco.

That's a guy I'd be all over. Skill, skating and would lead this team in hits/60.
 

780il

edm
May 29, 2018
12,622
14,463
Edmonton AB
Tank, luck out and get Byfield
Sign Pietrangelo
Trade Larsson for Faksa
Trade a 2nd for Georgiev
Dump Russel
Sign Craig Smith for cheap

Drai - Mcdavid - Kass
Nuge - Byfield - Smith
Benson - Faksa - Pulju
Khaira - Haas - Neal

Nurse - Pietro
Klefbom - Bear
Lagesson - Benning

Georgiev
Koskinen

And that’s my dream world fantasy situation
 
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