Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | The Finishing Touches on the Roster/AKA Waiting For Cheap Signings

[K1984]

It isn't. Hence, the dilemma.

Then really it isn't a dilemma. If the consequence is the team goes to shit if he leaves, then he is worth the money.

If people agree that we're hooped if he's gone then it mystifies me why they can't accept that because of this fact he is worth the value to re-sign him.

 

[Pucklington]

This board is tiring...

 

[K1984]

How is providing data mental gymnastics?

And yes you should explain what he does well in the ice. Saying "you're wrong everyone knows it" isn't shit. I'm providing data and info, that's not mental gymnastics.

Saying "he's not a team player" because of a bizarre creative assumption about his contract negotiations isn't inventive mental gymnastics?

I don't need to explain what Nurse does on the ice to people on an Oilers board for christ sakes. You're pretending he's a replacement level player that is only in this position because of circumstance, which is patently ridiculous.

 

[Shathar]

Then really it isn't a dilemma. If the consequence is the team goes to shit if he leaves, then he is worth the money.

If people agree that we're hooped if he's gone then it mystifies me why they can't accept that because of this fact he is worth the value to re-sign him.

there are a lot of different levels of 'shit'.

We made the playoffs the last two years. We lost in the first round. Badly.

Darnell Nurse is a fine athelete. He may very well be a 9M athelete. However, way before his current age (and he's still young), I knew (as we all did) Drai and McDavid were superstars. I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges here; just bear with me.

The 'dellima' is, I (maybe personally) do not know if Nurse is a 9M dollar player. I know those other two guys are, and I've known that for a while. He might be, he might not. Dellima.

 

[Oilhawks]

His xGF plummets away from McDrai but xGA stays about the same. His actual GA and GF get terrible away from them.

That said 856 minutes 5v5 out of like 2500 minutes away from McDrai. So he plays the vast majority of his time with them

I think the bolded is going to look a lot different with the improved forward corp this year

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Then really it isn't a dilemma. If the consequence is the team goes to shit if he leaves, then he is worth the money.

If people agree that we're hooped if he's gone then it mystifies me why they can't accept that because of this fact he is worth the value to re-sign him.

I think it’s kind of a separate issue regarding whether or not he’s a $9 million defenseman. Just because we’re not in a position to let him walk doesn’t make the contract automatically good.

To provide an extreme case, if McDavid was demanding $20 million per on his contract, we would’ve had to accept but that doesn’t mean it would have been a good contract lol

 

[K1984]

there are a lot of different levels of 'shit'.

We made the playoffs the last two years. We lost in the first round. Badly.

Darnell Nurse is a fine athelete. He may very well be a 9M athelete. However, way before his current age (and he's still young), I knew (as we all did) Drai and McDavid were superstars. I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges here; just bear with me.

The 'dellima' is, I (maybe personally) do not know if Nurse is a 9M dollar player. I know those other two guys are, and I've known that for a while. He might be, he might not. Dellima.

I get what you're saying. Not everyone knew on Leon though, the bellyaching on that one was intense.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Isn't it amazing how quickly Ethan Bear went from fan favorite top 4 RHD to a bottom pair nobody the day he got traded. crazy how that works

I actually think the sentiment is reversed. Last season whenever someone would mention that Bear should be placed on the first pairing and Barrie down the lineup on the third pairing the idea was outright rejected by the majority. I see recollection of the first 20 games of Bear's rookie campaign and attribution of the qualities from that limited sample over the player we witnessed from all of last season who never demonstrated that he was capable of greater minutes. The escapability from forecheckers and outstanding first pass was never established last year.

 

[Oilhawks]

Just curious if there is a bit of a consensus from the detractors on what they’ve be comfortable with as an AAV

$7.5M?

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Just curious if there is a bit of a consensus from the detractors on what they’ve be comfortable with as an AAV

$7.5M?

Would be more than happy with 7.5 million. I’d even be happy with 8M. 9 million is where it gets a little hard to digest for me (although I agree we kind of have to do it).

 

[Oilhawks]

Also, I can’t believe that I’m one of the ones leading the defense of re-signing Darnell Nurse. Me from three years ago would have been shocked

 

[Shathar]

Just curious if there is a bit of a consensus from the detractors on what they’ve be comfortable with as an AAV

$7.5M?

Honestly man... A number that everyone can live with. And I totally mean that. It isn't our money, and I'll watch the games regardless of what happens.

My fear is that he will be shit on constantly at 9M if he doesn't live up to it. Which is why I keep saying I would be over the moon if he does.

I realize I didn't answer your question lol. Sorry. I really don't know.

 

[Oilhawks]

Would be more than happy with 7.5 million. I’d even be happy with 8M. 9 million is where it gets a little hard to digest for me (although I agree we kind of have to do it).

Anything more than $8.5M I’m not crazy about but don’t think they have a choice

 

[K1984]

I think it’s kind of a separate issue regarding whether or not he’s a $9 million defenseman. Just because we’re not in a position to let him walk doesn’t make the contract automatically good.

To provide an extreme case, if McDavid was demanding $20 million per on his contract, we would’ve had to accept but that doesn’t mean it would have been a good contract lol

Fair, but what doesn't make sense to me is the stress that a $1-1.5M overpay (the lowest possible realistic argument one could make for what Nurse should be making in an ideal world is $7.5 IMO) is causing some people. He's not trying to juice the team for $12M per year or something, its a small overpay if anything.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Anything more than $8.5M I’m not crazy about but don’t think they have a choice

Yeah I agree. It’s a shitty position. At this point I’d be happy with 8.5.

It’s a great PR tactic to leak a high number and then announce a lower one, so that’s what I’m silently praying for here.

 

[Oilhawks]

Honestly man... A number that everyone can live with. And I totally mean that. It isn't our money, and I'll watch the games regardless of what happens.

My fear is that he will be shit on constantly at 9M if he doesn't live up to it. Which is why I keep saying I would be over the moon if he does.

I realize I didn't answer your question lol. Sorry. I really don't know.

My main worry is not Katz money (wgaf), but the total cap. Next year is going to be tight, so it would be nice if it wasn’t as high as possible. After that, cap opens up with some dead cap and higher contracts coming off (like Keith), so shouldn’t be an issue for re-signing the prospects that will be up for new contracts by then

 

[CycloneSweep]

Then really it isn't a dilemma. If the consequence is the team goes to shit if he leaves, then he is worth the money.

If people agree that we're hooped if he's gone then it mystifies me why they can't accept that because of this fact he is worth the value to re-sign him.

By your arguement give Nurse a blank check then why negotiate.

 

[Oilhawks]

Yeah I agree. It’s a shitty position. At this point I’d be happy with 8.5.

It’s a great PR tactic to leak a high number and then announce a lower one, so that’s what I’m silently praying for here.

That’s what I’m hoping for as well. I could see it being the case, Nuge re-signed for less than the media was selling us on, so fingers crossed

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Fair, but what doesn't make sense to me is the stress that a $1-1.5M overpay (the lowest possible realistic argument one could make for what Nurse should be making in an ideal world is $7.5 IMO) is causing some people. He's not trying to juice the team for $12M per year or something, its a small overpay if anything.

It wouldn’t be a huge issue if we didn’t have other shitty contracts (Koskinen, Kassian) and so much dead money (Neal, Lucic, Sekera, etc).

It’s also going to be the number the other young defensemen on our team will use as reference. In an ideal world you lock up your core for cheap so that the everyone else takes even less.

Another fear is that Bouchard or Broberg knock it out of the park and we don’t have the space to sign them with this top heavy structure. I know that we’re probably going to be happy if one or both of them succeed but if Nurse was at 8 or 7.5 that would set up our cap structure very nicely on defense moving forward.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Just curious if there is a bit of a consensus from the detractors on what they’ve be comfortable with as an AAV

$7.5M?

6.5 but his ability to play minutes 7.5 would be the highest.

1.5 mill is the difference between an Archibald and a Foegele. Every overpay hurts icing a competitive team. I don't know why people are still surprised or don't get this.

Overpaying Nurse means we have a inadequate player playing in another role

 

[Shathar]

My main worry is not Katz money (wgaf), but the total cap. Next year is going to be tight, so it would be nice if it wasn’t as high as possible. After that, cap opens up with some dead cap and higher contracts coming off (like Keith), so shouldn’t be an issue for re-signing the prospects that will be up for new contracts by then

Yeah I hear you. I would just hate to see Darnell get trashed because of that contract. He's one of my favorite players. If it turns out that he can't live up to 9M as a bonafide true #1, what are we going to be saying when (perhaps) we have one coming up that we can't pay? All eyes will fall on him.

 

[CycloneSweep]

That’s what I’m hoping for as well. I could see it being the case, Nuge re-signed for less than the media was selling us on, so fingers crossed

Nuge is that kind of guy though. Nurse always bets on himself and the money

 

[Del Preston]

Let's trade the best defenseman on the team because he might be slightly overpaid and then be shocked when there's no one to take his minutes.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Just curious if there is a bit of a consensus from the detractors on what they’ve be comfortable with as an AAV

$7.5M?

Outside of one poster I believe anything under Leon's money would be acceptable.

 

[GOilers88]

Honestly man... A number that everyone can live with. And I totally mean that. It isn't our money, and I'll watch the games regardless of what happens.

My fear is that he will be shit on constantly at 9M if he doesn't live up to it. Which is why I keep saying I would be over the moon if he does.

I realize I didn't answer your question lol. Sorry. I really don't know.

What I think is amusing is that it's the player who will take shit because of what someone else decided to pay him. We see players get shit on all the time because of what they're being paid and it's funny to me.

If I sucked at my job and my boss offered me even more money, I'd f***in take it and laugh all the way to the bank for them thinking that giving me more money means my talent should increase to reflect it.