Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
- Sep 13, 2004
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Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | The Finishing Touches on the Roster/AKA Waiting For Cheap Signings
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Paralyzer008
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- Jan 30, 2008
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I could see this offseason being salvaged a bit if they found a way to bring in Tatar, but I don't see it happening.
I hate this whole "guys trust Kassian in the top six" narrative is back.
We're not deep enough still, anywhere.
I hate this whole "guys trust Kassian in the top six" narrative is back.
We're not deep enough still, anywhere.
Fishy McScales
Registered User
Continuing on a bit with the Koskinen talk in the previous thread. I think he is a pretty decent goalie and I think we'll have to live with him partnering up with Smith for one more year.
His numbers are alright, it's just that it became painfully obvious last season that he is not a starter in this league and that he is overpaid. But we're rolling the dice that Smith can be our #1 over a full schedule so Koskinen can be given a lighter workload.
Obviously he has that tendency to completely fold on occasion, in that way that deflates the entire team, but we are not getting out of that contract I think so we'll just have to try and limit those occasions as much as possible and then move on next summer.
His numbers are alright, it's just that it became painfully obvious last season that he is not a starter in this league and that he is overpaid. But we're rolling the dice that Smith can be our #1 over a full schedule so Koskinen can be given a lighter workload.
Obviously he has that tendency to completely fold on occasion, in that way that deflates the entire team, but we are not getting out of that contract I think so we'll just have to try and limit those occasions as much as possible and then move on next summer.
Took a pill in Sbisa
2showToffoliIwascool
Im really hoping, but not expecting, that the reason Tatar hasn't signed yet is because he has a deal in place with Edmonton pending moving salary out (maybe Kassian?).
Unlikely but man.
Hyman-McDavid-Puljujarvi
Tatar-Draisaitl-Foegele
Holloway-RNH-Yamamoto
jesusbuiltmyhotrod
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2021
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lol, the forwards are as deep as we have had in a very long time...Such hyperbole, such doom.
Paralyzer008
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2008
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The cup winner:
Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow
Colton-Johnson-Maroon
vs
Foegele-McLeod-Kassian
Shore-Ryan-Archibald
Man it's practically the same. We should win the cup easily. Hail Holland!
I guess with Kassian being spoonfed his top six time, we can expect Jesse P on that 3rd line instead.
By the way - I'm not even disagreeing with what you're saying. What I am saying is, Foegele is our best bottom six player and that tells you how pathetic the bottom six has been for a long, long time.
Foegele on his own team was a fringe 3rd/strong 4th line guy. Our 3rd line is still quite non-existent. Holloway/Lavoie/Bourgault hopefully change that someday.
Asiaoil
Vperod Bizona!
It's about 50-50 that any goalie we bring in at this point will be better than Koskinen this coming year. Hell even Price was only .901 in the regular season. Look at the guys who moved last year:
Talbot .915
Greiss .912
Allen .907
Markstrom .904
<Koskinen> .899
Dubnyk .895
Murray .893
Holtby .889
Dell .857
The most likely outcome in a Koskinen trade is a guy who would perform about the same as Koskinen. Buying him out never made any sense and giving up assets just for the sake of change doesn't either. Same as on defense, the fix needs to come from internal development, and we have spent a bunch of recent picks on goalies (Skinner, Konavalov, Rodrigue, Wells). Our system is packed with them.
I think we should go into the year with Smith and Kos. Let Kos and Stalock battle for backup in camp, and give Skinner and Konavalov NHL games as well this season if they are playing well. That's 5 guys and we don't need any more. Maybe Pittsburg wants to do a cap neutral trade like Kos (salary retained) and Skinner for Jarry. I'd do that but not sure PIT would unless they really want to off-load Jarry's contract early. Maybe NYR does a similar trade for Georgiev but he wasn't much better than Kos last year.
No silver bullets out there and no guarantee moving on from Kos will produce improvement.
Talbot .915
Greiss .912
Allen .907
Markstrom .904
<Koskinen> .899
Dubnyk .895
Murray .893
Holtby .889
Dell .857
The most likely outcome in a Koskinen trade is a guy who would perform about the same as Koskinen. Buying him out never made any sense and giving up assets just for the sake of change doesn't either. Same as on defense, the fix needs to come from internal development, and we have spent a bunch of recent picks on goalies (Skinner, Konavalov, Rodrigue, Wells). Our system is packed with them.
I think we should go into the year with Smith and Kos. Let Kos and Stalock battle for backup in camp, and give Skinner and Konavalov NHL games as well this season if they are playing well. That's 5 guys and we don't need any more. Maybe Pittsburg wants to do a cap neutral trade like Kos (salary retained) and Skinner for Jarry. I'd do that but not sure PIT would unless they really want to off-load Jarry's contract early. Maybe NYR does a similar trade for Georgiev but he wasn't much better than Kos last year.
No silver bullets out there and no guarantee moving on from Kos will produce improvement.
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Asiaoil
Vperod Bizona!
Paralyzer
Hyman >>> Matthews
I mean..it could be a LOT worse. We could be stuck with Markstrom if he put up the same numbers as Koskinen and he'd be here for 6+ more years lol.
Mcnotloilersfan
I'm here, I'm bored
Despite the save percentage, Markstrom looked better than his numbers suggested.
I genuinely believe he would have had much better numbers here.
I'm not advocating for Mart Murray either, but I think he also would have done a lot better here.
Aside from the elite few goaltenders, goaltending is generally largely a product of the system.
It's hard when a guy like Koskinen is given a system to succeed, but he fails too many times at stopping the shot that the defense keeps to the outside.
Even the best goalies will make several mistakes in a season. But his are plentiful and poorly timed.
So if another goalie had similar numbers, you have to judge if their style would do better in our system, than where they just were.
Paralyzer
Hyman >>> Matthews
Uhhh, that's why I said "...if he put up the same numbers as Koskinen". So I'm basing this off if he DID have poor numbers. Of course anyone can play better. But I'm getting at the point if we had a goalie signed for 6+ years and put up the same numbers, everyone would be even more pissed off.
Beerfish
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- Apr 14, 2007
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Waving the white flag on the season if this is the tact.
Oh we will make the playoffs but tending has been not good enough the last two years and we are trotting out the same duo. And Smith repeating last year is more unlikely than likely.
Upgrading goal was vastly more important the last few years than anything else, more than constant bottom 6 shuffling or defense or even our big top 6 winger get.
As for 'Kos' the team and the coach have zero faith in the player, zero. He lets in the early goal and the whole team slumps.
In the end being out goaltended will be this teams down fall, like last year and the year before.
Reminds me of an old joke. 6 revolutionaries are in the jungle for 6months. They are abit blue. Der leader comes to them to try to cheer them up, he asks, he has good news and bad which would they like first. They choose good. The news is, they have a underwear switch available…. In much the same way switching underperforming goalies could help everyone involved.
trent_vinyl
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- Jul 5, 2005
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No kidding. Weren't we something like 9th last year in 5on5 scoring. Yeah, a lot of that's due to McD and Drai, but come on, bringing Foegele and Hyman in definitely improves our forward group. Defence we'll have to wait and see. Keith, Ceci, and Bouchard are all a bit of an unknown at this time as to how they're going to perform. Compare what we've done to what a number of other teams have done and then tell me our offseason needs to be "salvaged".
You gotta stop comparing teams to the tampa bay lightning who were almost 20M over the cap. Because of it they've already lost 4 of those guys.
McJadeddog
Registered User
I don't think our bottom-6 is nearly strong enough either, but Foegele was not a "strong 4th line" player last year. He was a borderline 2nd line winger/strong 3rd line winger, and all the stats back that up as well.
I agree that the bottom 6 still needs some work but Rome wasn't built in a day. Holloway, Lavoie and Benson should all be pushing for spots (Bourgault, Savoie, and Tullio down the road). I'm excited to see some internal growth and see the young guys continue to fight for spots on the roster. and hopefully we can grab some veterans as the deadline to round out the team.
Asiaoil
Vperod Bizona!
That 4 goal game is overplayed. Two of those were wide open shots with time in the kill zone that guys placed perfectly. Grant Fuhr wasn't saving those. The other two were knuckleball bounces from in tight. The Oilers were a bloody joke defensively in that game but all people remember is the goalie. Every goalie has a bad night, even the best, but shyting on your goalie can come back to haunt you. Careful what you wish for.
Kos is certainly not Roy. He's pretty much a league average or slightly below guy who was given a ridiculous contract. Like that's his fault. Unless someone will take his contract in exchange for another guy with issues (Jarry, Georgiev) then it's dumb to lose assets trading him and then watch him be a league average goalie again. The guy has maybe 30-40 games left as an Oiler and a smart GM/coach/team figure out a way to make those as effective as possible.
Kos is certainly not Roy. He's pretty much a league average or slightly below guy who was given a ridiculous contract. Like that's his fault. Unless someone will take his contract in exchange for another guy with issues (Jarry, Georgiev) then it's dumb to lose assets trading him and then watch him be a league average goalie again. The guy has maybe 30-40 games left as an Oiler and a smart GM/coach/team figure out a way to make those as effective as possible.
Aerchon
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2011
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Our defense and goaltending is being heralded near bottom of the league. We have enough problems without making stuff up.
Our forward group is top 5 in the league. Can't compare to a tax free cheater team, sure, but otherwise the forwards are a great group AND we have a couple prospects knocking on the door.
Edit: if 5v5 scoring we are not near the top of the league this year Tippett needs to be held accountable. Our line up should practically score at will with the offensive talent put together including Nurse, Bouchard and Barrie
I'm not a big fan of Koskinen. He always showed flashes of being a good goaltender when he started but was never a bad goaltender. A lot of it is mental. I don't see how he bounces back here when the guys in front of him don't want to play for him anymore.
Having said that, I don't think Holland should compound this mistake but throwing picks at it. Hopefully Smith can come in and play like 25 games, Koskinen gets 10 and Konovalov gets 10. If it all falls apart they can get a goaltender at the deadline.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
I would absolutely agree if it wasn't the logical conclusion to a consistent problem in Koskinen's play. The other thing, you referenced 2 HHOFers who had bad games, no one is saying guys don't have bad games, but that's not Koskinen's situation. His situation is an underwhelming goalie who constantly lets in the first shot of the game, having the logical conclusion to that flaw in his game.
We were 9th in goals against last year. So yeah people are kind of making stuff up.
Paralyzer008
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2008
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What? A borderline 2nd line winger? Come on man.
When he played in the top six in Carolina, he did nothing.
I like Foegele but let's not pretend he's about to explode or something. The Canes have an analytic team, I believe they saw that his lack of finish limits him and his F TOI was 10th on Carolina, hence exactly what I said.
Also to the TBL comment - their bottom six is still Maroon-Bellemare-Perry and Colton-Cirelli-Joseph, it's pretty damn good. Look at every 3rd line that has won the cup in the last 10-15 years, they are all elite. Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel. Teravainen-Vermette-Versteeg. Maroon-Bozak-Thomas. LA ran Justin Williams on their cup 3rd line.
Oilers need a whole bunch of their F prospects to develop to get an elite 3rd line, and it's not happening this season folks.
Good to see HF forgot what our management is though and is back to convincing themselves the goalies will be just as good, the D will magically improve with Keith/Ceci getting big minutes and the bottom six is nearly good enough. (and hey, I actually love Hyman!)
Nostradumbass
Divinity
- Jan 1, 2007
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We only have Nurse and Barrie returning to that defensive core, assuming Russell is in the press box.
Jimmi McJenkins
Sometimes miracles
And this is bad because? Keith is an upgrade on the No one that was there, Larsson is probably better then Ceci, Bear and Bouchard is a push and they need one more guy.
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