Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Slow days of summer

[SK13]

Eh, I dunno if the ROR contract is that bad. O'Reilly will be 25 when it starts and ends at 32, and a 25 year old Ryan O'Reilly would have gotten 7M pretty easily if he had made it to free agency.

I think it's a bad contract, but I don't think that's so much on the Sabres as it the current perception of players like Ryan O'Reilly.

We've seen a trend where forwards who are perceived to be elite defensively are making star money even if their offense isn't clearly first line calibre. ROR is a 15-40 guy most years. Maybe a reasonable 1B, and Buffalo will need to hand out big raises during the life of that deal to more important pieces.

 

[K1984]

The team that signed ROR was going to have to overpay, whether it be through UFA or RFA. That being said I still can't for the life of me figure out why Buffalo decided that they should be the team to do it. And trade good assets for the pleasure.

 

[tiger_80]

I totally agree on Kesler. We're seeing more deals like that. His deal is not to bad for a few years, but it will start looking really bad in the back half of the contract. It's mortgaging the future a bit

The Ducks have never spent to the cap and have a short window of opportunity with Getzlaf and Perry already 30 years old. They are clearly going all in now. Kesler will likely be a legitimate top 2nd line center at least for the duration of the said window in the next 2-3, maybe even 3-4 years (it's certainly not unheard of to produce at the age of 34). Then if he declines, they will simply move him with salary retained. They will be able to do it as Kesler getting paid 3-3.5 Million on the 3rd line is not nearly as bad as Kessler making 6M+ to play on the 3rd line. Then the next team can move him with salary retained if he's no longer a 3rd line player. At the end of the day, I expect him to play out his contract, though it may not be with the Ducks.

 

[guymez]

Is there a return for Nashville (that is palatable enough for the Oilers) that would make this deal feasible?

I have my doubts.

Why trading Shea Weber finally makes sense for Nashville

 

[Riptide]

There really isn't a bad signing this off-season in the FA market. Belesky really is the only one and well 3.75mil or wtv isn't that bad for a gritty,3rd liner.

Beleskey? 7 years at 3.8m or whatever? But yeah other than that, this summer was actually very reasonable. And while I wasn't a fan of ROR's contract... it's really not all that bad.

 

[Spawn]

Is there a return for Nashville (that is palatable enough for the Oilers) that would make this deal feasible?

I have my doubts.

Why trading Shea Weber finally makes sense for Nashville

If the Preds decided they were going to trade Weber I don't think they'd get as much as they would want. Not many teams can afford to add nearly $8 million to their cap structure, and any team that does isn't going to be willing to trade a #1 center for him because they are going to want that #1 center in order to compete for the cup while they've got Weber.

But so long as they don't actually want to move him (or he doesn't request a trade) their asking price would be too high.

 

[rasarhdasd]

I think it's a bad contract, but I don't think that's so much on the Sabres as it the current perception of players like Ryan O'Reilly.

We've seen a trend where forwards who are perceived to be elite defensively are making star money even if their offense isn't clearly first line calibre. ROR is a 15-40 guy most years. Maybe a reasonable 1B, and Buffalo will need to hand out big raises during the life of that deal to more important pieces.

Yeah, it was basically a perfect storm for Ryan O'Reilly. Plays center + two way reputation + young age when he'd be UFA. I thought it was terrible at first but I've warmed up to it a lot. Still not a great contract, but if you're gonna overpay might as well be on young players like Ryan O'Reilly, it'll be interesting for sure to see how his contract plays out with the rest*of the team needing new contracts eventually.

 

[Mr Positive]

Is there a return for Nashville (that is palatable enough for the Oilers) that would make this deal feasible?

I have my doubts.

Why trading Shea Weber finally makes sense for Nashville

I am so in favour of this trade, even if we pay up big time. Maybe Nashville doesn't have a lot of leverage considering the cap space situation around the league, but for an elite asset like Weber I don't think that should matter. Off the top of my head I'm thinking Draisaitl and Klefbom for starters, and maybe a big ticket player like Eberle on top of that.

The only issue to me is that Weber's contract is heavily bonus-laden. Nashville just paid 13 million to Weber July 1st. If Nashville wanted to trade Weber, that was the time, and they are starting to enter the period where Weber's real dollar salary and bonuses go way down. For a small market like Nashville it doesn't make much sense to trade Weber now.

 

[tiger_80]

If the Preds decided they were going to trade Weber I don't think they'd get as much as they would want. Not many teams can afford to add nearly $8 million to their cap structure, and any team that does isn't going to be willing to trade a #1 center for him because they are going to want that #1 center in order to compete for the cup while they've got Weber.

But so long as they don't actually want to move him (or he doesn't request a trade) their asking price would be too high.

Yes, star for star trades rarely happen. More likely we are looking at a real blue chip prospect with top line/top pairing potential, 2nd line forward/2nd pairing d-man who can help now and a pile of 1st and 2nd round picks. Essentially what OIlers got for Pronger still applies. The Oilers would have to give up Eberle, Nurse, 1st and 2nd to get Weber, IMhO. Maybe even two 1sts. It's a hefty price to pay. It my be worth it if Yakupov steps it up this season and they can find a replacement for Eberle in free agency.
Weber and Skera would immediately give the team an all situations top pairing, allowing Klefbom, Fayne, Schultz face lesser competition and bring in Reinhart slowly.

 

[Spawn]

Yes, star for star trades rarely happen. More likely we are looking at a real blue chip prospect with top line/top pairing potential, 2nd line forward/2nd pairing d-man who can help now and a pile of 1st and 2nd round picks. Essentially what OIlers got for Pronger still applies. The Oilers would have to give up Eberle, Nurse, 1st and 2nd to get Weber, IMhO. Maybe even two 1sts. It's a hefty price to pay. It my be worth it if Yakupov steps it up this season and they can find a replacement for Eberle in free agency.
Weber and Skera would immediately give the team an all situations top pairing, allowing Klefbom, Fayne, Schultz face lesser competition and bring in Reinhart slowly.

If Nashville felt they had to move Weber, I don't think there is any way it would be that much. Nashville might ask for it, but I doubt the Oilers would consider it. No team is giving up that much for one player.

 

[Fourier]

Nashville is in a tough spot moving Weber before the next CBA. If a team was to buy out the last three years of his deal it would trigger a huge recapture penalty for them . Giving up control of his contract is a dangerous move. If they can weasel out of the penalty at the next CBA then maybe. But that is too late for Weber to have the sort of value he might have now.

 

[Riptide]

If Nashville felt they had to move Weber, I don't think there is any way it would be that much. Nashville might ask for it, but I doubt the Oilers would consider it. No team is giving up that much for one player.

He has 8 years and 65m left owning to him. That's still a huge commitment someone would have to make. Luongo had a hell of a time getting traded with a similar contract - and his level of play was not an issue.

However as for no team is giving up that much... formula wise that's probably not that far off. Player, prospect, 1st. And it's possible that Nashville would get one of those players (Ebs/Nurse), but I doubt they'd get both. Besides... there's no way they move Weber and not get back a C (player or prospect). If Weber is getting traded to Edmonton, I cannot see it not including one of Draisaitl or RNH.

Say this was the offer at the end of this season.

RNH+ or LD+Nurse+.

If that was the ask, I'd be torn. Long term I think LD will be the better fit in Edmonton. But he hasn't proven a lot (unless he plays well this season). Nurse should be a great player in this league. But same thing... hasn't done a lot - yet. Personally I'd be more inclined to move RNH over LD/Nurse, but then I do not think nearly as highly as most others do about him.

Thoughts?

 

[Mr Positive]

I don't think it makes any sense to trade RNH today just because it leaves McDavid to anchor our top six by himself, with maybe Lander to take the 2nd line. Draisaitl isn't ready, but oddly enough he might be a better complement to McDavid than RNH is considering considering Draisaitl is a big center.

If we waited even one season then an RNH trade becomes much more palatable.

 

[Samus44]

Nashville is in a tough spot moving Weber before the next CBA. If a team was to buy out the last three years of his deal it would trigger a huge recapture penalty for them . Giving up control of his contract is a dangerous move. If they can weasel out of the penalty at the next CBA then maybe. But that is too late for Weber to have the sort of value he might have now.

Well that is true that a recapture penalty would be a tough pill to swallow but i also believe that in order for a player to be bought out that he has to pass through waivers, and afaik at that point Nashville could reclaim him to avoid a buyout. Obviously it's not a great scenario if his performance has dipped that much, so i'm sure they might want a little extra in return, but if he regresses to buyout levels he's going to end his deal as a Predator regardless.

As a side i also think it's unfortunate Nashville has to deal with this nonsense, they had to match that offer for the health of their franchise, unlike the other clubs who signed players to crazy term as a way to circumvent the cap. It was good for them in the long run still, as i think it was obvious Weber was going to walk, but they still seem a bit victimized IMO.

 

[tiger_80]

He has 8 years and 65m left owning to him. That's still a huge commitment someone would have to make. Luongo had a hell of a time getting traded with a similar contract - and his level of play was not an issue.

However as for no team is giving up that much... formula wise that's probably not that far off. Player, prospect, 1st. And it's possible that Nashville would get one of those players (Ebs/Nurse), but I doubt they'd get both. Besides... there's no way they move Weber and not get back a C (player or prospect). If Weber is getting traded to Edmonton, I cannot see it not including one of Draisaitl or RNH.

Say this was the offer at the end of this season.

RNH+ or LD+Nurse+.

If that was the ask, I'd be torn. Long term I think LD will be the better fit in Edmonton. But he hasn't proven a lot (unless he plays well this season). Nurse should be a great player in this league. But same thing... hasn't done a lot - yet. Personally I'd be more inclined to move RNH over LD/Nurse, but then I do not think nearly as highly as most others do about him.

Thoughts?

Depending on how Draisaitl prgresses, there may come a time fr them t choose between him and RNH. I don't think either is getting moved this year. Next year--possible. Lander is also a wild card. He may become a solid 2nd line center if he finds his offense consistently. Overall, the Oilers are in great shape at center. Need some better winger prospects now. Who would have thought a year and a half ago?

 

[joestevens29]

I don't know, but if Weber is on the table and it costs you RNH you pull the trigger. Look at what Prongs did with our center group last time around.

Bringing in Weber helps you shelter your young d-men. He also shelters the rest of the team. The impact he would bring is just too great to pass on.

 

[tiger_80]

I don't know, but if Weber is on the table and it costs you RNH you pull the trigger. Look at what Prongs did with our center group last time around.

Bringing in Weber helps you shelter your young d-men. He also shelters the rest of the team. The impact he would bring is just too great to pass on.

He's not as good as Pronger. That said, if all it takes is RNH as the main piece--you pull the trigger and run with it.

 

[joestevens29]

Depending on how Draisaitl prgresses, there may come a time fr them t choose between him and RNH. I don't think either is getting moved this year. Next year--possible. Lander is also a wild card. He may become a solid 2nd line center if he finds his offense consistently. Overall, the Oilers are in great shape at center. Need some better winger prospects now. Who would have thought a year and a half ago?

Why do we need wingers? We just need complimentary wingers and those aren't exactly that hard to get.

 

[tiger_80]

Why do we need wingers? We just need complimentary wingers and those aren't exactly that hard to get.

Because at some point we may have to move one of Yakupv or Eberle--either to fill other needs or to free up the cap space. It's important to have quality prospects at every position to ensure you have a steady stream of players on ELC.

 

[Samus44]

He has 8 years and 65m left owning to him. That's still a huge commitment someone would have to make. Luongo had a hell of a time getting traded with a similar contract - and his level of play was not an issue.

However as for no team is giving up that much... formula wise that's probably not that far off. Player, prospect, 1st. And it's possible that Nashville would get one of those players (Ebs/Nurse), but I doubt they'd get both. Besides... there's no way they move Weber and not get back a C (player or prospect). If Weber is getting traded to Edmonton, I cannot see it not including one of Draisaitl or RNH.

Say this was the offer at the end of this season.

RNH+ or LD+Nurse+.

If that was the ask, I'd be torn. Long term I think LD will be the better fit in Edmonton. But he hasn't proven a lot (unless he plays well this season). Nurse should be a great player in this league. But same thing... hasn't done a lot - yet. Personally I'd be more inclined to move RNH over LD/Nurse, but then I do not think nearly as highly as most others do about him.

Thoughts?

I genuinely can't recall a single time two recently drafted high picks like that have been dealt for any player since at least the 00's. No team is likely to give up two core assests like that, who's going to match that kind of offer? Nashville would get damn near 20 years of hockey out of those two by the time they were Weber's age. And if not them two then who's going to offer a guy like Hopkins? Nobody, since barely any teams have 18-25 year old center's like him. A 1st line 22 year old center is a franchise player. Not many teams have young players that good which means a competing offer from them is going to be a core piece already entrenched on their roster. If the deal Weber over Jones it will go to show just how much value young guys like Jones, Draisaitl and Nurse have to an organization. Nashville is likely to get a core asset and a collection of quality assets, not multiple core pieces or a franchise player in return. This is just my opinion but i'd argue historically the kind of deals you and others have suggested just don't happen.

A reasonable starting base would be something like the Pronger/Seguin trade and add maybe a little bit more. I think it's obvious Nashville would want a center back, and since i wouldn't trade McDavid or Hopkins for anything short of the sun and the moon that leaves Draisaitl. Something like Draisaitl (core player), Fayne (good roster player/replacement), Simpson (good but not core prospect), and two 1st round picks (picks are a common way to pad an offer) would be a fair offer IMO. This all hinges on the idea the Nashville goes all in for a center and they deem the ancillary assets and extra seasons of control valuable enough to justify trading Weber over say Jones in a bid to get that player. I doubt Nashville wants to go either route tbh, maybe they try to package a guy like Ellis or go after the next big rental or UFA center, but if they did i'd be shocked if they got a ton more than what i posted.

 

[frag2]

I don't know, but if Weber is on the table and it costs you RNH you pull the trigger. Look at what Prongs did with our center group last time around.

Bringing in Weber helps you shelter your young d-men. He also shelters the rest of the team. The impact he would bring is just too great to pass on.

This. Or if its Draisaitl, whichever.

I don't see either having the impact that Hall has [and of course McDavid] so if that's what it takes, so be it.

If Nuge ends up with another 56 pt season, I'm gonna be mightily disappointed.

 

[Samus44]

Why do we need wingers? We just need complimentary wingers and those aren't exactly that hard to get.

That's not true at all. I certainly agree that the positional needs of hockey make it apparent that your best skaters should be your center and dmen but it's also true that in order to win hockey games you need to score goals and the strength of your wings is essential to doing that. Poor wingers = trouble scoring or easily being shutdown. You need offensive diversity. It's important that a team has a variety of players and talents that can execute in particular or multiple roles. You can be a good team without very good wingers but to be a great team you need good-great wingers, they're just too vital to scoring goals and scoring goals is the toughest thing to do in hockey.

 

[rockinghockey]

Yes, star for star trades rarely happen. More likely we are looking at a real blue chip prospect with top line/top pairing potential, 2nd line forward/2nd pairing d-man who can help now and a pile of 1st and 2nd round picks. Essentially what OIlers got for Pronger still applies. The Oilers would have to give up Eberle, Nurse, 1st and 2nd to get Weber, IMhO. Maybe even two 1sts. It's a hefty price to pay. It my be worth it if Yakupov steps it up this season and they can find a replacement for Eberle in free agency.
Weber and Skera would immediately give the team an all situations top pairing, allowing Klefbom, Fayne, Schultz face lesser competition and bring in Reinhart slowly.

He has 8 years and 65m left owning to him. That's still a huge commitment someone would have to make. Luongo had a hell of a time getting traded with a similar contract - and his level of play was not an issue.

However as for no team is giving up that much... formula wise that's probably not that far off. Player, prospect, 1st. And it's possible that Nashville would get one of those players (Ebs/Nurse), but I doubt they'd get both. Besides... there's no way they move Weber and not get back a C (player or prospect). If Weber is getting traded to Edmonton, I cannot see it not including one of Draisaitl or RNH.

Say this was the offer at the end of this season.

RNH+ or LD+Nurse+.

If that was the ask, I'd be torn. Long term I think LD will be the better fit in Edmonton. But he hasn't proven a lot (unless he plays well this season). Nurse should be a great player in this league. But same thing... hasn't done a lot - yet. Personally I'd be more inclined to move RNH over LD/Nurse, but then I do not think nearly as highly as most others do about him.

Thoughts?

There is no way I pay that much for Weber LD and Nurse+ not even LD and Nurse
Eberle Nurse 1, 2 when has any player in the last year got a return like that,

 

[Riptide]

I don't know, but if Weber is on the table and it costs you RNH you pull the trigger. Look at what Prongs did with our center group last time around.

Bringing in Weber helps you shelter your young d-men. He also shelters the rest of the team. The impact he would bring is just too great to pass on.

The thing is though, even if Nashville is willing to trade Weber, unless he demands a trade or does something really stupid that forces Nashville's hand, it's not going to be a case where they just sell him to the highest bidder. They're absolutely going to be wanting a #1C or a top young prospect with that potential coming back for Weber... and there's just not that many teams out there with those to spare. SJ (JT, Pav's, Couture) and Edmonton are really the only two. Maybe Boston or NYI depending on how much faith someone has in some of their young guys. But really... that's it.

Which means this isn't something that has to happen now unless something changes. Poile could easily approach the Oilers about a Weber/RNH deal only to have Chia suggest they discuss it later in the season. Then depending on how LD/Lander does, re-evaluate in the spring.

IF Poile came to Chia and said, I'm trading Weber today - either to you or someone else, then that would be a different story. But in that case, I'd probably do it (RNH/Weber). Then go re-sign Roy (or another vet C) and pray that McDavid, Draisaitl and Lander all progress.

 

[duul]

You trade RNH for Weber in a heartbeat. Teams have won Stanley cups with worse C depth than

McDavid
Draisaitl
Lander

We can always bring in another guy like a Mike Fisher in that trade to fill in at #2 until Draisaitl is ready. Not ideal but our team becomes a hell of a lot better.