Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Another Day, Another Disappointment

[Aerrol]

Literally every other team is getting better. Were staying exactly the same. Add In a couple unknowns/depth players and some rookies. Woohoo. Top 10 pick here we come. Feel like we did the exact same thing last summer.

Hey if it finally works out, Holland will likely end up with a GM of the year nomination like Chia did for the one year of playoffs .

 

[belair]

Highly productive, right. Rieder is only 26 and actually WAS a productive 3rd liner until he came here! I do understand where you’re coming from with the untapped potential Nichushkin probably still has but the Oilers need to be finding guys that will produce this season and not another gamble.

The only similarities that Rieder and Nichushkin have at this point in their careers are their 0 goal campaigns. Prior to returning to Edmonton, Rieder had seen a steady decline in offensive production and had already passed through two NHL organizations. I believe there may have been an injury somewhere along the line also.

As for this season. The Oilers are probably better suited bringing a number of 'gambles' to camp at this point versus putting all of their eggs into one basket considering we're not exactly looking at certain production from anyone left who's realistically available to us.

 

[3IR]

Again, I think that was the plan. Stop the bleeding, don't make any big commitments and then go for it next year when the salary cap crunch loosens up.

It's not a great outcome for fans since the team is going to run in place or get worse this season, but it's impossible to see the lack of motion as anything but intentional.

Honestly, you're probably right, but if your organization has two of the best young players in the world on it ready to compete, and the plan is to waste another year of their contracts accomplishing f*** all, then I refuse to be happy with it.

It can be the plan, and it might be the best plan for this organization, but until we're at the point of competing, I'm going to be critical of every single move this organization makes, because that's what they deserve after 10+ years of icing the worst product in all of professional sports.

If Holland is going to spend this summer sitting on his hands, handing out PTO's and signing fourth liners, then fans have every right to be pissed off to start next season. Like i said, he knew the position he was signing up for, if he wasn't ready to pull off a miracle, then he has to know he's going to get shit on until he does.

 

[Oilhawks]

The Blackhawks have wanted Nylander since his draft year. There's your answer.



And they don't have to worry about him not making the team, since he can still freely go down to the minors for two more seasons:

Cue the "If only we knew Jokiharu was available, we would have put together a much better package" quotes from GMs.

Being a Hawks fan, this sounds like Stan Bowman.

 

[Jumptheshark]

It seems like Oiler fans have found another excuse for our GMs inaction

Now we have:

-how was he supposed to know X player was available?
-no western teams will trade in conference unless an asmical overpay
-we dont have the cap space and have no way to ever open up cap space
-players will never waive their NMC for any team (because Edmonton must be the best play to play)

our inaction is directly linked to that fact we have no real cap space

we have 3.93 in cap space--we need to think about bonuses of both Smith and Bouchard(if he makes the team) or Yamamoto

we are in a situation where we can not have carry over penalties due to going over the cap

we are also 48/50 against the contract cap

For me, people screaming about not adding certain players--for every player we add we need to send one out and we need realize that the players we want to move out no one wants

It is not a matter of Holland not knowing player X was available--but our ability to move someone out the other team wants and not a player we do not want to move

we have had many rants about trading either Nuge or Nurse--if not them then who?

the only phone call I think should be made is Gagner to the sens with a 3rd for either a B prospect or a 2nd? Dunno I can see both Manning and Gagner being moved with a pick before the start of the season

other teams are not going to do us favours just because

while some view Holland's inactivity as a bad thing--we have only handed out 1 or 2 year contracts--they players many of us wanted got 4 and 5 year deals and those deals could turn out very bad--

Due to the cap--we needed to take a pause and it will be all our prospects that feel the weight of the fact we are still in cap hell--

we will find out if some are as good as some of us hope

 

[Jumptheshark]

we need to see what we have with who we have and those who do not cut mustard with our prospects get shown the door next year

 

[North]

our inaction is directly linked to that fact we have no real cap space

we have 3.93 in cap space--we need to think about bonuses of both Smith and Bouchard(if he makes the team) or Yamamoto

we are in a situation where we can not have carry over penalties due to going over the cap

we are also 48/50 against the contract cap

For me, people screaming about not adding certain players--for every player we add we need to send one out and we need realize that the players we want to move out no one wants

It is not a matter of Holland not knowing player X was available--but are ability to move someone out the other team wants and that not a player we do not want to move

we have had many rants about trading either Nuge or Nurse--if not them then who?

the only phone call I think should be made is Gagner to the sens with a 3rd for either a B prospect or a 2nd? Dunno I can see both Manning and Gagner being moved with a pick before the start of the season

other teams are not going to do us favours just because

while some view Holland's inactivity as a bad thing--we have only handed out 1 or 2 year contracts--they players many of us wanted got 4 and 5 year deals and those deals could turn out very bad--

Due to the cap--we needed to take a pause and it will be all our prospects that feel the weight of the fact we are still in cap hell--

we will find out if some are as good as some of us hope

At this point Gagner is probably our fourth ranked forward in terms of skill on the big club. If we’re clearing his salary we better be using it on someone who can provide secondary scoring.

 

[Oilhawks]

The only similarities that Rieder and Nichushkin have at this point in their careers are their 0 goal campaigns. Prior to returning to Edmonton, Rieder had seen a steady decline in offensive production and had already passed through two NHL organizations. I believe there may have been an injury somewhere along the line also.

As for this season. The Oilers are probably better suited bringing a number of 'gambles' to camp at this point versus putting all of their eggs into one basket considering we're not exactly looking at certain production from anyone left who's realistically available to us.

I know a lot of people aren't a fan of Gregor here (admittedly I don't mind him), but his "How Will The Edmonton Oilers Improve" article, particularly part 2 (talking about offense), is reasonable. It's literally impossible for the bottom 6 to be as unproductive as it was last year. I think Holland and Co. are feeling this as well, hence the focus on fairly reasonable gambles (Granlund being the "proven" one) to improve the production.

As @Little Fury has mentioned, the plan seems to be to make any significant moves next year when dead cap comes off. This year is more banking on internal improvement, rebound years, and some low risk 1 year gambles. I still think they add another top 9 guy through trade or signing.

 

[North]

One thing I don’t get from Chicago’s end, if they were sour on Jokiharju, why pass on Byram? Does Bowman even know what he’s doing?

 

[Paralyzer008]

Amazing to think on July 9, the only additions are:

Mike Smith
Markus Granlund
Tomas Jurco
Gaetan Haas
Joakim Nygard

I really didn't think we'd be THAT inactive.

 

[Jumptheshark]

we added some players many have no idea what they can do

Haas and Nygard being the top of the list with Jurco and Granland being wild cards and Persson being the joker of the bunch

4 of those players will be in the starting line up game one

 

[CupofOil]

Honestly, you're probably right, but if your organization has two of the best young players in the world on it ready to compete, and the plan is to waste another year of their contracts accomplishing **** all, then I refuse to be happy with it.

It can be the plan, and it might be the best plan for this organization, but until we're at the point of competing, I'm going to be critical of every single move this organization makes, because that's what they deserve after 10+ years of icing the worst product in all of professional sports.

If Holland is going to spend this summer sitting on his hands, handing out PTO's and signing fourth liners, then fans have every right to be pissed off to start next season. Like i said, he knew the position he was signing up for, if he wasn't ready to pull off a miracle, then he has to know he's going to get **** on until he does.

We all made fun of MacT when he said "next year will be a development year" but looking back, at least he was being honest about his intentions going into that season after all the nonsensical "BOLD" talk prior to that.
I'd respect Holland more if he just came straight out and said that next season would be a development year instead of blowing smoke up our arses as if we're a clueless fanbase saying that he's going to make moves to make this a playoff competitive team next season then follow up with all these lateral moves thereafter.

Sorry Ken, we're not fooled into believing that a bottom 7 team with a massively negative goal differential that bought out one of their more steady defenders and did nothing but shuffle marginal player for marginal player is going to compete for a playoff spot next season. Just call it what it is, it's a development year to see what we have in some of the young players and the faint hope that some tweeners massively overachieve. The fans might not like a GM admitting that but at least it's an honest approach.

 

[Soundwave]

we added some players many have no idea what they can do

Haas and Nygard being the top of the list with Jurco and Granland being wild cards and Persson being the joker of the bunch

4 of those players will be in the starting line up game one

That's not a good thing.

 

[Soundwave]

I know a lot of people aren't a fan of Gregor here (admittedly I don't mind him), but his "How Will The Edmonton Oilers Improve" article, particularly part 2 (talking about offense), is reasonable. It's literally impossible for the bottom 6 to be as unproductive as it was last year. I think Holland and Co. are feeling this as well, hence the focus on fairly reasonable gambles (Granlund being the "proven" one) to improve the production.

As @Little Fury has mentioned, the plan seems to be to make any significant moves next year when dead cap comes off. This year is more banking on internal improvement, rebound years, and some low risk 1 year gambles. I still think they add another top 9 guy through trade or signing.

Wasn't the "it's literally impossible for it to happen again" also the logic used to show why Lucic's at the time unbelievable cold streak for the 2nd half of the 2017-18 season simply wouldn't replicate for 2018-19 ... but then it did and got even worse actually? lol.

 

[Jumptheshark]

That's not a good thing.

I meant as part of the 20 man roster--not part of the starting six

 

[Beerfish]

our inaction is directly linked to that fact we have no real cap space

we have 3.93 in cap space--we need to think about bonuses of both Smith and Bouchard(if he makes the team) or Yamamoto

we are in a situation where we can not have carry over penalties due to going over the cap

we are also 48/50 against the contract cap

For me, people screaming about not adding certain players--for every player we add we need to send one out and we need realize that the players we want to move out no one wants

It is not a matter of Holland not knowing player X was available--but are ability to move someone out the other team wants and that not a player we do not want to move

we have had many rants about trading either Nuge or Nurse--if not them then who?

the only phone call I think should be made is Gagner to the sens with a 3rd for either a B prospect or a 2nd? Dunno I can see both Manning and Gagner being moved with a pick before the start of the season

other teams are not going to do us favours just because

while some view Holland's inactivity as a bad thing--we have only handed out 1 or 2 year contracts--they players many of us wanted got 4 and 5 year deals and those deals could turn out very bad--

Due to the cap--we needed to take a pause and it will be all our prospects that feel the weight of the fact we are still in cap hell--

we will find out if some are as good as some of us hope

Why did we hire a Gm and give him 5 million year if the next two to three years the idea was to do nothing and let bad contracts expire?

Once again Holland is Tambo but we are just paying him 5 mill a year to sign grade C free agents and do nothing.

Now, doing nothing might be the thing we have to do, but I'd rather not give a guy 5 mill a year to do nothing.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Why did we hire a Gm and give him 5 million year if the next two to three years the idea was to do nothing and let bad contracts expire?

Once again Holland is Tambo but we are just paying him 5 mill a year to sign grade C free agents and do nothing.

Now, doing nothing might be the thing we have to do, but I'd rather not give a guy 5 mill a year to do nothing.

Holland is not Tambo

many many years ago I started a thread discussing the fact teams could not get a return call from Tambo and that there was no communication between Tambo and the other teams--Holland and Gretz are very communicative

we are in cap hell and he has done nothing to screw us up more--that is an actual positive thing

 

[CycloneSweep]

Why did we hire a Gm and give him 5 million year if the next two to three years the idea was to do nothing and let bad contracts expire?

Once again Holland is Tambo but we are just paying him 5 mill a year to sign grade C free agents and do nothing.

Now, doing nothing might be the thing we have to do, but I'd rather not give a guy 5 mill a year to do nothing.

If it's the right thing to do then who cares what Katz is paying the guy. The other option who he may of paid 2 mill may have tried to make splashes and made things worse.

Holland is getting paid 5 mill to do the right thing for the long term success of the organization. If that ends up being holding tight this year, then it's money well spent.

We won't know however until a few years from now if it was the right plan or not.

 

[belair]

We all made fun of MacT when he said "next year will be a development year" but looking back, at least he was being honest about his intentions going into that season after all the nonsensical "BOLD" talk prior to that.
I'd respect Holland more if he just came straight out and said that next season would be a development year instead of blowing smoke up our arses as if we're a clueless fanbase saying that he's going to make moves to make this a playoff competitive team next season then follow up with all these lateral moves thereafter.

Sorry Ken, we're not fooled into believing that a bottom 7 team with a massively negative goal differential that bought out one of their more steady defenders and did nothing but shuffle marginal player for marginal player is going to compete for a playoff spot next season. Just call it what it is, it's a development year to see what we have in some of the young players and the faint hope that some tweeners massively overachieve. The fans might not like a GM admitting that but at least it's an honest approach.

The funny part was how he was 'developing' a gigantic turd. His team was bereft of prospect depth and was moving from coach to coach while half-assedly addressing the glaring holes on defense.

It's been beaten to death at this point, but taking the team out of the hands of the OBC brought life to our development system after two full decades of legitimate scorched Earth.

 

[Beerfish]

Holland is not Tambo

many many years ago I started a thread discussing the fact teams could not get a return call from Tambo and that there was no communication between Tambo and the other teams--Holland and Gretz are very communicative

we are in cap hell and he has done nothing to screw us up more--that is an actual positive thing

In the end the results are all that matter no? Tambo had bad contracts he had to get rid of and he signed tier C free agents trying to get the team competitive. Holland is doing the exact same thing. Until Holland makes a big move one way or the other. (Shed cap, get a really good player or, shed players and get picks).

Holland has done zero so far, he has not shed cap meaningfully. He has not added picks or prospects, he has not gotten a guy that can legit help the team next year. He is Tambo.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Shooting percentages:

McDavid 17%
Draisaitl 21.6%
RNH 13.5%
Chiasson 17.9%
Kassian 13.5%
Lucic 8.1%
Khaira 4.7%
Gagner 9.8%
Brodziak 8.1%
Granlund 9.8%
Cave 5%


Math wise, I don't see the potential to grow from the current group of vets. Khaira/Cave might get luckier for a couple, but Lucic/Brodziak/Gagner/Granlund aren't elite shooting talents already and Draisaitl/Chiasson had stretches where literally everything went in, so they could even see reductions.

The Oilers whole plan to get more goals would be Nygard, Haas + any youngsters (Benson/Marody) - they'd have to out perform Rieder (easy), Puljujarvi (doable) and Caggiula (actually harder considering he was at 14% shooting or so) PLUS they'd have to score more than last year's group anyways.

 

[3IR]

If it's the right thing to do then who cares what Katz is paying the guy. The other option who he may of paid 2 mill may have tried to make splashes and made things worse.

Holland is getting paid 5 mill to do the right thing for the long term success of the organization. If that ends up being holding tight this year, then it's money well spent.

We won't know however until a few years from now if it was the right plan or not.

To be honest, I don't understand the Holland signing if the goal is to have long term success.

The guy is 63, and you could literally hire anyone to do what he's been doing. Why not go for a younger candidate who over the course of the year or two of minimal action, can build some rapport with the other GMs of the league? Not like you can't tell any GM not to chase high end free agents.

I understand Holland already has a reputation throughout the league, but why does it make sense to Katz to pay him 5m a year to sit on his hands?

Again, I'm trying not to sound like I'm hating on Holland here, this org just deserves to be questioned.

 

[Soundwave]

Holland is not Tambo

many many years ago I started a thread discussing the fact teams could not get a return call from Tambo and that there was no communication between Tambo and the other teams--Holland and Gretz are very communicative

we are in cap hell and he has done nothing to screw us up more--that is an actual positive thing

He needs to get a deal done with Brassard or Ferland ... or at the very least Vanek or Maroon.

None of these deals require long term cap commitment most likely, just having cap room for the sake of having it while the roster lanquishes in actual NHL games is meaningless.

I can understand not wanting to sign 4-6 year deals, but if some of these guys can be had on 1-2 year deals ... c'mon Holland, get off your ass and get something done.

 

[belair]

Shooting percentages:

McDavid 17%
Draisaitl 21.6%
RNH 13.5%
Chiasson 17.9%
Kassian 13.5%
Lucic 8.1%
Khaira 4.7%
Gagner 9.8%
Brodziak 8.1%
Granlund 9.8%
Cave 5%


Math wise, I don't see the potential to grow from the current group of vets. Khaira/Cave might get luckier for a couple, but Lucic/Brodziak/Gagner/Granlund aren't elite shooting talents already and Draisaitl/Chiasson had stretches where literally everything went in, so they could even see reductions.

The Oilers whole plan to get more goals would be Nygard, Haas + any youngsters (Benson/Marody) - they'd have to out perform Rieder (easy), Puljujarvi (doable) and Caggiula (actually harder considering he was at 14% shooting or so) PLUS they'd have to score more than last year's group anyways.

Wait till you see the shot generation. Adam Larsson was seventh on the team last season.

 

[CycloneSweep]

In the end the results are all that matter no? Tambo had bad contracts he had to get rid of and he signed tier C free agents trying to get the team competitive. Holland is doing the exact same thing. Until Holland makes a big move one way or the other. (Shed cap, get a really good player or, shed players and get picks).

Holland has done zero so far, he has not shed cap meaningfully. He has not added picks or prospects, he has not gotten a guy that can legit help the team next year. He is Tambo.

But results matter, you said so yourself.

Tambo did little and the team performed horribly. Holland has done little and his team hasn't played a game yet. Unill the games have been played we honestly don't know if what he did was good or not. Winnipeg did nothing after a shit year and then were suddenly a good playoff team.

Maybe Holland truly believes some of our youth is ready to make an impact and they will. Until the games were played we don't know if the lack of action was a success or a failure.

Cause as you said, results matter.