Prospect Info: Round 4, Pick 104: Mikhail Vorobyov, C, Tolpar Ufa (MHL --> KHL)

[GapToothedWonder]

The prospect mine is littered with dead canaries. It's a canary meat grinder.

The Verdun of the canary world.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Verdun of the canary world.

Canary Holodomor.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Canary Holodomor.

A canary pogrom really. They should have know to be drafted somewhere else, like a labor camp in soviet Siberia.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A canary pogrom really. They should have know to be drafted somewhere else, like a labor camp in soviet Siberia.

Red Army was decent at development.

 

[Stizzle]

 

[FLYguy3911]

Forgot one.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I, for one, am shocked - SHOCKED - that he is turning out to be a good player after failing miserably with all of the very many legitimate chances he was given here to shine. This is a shocking development.

 

[deadhead]

Let's not get carried away, the KHL is a notch above the AHL, but it's not the NHL.
And the stats show what we already know, he's a plus passer but a mediocre skater.
The only change is he seems to be far more defensively responsible, probably b/c in his 2nd KHL season, it was made clear to him that was required to get PT.

How good is the KHL?
Lehtera, last two seasons combined, 86g 19-64 83 +19.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

This are all fake news. He cant hit and isnt hard to play against. So he isnt useful ever. All hockey ouchthentics would say that. Stop crawl out of you fancy stats holes and make all these softies and smOlies useful players.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

I, for one, am shocked - SHOCKED - that he is turning out to be a good player after failing miserably with all of the very many legitimate chances he was given here to shine. This is a shocking development.

He pimped his life. We have known it long ago!

 

[Appleyard]

Let's not get carried away, the KHL is a notch above the AHL, but it's not the NHL.
And the stats show what we already know, he's a plus passer but a mediocre skater.
The only change is he seems to be far more defensively responsible, probably b/c in his 2nd KHL season, it was made clear to him that was required to get PT.

How good is the KHL?
Lehtera, last two seasons combined, 86g 19-64 83 +19.

Without cherrypicking players we know that, approximately, the KHL is ~75-80% of the league the NHL is. There is a loooot of transfer between the two with like 70 North Americans playing there and another 70 Euros who have played NHL.

It is closer to the NHL than AHL.

Now, is his game suited for North America? The footspeed is an issue.

BUT he has massively improved in all areas over the last 2 years, even within the KHL.
Last year he was a mediocre bottom sixer, now he is one of the premier 2-way middle sixers in the league.

That being said, odds are if came back next year and managed to not get on a coaches bad side? (being big but not physical as well as favouring carries over chip and chase)

He would be a 30-35 point 3rd liner at best.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I'm not defending AV or anything like that, but is this really that big of a deal? He played for the Phantoms for two years and went to the KHL (I honestly don't remember why, if that was his choice or they sent him there because they were essentially giving up on him), but it looks like he is playing ok in the KHL, not exactly a crazy development. He played ok in the AHL too. Maybe I'm missing something but is someone being a second liner in the KHL indicative of an NHL future? On his own team there are guys his age putting up better points than he is, are these guys we should target to come over here? Andre Kuzmenko is 25 and leading the team in points and doesn't appear to be under NHL control...maybe we just sign him and forget about Vorobyov?

 

[Stizzle]

Without cherrypicking players we know that, approximately, the KHL is ~75-80% of the league the NHL is. There is a loooot of transfer between the two with like 70 North Americans playing there and another 70 Euros who have played NHL.

It is closer to the NHL than AHL.

Now, is his game suited for North America? The footspeed is an issue.

BUT he has massively improved in all areas over the last 2 years, even within the KHL.
Last year he was a mediocre bottom sixer, now he is one of the premier 2-way middle sixers in the league.

That being said, odds are if came back next year and managed to not get on a coaches bad side? (being big but not physical as well as favouring carries over chip and chase)

He would be a 30-35 point 3rd liner at best.

I always thought his real value in the NHL could come from special teams. He shows his best when the game is condensed to half ice hockey. I definitely agree, the foot speed is an issue. It would hold him back 5v5.

His vision and smarts are his best assets. I legitimately think he can contribute to an NHL powerplay. His short area playmaking is high-end imo. On the PK, he's a pain when parked at the blue line defending zone entries. He uses his length well, and most importantly, his brain/vision to anticipate on the PK.

He has a couple traits that help produce wins. Unfortunately, the Flyers aren't capable of leveraging a player's true value because they're a caveman organization.

 

[deadhead]

Without cherrypicking players we know that, approximately, the KHL is ~75-80% of the league the NHL is. There is a loooot of transfer between the two with like 70 North Americans playing there and another 70 Euros who have played NHL.

It is closer to the NHL than AHL.

Now, is his game suited for North America? The footspeed is an issue.

BUT he has massively improved in all areas over the last 2 years, even within the KHL.
Last year he was a mediocre bottom sixer, now he is one of the premier 2-way middle sixers in the league.

That being said, odds are if came back next year and managed to not get on a coaches bad side? (being big but not physical as well as favouring carries over chip and chase)

He would be a 30-35 point 3rd liner at best.

Question would be would he bring his new found commitment to two way play with him.
It's not like he didn't get chances here, and he not only flopped at the NHL level, he wasn't a star at the AHL level.
You can blame some of that on coaching, but it took two years for him to "buy in" in the KHL, so some is probably on him.

KHL translation factors vary between .62 & .80. so his .46 per game would be more like .28-.37 (does that include PP scoring?) or 22-29 points.
So he'd have to be happy with a 4th line role and be willing to work his way up the lineup to be worth bringing back.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

I'm not defending AV or anything like that, but is this really that big of a deal? He played for the Phantoms for two years and went to the KHL (I honestly don't remember why, if that was his choice or they sent him there because they were essentially giving up on him), but it looks like he is playing ok in the KHL, not exactly a crazy development. He played ok in the AHL too. Maybe I'm missing something but is someone being a second liner in the KHL indicative of an NHL future? On his own team there are guys his age putting up better points than he is, are these guys we should target to come over here? Andre Kuzmenko is 25 and leading the team in points and doesn't appear to be under NHL control...maybe we just sign him and forget about Vorobyov?

Its all about points. And we better play ahl scrubs over actual nhl talent

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Question would be would he bring his new found commitment to two way play with him.
It's not like he didn't get chances here, and he not only flopped at the NHL level, he wasn't a star at the AHL level.
You can blame some of that on coaching, but it took two years for him to "buy in" in the KHL, so some is probably on him.

KHL translation factors vary between .62 & .80. so his .46 per game would be more like .28-.37 (does that include PP scoring?) or 22-29 points.
So he'd have to be happy with a 4th line role and be willing to work his way up the lineup to be worth bringing back.

No one needs to be a star in the ahl to go.to the nhl.

 

[wankstifier]

Question would be would he bring his new found commitment to two way play with him.
It's not like he didn't get chances here, and he not only flopped at the NHL level, he wasn't a star at the AHL level.
You can blame some of that on coaching, but it took two years for him to "buy in" in the KHL, so some is probably on him.

KHL translation factors vary between .62 & .80. so his .46 per game would be more like .28-.37 (does that include PP scoring?) or 22-29 points.
So he'd have to be happy with a 4th line role and be willing to work his way up the lineup to be worth bringing back.

Vorobyov might be a more effective player next season than Laczynski, who’s recovering from surgery. Seen you pencil in the latter

 

[Rebels57]

I, for one, am shocked - SHOCKED - that he is turning out to be a good player after failing miserably with all of the very many legitimate chances he was given here to shine. This is a shocking development.

If you can't succeed on a line with Chris Stewart, you can't succeed with anyone.

 

[dats81]

The problem is that forward prospects are pretty much divided into two groups: top-6 point producers or checking line energy players.
Obvously, Misha didn't tick enough boxes in either category. Players with complex but atypical skillset are more difficult to develop.

 

[Flyerfan18]

35 NHL games is a win for the Flyers. You can’t suggest they didn’t develop him. Very few other 4th rounders in 2015 played any games.

There is a reason he went where he did. Sometimes later in life the lightbulb goes on. For his sake hope it continues

 

[Beef Invictus]

35 NHL games is a win for the Flyers. You can’t suggest they didn’t develop him. Very few other 4th rounders in 2015 played any games.

There is a reason he went where he did. Sometimes later in life the lightbulb goes on. For his sake hope it continues

Considering they don't develop anyone, we can easily suggest they didn't develop him.

 

[Stizzle]

There is a reason he went where he did.

 

[deadhead]

A bottom six forward who's allergic to contact had better be well above average offensively, which he wasn't.
Curious if he has become a more physical, better defensive player in the KHL.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Better than Nate. @whomitmayconcern

 

[Appleyard]

A bottom six forward who's allergic to contact had better be well above average offensively, which he wasn't.
Curious if he has become a more physical, better defensive player in the KHL.

Marcus Kruger was probably the best 4C in NHL in his prime. Would not hurt a fly. Could not really produce much.

Because the overall sum of parts is what matters.

Picking players for roles and stereotypes is stupid in the modern NHL.