Prospect Info: Round 4, Pick 104: Mikhail Vorobyov, C, Tolpar Ufa (MHL --> KHL)

[Appleyard]

What is funny though is his defence at NHL level was fine... after being very good in AHL.

It was his game past the redline that was lacklustre at the highest level.

 

[Rebels57]

I think there is some merit to Misha not being used in a role that suited him best, but he has to understand that is because at no point was he one of the top 3 Centers on the Flyers roster.

The comments about back-checking are pretty stupid.

 

[tymed]

It is worth bearing in mind the cultural differences. In Russian press athletes are a lot more open and direct in general than in the USA, Canada... and even western and central Europe. You could read 100 transcripts of Russian guys from different sports and 75% would come off as "arrogant" if they encountered "negative" questioning.

Now even still some are pretty blunt even asking my ex to interpret them... but the difference does amplify the comments I think.

You make a valid point with cultural blatancy, but it doesn't excuse the value of being humble in a team sport, especially when you're nothing particularly notable.

"But I have a hard time backchecking and playing without the puck. There's an old saying that the best defense is a good offense. If you keep the puck, you don't have to play defense. I'm sticking to playing with the puck more."

This is a fantastic way to get yourself laughed at and brushed off in a real hurry, though. Ain't nobody havin that.

There's just no point in missing the guy at this juncture, off he goes and I wish him the best. What is the likeliness we will have any need for him in 3 years? Almost nothing at all.

 

[TCTC]

I mean, he's a B-level prospect, a 4th round pick. A player like that can't expect the Flyers to make room for him so he can play in the spot he feels comfortable in. He should try everything in his power to take advantage of the opportunity he gets. Many prospects don't get that opportunity.
Instead he doesn't seem to care much about the weaknesses in his game and rather wants to rely on the organization to put him in a position to succeed. Good luck with that.

 

[deadhead]

Last time I checked the KHL was more defensive oriented than the AHL.
So three years there may well force him to become a two way player.
It's not like he's Frost, talented enough offensively that teams might overlook lackluster defense and backchecking.

 

[orangey]

Kind of blunt but I tend to agree on him being a top 9 style of player. Unfortunately that wasn't going to be the case here.

In any case I didn't expect him back before and this kind of confirms it.

 

[Alex K]

It is worth bearing in mind the cultural differences. In Russian press athletes are a lot more open and direct in general than in the USA, Canada... and even western and central Europe. You could read 100 transcripts of Russian guys from different sports and 75% would come off as "arrogant" if they encountered "negative" questioning.

Now even still some are pretty blunt even asking my ex to interpret them... but the difference does amplify the comments I think.

He sounded rather resentful than arrogant.

 

[Striiker]

I'm sure a lot of players are resentful towards coaches for the clear bias and usage mistakes that happen all the time.

It's just that most of them won't say it out loud to the media.

 

[GKJ]

He wasn’t showing signs of being underused. When Gordon wasn’t willing to give him much of a chance last year, that should’ve been the indicator that he needed to impress Vigneault quickly, and it didn’t happen. Opportunities were later presented when Patrick and then Lindblom weren’t around and he got passed both times (speaking of Farabee and Aube-Kubel).

 

[Striiker]

1) Gordon is stupid. His usage and opinions mean nothing.

2) Good luck impressing AV quickly while playing 10 min per game with Stewart. Put Couturier in that spot and even he'd struggle.


(And I say this as someone who has a low opinion of Vorobyev and doesn't want him in the lineup)

 

[Here4ThaLids]

I mean, my initial reaction to reading those quotes was not that he wants to be a lazy, cherry-picking, enigmatic turnstile, but that he doesn't want to play dump-and-chase. More to the point, playing with Stewie = constant backchecking.

Maybe that's me irrationally reading reason into a neutral comment, but even that seems preferable to assuming the 4th rounder who put in the time and earned his stripes in Allentown, USA doesn't want to work. I hope he absolutely lights it up in the K.

 

[Tripod]

I think there is some merit to Misha not being used in a role that suited him best, but he has to understand that is because at no point was he one of the top 3 Centers on the Flyers roster.

The comments about back-checking are pretty stupid.

This is exactly it.

 

[deadhead]

I think Misha will be in for a shock in the KHL, where they play a more disciplined style than Gordon.

He got a fair shot, I mean how many young forwards who aren't uber offensive talents start out in the top 9.
Couts was on the 4th line, Farabee spent some time on the fourth line. NAK, Twarynski, Bunnaman all had 4th line time.
It's not like Vorobyev was burning up the AHL.
10 minutes of 5x5 time a night is more than enough to show you belong, that's about 15 shifts a night.

If you're a big center with average speed you'd better be prepared to play on the fourth line, you're not playing ahead of Laughton and Frost until you prove yourself (and if Patrick was healthy, forget about it).

 

[Starat327]

Just so we're all clear:

10 mins/game is enough to show you belong.
11 games is enough to determine you arent an NHL player
289 games is not enough to determine if you are a bad coach.

 

[Striiker]

Just so we're all clear:

10 mins/game is enough to show you belong.
11 games is enough to determine you arent an NHL player
289 games is not enough to determine if you are a bad coach.

I'm still giddy about the fact that the Leafs have Hak as a coach. He's currently earning the money we paid him for all those years by helping us win games.

 

[deadhead]

Just so we're all clear:

10 mins/game is enough to show you belong.
11 games is enough to determine you arent an NHL player
289 games is not enough to determine if you are a bad coach.

Bad coaches don't get more than 87 points in four years and never make the playoffs.
Hakstol's first three seasons, 96, 88, 98 and 2 playoff appearances during a rebuild.
But some fools actually told me Peters >> Hakstol.
These were the same people who said Berube was a horrible HC, he says you can kiss the ring or kiss his ass.

And y'all wonder why I don't take some of you seriously.

 

[Striiker]

1st season - 18-3-4 - 131 point pace - ***won cup***
2nd - 47-28-7 - 101 points - lost in conference semifinals
3rd - 49-25-8 - 106 points - lost in conference quarterfinals
4th - 51-25-6 - 108 points - lost in conference quarterfinals
5th - 36-12-0 - 123 point pace - lost in conference finals
6th - 51-24-7 - 109 points - lost in 2nd round

Paced for more than 100 points every year, playoffs every time, won a cup.

Would anyone like to argue that Dan Bylsma is a good coach?

 

[Tripod]

Berube was so sought after he went jobless for a year and 3.5 years in between nhl head coaching jobs.

 

[Starat327]

Bad coaches don't get more than 87 points in four years and never make the playoffs.
Hakstol's first three seasons, 96, 88, 98 and 2 playoff appearances during a rebuild.
But some fools actually told me Peters >> Hakstol.
These were the same people who said Berube was a horrible HC, he says you can kiss the ring or kiss his ass.

And y'all wonder why I don't take some of you seriously.

When you have a 'should-have-been' Hart winner carrying your team, and players playing well above their apparent abilities (according to you), then yes, sometimes youll have that. That, and since half the league makes the playoffs, getting there shouldnt be your measuring stick for a good coach. If it is, get a new stick.

Ive never concerned myself with if you take my seriously or not, because I can't take your hockey opinions serious, either. Mostly because they contradict each other when youre given enough time to dig yourself into a hole.

Your social commentary in the Coronavirus threads though?? Keep those coming.

 

[FLYguy3911]

These translations are nice to read but I don't think they should be interpreted 1 for 1.

 

[deadhead]

When you have a 'should-have-been' Hart winner carrying your team, and players playing well above their apparent abilities (according to you), then yes, sometimes youll have that. That, and since half the league makes the playoffs, getting there shouldnt be your measuring stick for a good coach. If it is, get a new stick.

Ive never concerned myself with if you take my seriously or not, because I can't take your hockey opinions serious, either. Mostly because they contradict each other when youre given enough time to dig yourself into a hole.

Your social commentary in the Coronavirus threads though?? Keep those coming.

Those teams were paper thin, I mean all I heard for five years was a litany of complaint about a dozen players who shouldn't be on the roster - but somehow a real coach would have gotten 110 points and into the SC finals with them?

Between 2012-2018, the Flyers had one decent goalie for three years who choked in the POs (Mason) and five forwards, Couts, G (when he was healthy), Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn (until he was traded). On defense they had Provorov, Streit for a couple seasons, Ghost for 2 seasons and a cast of thousands (AMac, Gudas, MDZ, Grossman, L Schenn, Manning, Hagg et al). They struggled to put together two solid lines and two pairs of defensemen.

To make the playoffs three times with a team that thin is an accomplishment.

Now I don't think Hasktol was a great coach, my opinion is similar to Appleyard, he had some strengths and some weaknesses that made him a middle of the pack coach. Same with Berube. Given them the right talent they can win, but they're not going to perform miracles.

Peters however was a failure in Carolina (Brind'Amour immediately turned that team around), and a disaster in Calgary.

As far as Bylsma, sometimes good coaching is simply not screwing up a good thing.
He jump started them in 2008-09 and won a Cup.
And didn't get in their way, you could claim his problem in the playoffs was less coaching than Fleury being a head case:
2009-10: .891 S%
2010-11: .899 S%
2011-12: .834 S%
2012-13: .883 S%
2013-14: .915 S% , lose 2nd rd in 7 games to AV
Johnston takes over, 10 less points than the season before
2014-15: .927 S%, but still lose in the 1st rd
Sullivan takes over from Johnston mid-season, Murray .923 S% in the playoffs, win Cup
2016-17: Fleury .924, Murray .937 S% in the playoffs, win another Cup
2017-18: Murray .907 S% and they lose to the Caps in the 2nd rd

Maybe it's more about a hot goalie in the playoffs than brilliant coaching?

 

[Starat327]

Those teams were paper thin, I mean all I heard for five years was a litany of complaint about a dozen players who shouldn't be on the roster - but somehow a real coach would have gotten 110 points and into the SC finals with them?

Between 2012-2018, the Flyers had one decent goalie for three years who choked in the POs (Mason) and five forwards, Couts, G (when he was healthy), Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn (until he was traded). On defense they had Provorov, Streit for a couple seasons, Ghost for 2 seasons and a cast of thousands (AMac, Gudas, MDZ, Grossman, L Schenn, Manning, Hagg et al). They struggled to put together two solid lines and two pairs of defensemen.

To make the playoffs three times with a team that thin is an accomplishment.

Now I don't think Hasktol was a great coach, my opinion is similar to Appleyard, he had some strengths and some weaknesses that made him a middle of the pack coach. Same with Berube. Given them the right talent they can win, but they're not going to perform miracles.

Peters however was a failure in Carolina (Brind'Amour immediately turned that team around), and a disaster in Calgary.

As far as Bylsma, sometimes good coaching is simply not screwing up a good thing.
He jump started them in 2008-09 and won a Cup.
And didn't get in their way, you could claim his problem in the playoffs was less coaching than Fleury being a head case:
2009-10: .891 S%
2010-11: .899 S%
2011-12: .834 S%
2012-13: .883 S%
2013-14: .915 S% , lose 2nd rd in 7 games to AV
Johnston takes over, 10 less points than the season before
2014-15: .927 S%, but still lose in the 1st rd
Sullivan takes over from Johnston mid-season, Murray .923 S% in the playoffs, win Cup
2016-17: Fleury .924, Murray .937 S% in the playoffs, win another Cup
2017-18: Murray .907 S% and they lose to the Caps in the 2nd rd

Maybe it's more about a hot goalie in the playoffs than brilliant coaching?

This went exactly where I expected it to go. Instead of addressing the actual topic being debated (that 289 games wasn't enough to judge him), you go off on some dissertation length extrapolation if why the team was bad, and how it wasnt his fault. Mostly because, well, you know that 289 games HAS to be enough to judge him, but admitting so would go against what you've said before - that he didn't have enough time.

Then again, by going on this rant about how he got the results and comparing him to his peers, you are already admitting to the fact that he CAN be judged. Dug yourself right into it - again.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

Bad coaches don't get more than 87 points in four years and never make the playoffs.
Hakstol's first three seasons, 96, 88, 98 and 2 playoff appearances during a rebuild.
But some fools actually told me Peters >> Hakstol.
These were the same people who said Berube was a horrible HC, he says you can kiss the ring or kiss his ass.

And y'all wonder why I don't take some of you seriously.

- *Looks to see lowest point total Hakstol achieved while Flyers' head coach [= 88]* "87 points is the dividing line between good and bad coaches."

- *Omits Hakstol's final, aborted season in which his team earned 28 points in 31 games.*

- Bill Peters never bested 87 points with Carolina, but he coached a 107-point team in Calgary. "Y'all come at the king, y'all best not miss."

- *Stans for Berube, who only paced for 82 points in the season that other team won the Cup* "Team accomplishments, y'all!"

Thank you for the commitment, haven't laughed this hard since the pandemic started.

 

[CSKA1974]

These translations are nice to read but I don't think they should be interpreted 1 for 1.

@FLYguy3911 As one of the "unofficial" Russian translators on this site, I would like to ask a sincere question: how would you like to see them translated?

Other than "close to the source" translation would introduce translator's bias and add flaws to the original text. I agree that some stylistic impurities could be adjusted to the North American reader, however, I would suggest to do so as a comment. That way there will be no distortion in the original information.

Also, neither @Alex K , nor @Appleyard's ex, nor I are native English speakers and/ or professional translators, we are just happy to provide this fandom with the information it would not have otherwise.

But back to the original question- I am truly all open for suggestions and would possibly change my translations if the suggestions are doable. We can take this conversation off line (via private messaging) if you wish.

 

[deadhead]

This went exactly where I expected it to go. Instead of addressing the actual topic being debated (that 289 games wasn't enough to judge him), you go off on some dissertation length extrapolation if why the team was bad, and how it wasnt his fault. Mostly because, well, you know that 289 games HAS to be enough to judge him, but admitting so would go against what you've said before - that he didn't have enough time.

Then again, by going on this rant about how he got the results and comparing him to his peers, you are already admitting to the fact that he CAN be judged. Dug yourself right into it - again.

No, I judged him, you just didn't like my conclusion or the facts backing it up.

Note that when things fell apart for Hakstol, it was with historically bad goaltending.

That Calgary team that got 107 points lost in the first round of the playoffs, despite Mike Smith putting up a .917 S% (guess Peters was outcoached?) then imploded the next season.