Prospect Info: Round 2, Pick 52, Wade Allison, RW, Tri-City (USHL)

[deadhead]

I'll reserve judgment, not sure about the skating, but with big guys that can take longer, I want someone who skates better than Hartnell or even Simmons, in today's NHL, even the power forwards have to be able to move and show lateral agility. The concern (and this extends to Morin) with big guys with powerful strides is acceleration and quickness - you don't get to skate 100 feet in a straight line that often.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I guess I'll be the skeptic. Allison's stats for his age in the USHL aren't great for a 52nd overall selection, at least as far as projecting a potential top 2 line scorer.

But I'm happy to hear he went on a tear in the 2nd half and was the playoff MVP, and performed well in skills testing -- maybe he's a late blooming power forward. It happens.

 

[Curufinwe]

Pretty funny seeing you make basically the same complaint in half the prospect pick threads.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I made the same complaint about 3 players -- Allison, Twarynski, and Bunnaman. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just would've liked more offensive production for their ages / levels of play for picks 52, 82, and 109. Not a big fan of limited offensive upside pluggers in the first 4 rounds, especially if they don't have blazing speed. Otherwise, love the draft.

 

[kudymen]

Riser, questionable hockey IQ, legit power forward.

Questionable barber picking IQ

 

[Curufinwe]

Allison doesn't have limited offensive upside and is not a plugger.

 

[Striiker]

Allison shouldn't be compared to those other two...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Certainly I think Allison has more offensive talent than Twarynski and Bunnaman, but for #52 overall his offensive output for his age in the USHL wasn't great. Seems more likely to be a future grinder. But like I said, could be a late blooming power forward. Scouts seem to like some of his tools.

 

[Striiker]

Certainly I think Allison has more offensive talent than Twarynski and Bunnaman, but for #52 overall his offensive output for his age in the USHL wasn't great. Seems more likely to be a future grinder. But like I said, could be a late blooming power forward. Scouts seem to like some of his tools.

Could be a similar situation to Sanheim... slow start and then super hot second half that's a far better representation of his skill. He said he had some minor injuries and confidence problems in the first half, that could be what slowed him.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

You're buying the tools and the fact he looks like he taking the next steps in his development, not just points.

Good thing the the staff isn't worried about points or we wouldn't have Sanheim or Myers.

 

[sa cyred]

Certainly I think Allison has more offensive talent than Twarynski and Bunnaman, but for #52 overall his offensive output for his age in the USHL wasn't great. Seems more likely to be a future grinder. But like I said, could be a late blooming power forward. Scouts seem to like some of his tools.

You need to remember, for the first 25-30 games, he wasnt very good. Finished the last 30 games or so (including playoffs) top notch.

He does that the whole season? Easily a 1st rounder

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're buying the tools and the fact he looks like he taking the next steps in his development, not just points.

Good thing the the staff isn't worried about points or we wouldn't have Sanheim or Myers.

Well, Myers was an undrafted FA not a 52nd overall pick, and Sanheim dominated the WHL the season he was 18, whereas Allison was 18 for most of this season and didn't notch a point per game in the lesser USHL as a forward. Also Sanheim could skate like the wind, and Allison can't.

So there are some differences.

That said -- I repeatedly acknowledge scouts like Allison's tools and he could be a late bloomer. Not completely writing him off. Just expressing a little skepticism at 52. (The guy was ranked 192 by CS among North Americans at midseason, and Pronman isn't a huge fan, so even for those who disagree I don't think some skepticism is totally indefensible.)

 

[Random Forest]

Certainly I think Allison has more offensive talent than Twarynski and Bunnaman, but for #52 overall his offensive output for his age in the USHL wasn't great. Seems more likely to be a future grinder. But like I said, could be a late blooming power forward. Scouts seem to like some of his tools.

Even if I buy your points-only argument, you seem to have a faulty perception of USHL scoring figures. Draft eligible players don't generally torch that league with prolific points per game numbers.

Including playoffs, Allison had 63 points in 67 games. That's exactly what you'd expect of a second round pick. Especially one whose game is valued on his style of play rather than gaudy figures. For example, that's right in line with a player like Forsbacka-Karlsson who went 45th last year. Were you expecting a second round pick to have numbers like Kyle Connor or Brock Boeser?

 

[FLYguy3911]

First I think we should mention the USHL is a much much lower scoring league than any of the 3 CHL leagues.

Goals per game:

QMJHL 6.83
OHL 6.79
WHL 6.50
---------------
USHL 5.91

So comparing his PPG to CHLers is silly. Provorov's USHL scoring rate tripled when he went to the WHL. If Allison does in fact go to Brandon and plays with Nolan Patrick he could flirt with 100 points.

Allison's ES production was very good for a player of his age (Laczynski is up there as well). Only two 2016 draft eligibles had a higher ES points per game average. Go a little further only one 2016 draft eligible player (Cam Morrison) had a better ES primary point per game average (he's not padding his stats with secondary assists). Among 2016 draft eligibles Allison had the most ES goals per game in the USHL.

He didn't produce on the PP in the regular season. He only had 8 PP points (4 goals, 3 primary assists, 1 secondary assist) that's why he doesn't have a gaudy statline. Is that the players fault or is that a deployment issue?

He had 9 goals in 11 playoff games. Next highest total was 5.

You can dislike the pick for a number of reasons but I'm not sure pointing to his statline should be one.

 

[Striiker]

I'd be extremely surprised if he went to Brandon after the things he said about the college he committed to. Sounds like he's determined to go there.

 

[GKJ]

I get more excited the more I hear about him.

 

[tymed]

My favorite pick so far. I've got lots of looking around to do but Wade Allison can play hockey.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I'd be extremely surprised if he went to Brandon after the things he said about the college he committed to. Sounds like he's determined to go there.

We'll see, Brandon's gonna turn up the heat on him this summer to get him there next year. The Flyers will probably end up being the key decider at the end of the day though. If they don't view him as a longer term development guy an NHL contract would very likely sway his mind & have him in Brandon next year. That's usually the key in these situations as it's hard to turn down an NHL contract.

 

[Striiker]

We'll see, Brandon's gonna turn up the heat on him this summer to get him there next year. The Flyers will probably end up being the key decider at the end of the day though. If they don't view him as a longer term development guy an NHL contract would very likely sway his mind & have him in Brandon next year. That's usually the key in these situations as it's hard to turn down an NHL contract.

True, you never know what could happen if different people are pushing and pulling him towards different places. I'm just saying it sounds like he's heavily leaning towards college and it'd take a significant voice in his ear to sway him away from it. I guess you could call an NHL franchise a significant voice.

Not gonna lie, I don't pay much attention to the development leagues other than catching an occasional game and stat watching... so would we rather have him in the CHL or college? Which would be better for him/us? (From a development standpoint)

 

[Random Forest]

I'd have to say I would MUCH prefer he go to Brandon and have a good season playing with Nolan Patrick than go to Western Michigan. He has a lot more to gain playing a pro schedule and learning how to develop his offensive game.

If he were going to a school like BU, I might hesitate, but even then, I still think he gets a lot more out of the WHL. I don't think that for all players either, but I really think Allison's a guy who could use a year of learning what he's capable of doing physically at the major junior level.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

First I think we should mention the USHL is a much much lower scoring league than any of the 3 CHL leagues.

Goals per game:

QMJHL 6.83
OHL 6.79
WHL 6.50
---------------
USHL 5.91

So comparing his PPG to CHLers is silly. Provorov's USHL scoring rate tripled when he went to the WHL. If Allison does in fact go to Brandon and plays with Nolan Patrick he could flirt with 100 points.

Allison's ES production was very good for a player of his age (Laczynski is up there as well). Only two 2016 draft eligibles had a higher ES points per game average. Go a little further only one 2016 draft eligible player (Cam Morrison) had a better ES primary point per game average (he's not padding his stats with secondary assists). Among 2016 draft eligibles Allison had the most ES goals per game in the USHL.

He didn't produce on the PP in the regular season. He only had 8 PP points (4 goals, 3 primary assists, 1 secondary assist) that's why he doesn't have a gaudy statline. Is that the players fault or is that a deployment issue?

He had 9 goals in 11 playoff games. Next highest total was 5.

You can dislike the pick for a number of reasons but I'm not sure pointing to his statline should be one.

The USHL might have a lower goals per game average, but isn't it also generally considered to have less talent than the the three CHL leagues?

Allison was 18 for almost the entire USHL season. Shouldn't at that age in the USHL, for the 52nd pick, he do better than under a point per game against what is overall weaker competition than 18 year olds in the CHL? (and his stats were woeful the season before for being 17 almost the entire season).

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. I will continue to be skeptical about Allison's offensive upside, but willing to keep an open mind that he's a late bloomer and not Pat Kavanagh.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Holy ****. I didn't realize how bad WMU was last year. Definitely should temper expectations for Allison next year. If McCrimmon can't convince former Wheat King Ron Hextall to this kid to Brandon, he should hang em up.

 

[Gsus]

If he were going to a school like BU, I might hesitate, but even then, I still think he gets a lot more out of the WHL. I don't think that for all players either, but I really think Allison's a guy who could use a year of learning what he's capable of doing physically at the major junior level.

I agree. For taking the next step it would be good for him to play some major junior hockey. He develops more when playing against more like his level of competition. And with Nolan Patrick he would have a great chance.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Not gonna lie, I don't pay much attention to the development leagues other than catching an occasional game and stat watching... so would we rather have him in the CHL or college? Which would be better for him/us? (From a development standpoint)

I honestly really couldn't tell you as the USHL doesn't have the all around publicity like the CHL does for obvious reasons (especially when you take out the US Program) so it's a lot harder to track these guys. Western Michigan isn't exactly a power program while Brandon's one of the better clubs in the WHL/CHL. So it really depends on where he's at in his development. If he's someone who can be fast tracked I don't think it's really a question as to who's the better program here (Brandon).

Michael McCarron was probably the last big recruit for WMU. He was a prospect who probably was better suited for the college route but Montreal wasn't having any of that. They even had to jump through some hoops to get his rights switched from Belleville to London in the OHL as the former was one of the worst programs in the league.

 

[Winston Wolf]

I know I've mentioned it a few times, but there's a connection between his college coach and the Flyers (and the Kings.) Holmgren and the rest of the management know Andy Murray very well and I'm sure Hextall does, too.

I know the Flyers prefer the CHL over everything, but I'm not sure if they'd push him away from a coach with so much NHL experience. Western Michigan obviously doesn't have a track record of pumping out a ton of NHLers, but it's not like they're recruiting many high draft picks.