Prospect Info: Round 2, Pick 35: Isaac Ratcliffe, LW, Guelph (OHL)

[Magua]

I still believe. 6’6 players don’t grow on trees. They are the trees.

 

[captainpaxil]

Been hearing for years All this talent on the phantoms. When does it come to fruition? Strome also due to break out..//

We are probably the deepest at the NHL level we've been in years with two or three spots changing hands if any of these prospects live up to the hype. Then that's when the real competition begins.
With g up at the end of the year and jvr next Radcliffe really needs to show something.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Been hearing for years All this talent on the phantoms. When does it come to fruition? Strome also due to break out..//

Drafting has never been a problem. Player development on the other hand.......

 

[rinaldo]

Drafting has never been a problem. Player development on the other hand.......

Can’t just fault development when a player doesn’t pan out. They made bad picks along the way

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Ratcliffe was always a project, big guys tend to take longer to arrive, but he's only 22, he's reportedly up to 225 lbs which means he's strong enough (and heavy enough) to settle in the high danger zone near the net, and has the shot to take advantage of that positioning.
Between injuries and COVID, he basically missed a year of development.
But it's way too early to write him off, he'll have the talent around him for a breakout season at LHV.

he may very well be strong enough. Is he willing enough. Not everyone is willing to take the pounding around the net

 

[rinaldo]

We are probably the deepest at the NHL level we've been in years with two or three spots changing hands if any of these prospects live up to the hype. Then that's when the real competition begins.
With g up at the end of the year and jvr next Radcliffe really needs to show something.

Well I doubt some live up to the hf flyers Board hype…..shit some already stars before playing a half season.

Isaac as u said needs to show a lot of progress on all areas. Like JOB he is out of site out of mind at this point

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nobody is considered a star with half a season.

Wanting to give someone a chance to prove themselves because they're also almost certainly better than players on the roster is not nearly the same as considering them stars.

 

[rinaldo]

Frostky is already a legend. Future stud

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Can’t just fault development when a player doesn’t pan out. They made bad picks along the way

Certainly that's a factor. But in the grand scheme of things right now, the biggest issue has been player development. It's been fire wagon hockey in Lehigh Valley with no structure what so ever. If there's structure and a development path and plan in place, then you've got something. When the game plan is "play not to lose" and everything is built around veteran players on the farm team, you're going to fail in player development. You want to know why Tampa Bay is so good at player development? They know that the veterans on the farm team are there to compliment the youth, not vice versa. The youth are given every chance to make the big club and are there to be groomed for the big club. The veterans are there because either it's the end of the line, salary related issues or they simply aren't good enough/tweeners.

 

[rinaldo]

Certainly that's a factor. But in the grand scheme of things right now, the biggest issue has been player development. It's been fire wagon hockey in Lehigh Valley with no structure what so ever. If there's structure and a development path and plan in place, then you've got something. When the game plan is "play not to lose" and everything is built around veteran players on the farm team, you're going to fail in player development. You want to know why Tampa Bay is so good at player development? They know that the veterans on the farm team are there to compliment the youth, not vice versa. The youth are given every chance to make the big club and are there to be groomed for the big club. The veterans are there because either it's the end of the line, salary related issues or they simply aren't good enough/tweeners.

Bottom line is it comes down to talent in the end. There is no great conspiracy or sabotage when a player doesn’t make it. How many prospects leave here then flourish elsewhere? So maybe just maybe it’s the drafting that is a bigger issue.

Now that doesn’t let the player development part off the hook by any means. Absolutely they can improve. Winning should not be the main goal of your farm team in any way. $$ drives that However if you don’t own your farm team. Just gets old reading how the flyers failed so and so. Maybe the player just failed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Bottom line is it comes down to talent in the end. There is no great conspiracy or sabotage when a player doesn’t make it. How many prospects leave here then flourish elsewhere? So maybe just maybe it’s the drafting that is a bigger issue.

Now that doesn’t let the player development part off the hook by any means. Absolutely they can improve. Winning should not be the main goal of your farm team in any way. $$ drives that However if you don’t own your farm team. Just gets old reading how the flyers failed so and so. Maybe the player just failed.

By the time players leave here they're already pretty well ruined.

 

[rinaldo]

By the time players leave here they're already pretty well ruined.

Absolutely. All the organizations fault. They have conspired to ruin the careers of dozens of players. At least you are consistent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Absolutely. All the organizations fault. They have conspired to ruin the careers of dozens of players. At least you are consistent.

Strawman.

 

[rinaldo]

Strawman.

Go flyers

 

[GapToothedWonder]

"Rimaldo has really been coming out in force these last few weeks. Love to see the intensity out there. Those are the sort of low IQ event, glue posters that you need to develop good board chemistry in the room." - hockey dinosaurs, probably.

 

[rinaldo]

"Rimaldo has really been coming out in force these last few weeks. Love to see the intensity out there. Those are the sort of low IQ event, glue posters that you need to develop good board chemistry in the room." - hockey dinosaurs, probably.

Tell it like it is stronzo

 

[Magua]

Forum Rules Reminder (Trolling, Flaming, and Threadjacking)

 

[Asnito]

Why are we still talking about Ratcliff at this point he's pretty much a bust. The only chance he has of being a regular in the NHL is on the 4th line as a big physical winger who could help out on the PK. He's soft as butter and should have been included in the Ghost trade so we didn't have to give up a 2nd.

 

[deadhead]

he may very well be strong enough. Is he willing enough. Not everyone is willing to take the pounding around the net

That's why a lot of players need a couple years in the AHL, the CHL isn't very physical, playing against 16-19 year olds. It's a shock making that jump, especially for younger players, Millman at 19 wasn't ready, for example, but it was a good off season motivator.

I think Ratcliffe was bigger than his peers in the CHL, so he never really had to focus on leverage or the need to work hard to add strength, but playing in the AHL at 6'6 210 puts you at the mercy of 6'1 200 veterans who know how to use leverage (and to cheat). So now we'll see if he can adjust. At 6'6 225 he should be hard to move if he's got the edge to fight to hold his ground.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Tell it like it is stronzo

I think I just did.

 

[rinaldo]

I think I just did.

Yes you did. Where are you in the pecking order ? I know who the president and Vice President is , after that not so sure.

 

[rinaldo]

Why are we still talking about Ratcliff at this point he's pretty much a bust. The only chance he has of being a regular in the NHL is on the 4th line as a big physical winger who could help out on the PK. He's soft as butter and should have been included in the Ghost trade so we didn't have to give up a 2nd.

Maybe they didn’t want him and wanted the draft pick no ?

 

[deadhead]

Bottom line is it comes down to talent in the end. There is no great conspiracy or sabotage when a player doesn’t make it. How many prospects leave here then flourish elsewhere? So maybe just maybe it’s the drafting that is a bigger issue.

Now that doesn’t let the player development part off the hook by any means. Absolutely they can improve. Winning should not be the main goal of your farm team in any way. $$ drives that However if you don’t own your farm team. Just gets old reading how the flyers failed so and so. Maybe the player just failed.

It's even simpler - most players fail, only a small % play 200+ NHL games and after the 1rd rd, that % drops precipitously.
Players outside the 1st rd often take until they're 22-24 to make it in the NHL, so patience is also required.

Flyer draft picks outside the 1st rd who've played 200+ games (or are locks to do so):
2011: Cousins #68 (376)
2012: Ghost #78 (381)
2013: Hagg #41 (236)
2014: NAK #48 (95), Lindblom #138 (184)
2015: Myers (UDFA)
2016: Hart #48 (101), Allison #52 (14)

 

[captainpaxil]

Why are we still talking about Ratcliff at this point he's pretty much a bust. The only chance he has of being a regular in the NHL is on the 4th line as a big physical winger who could help out on the PK. He's soft as butter and should have been included in the Ghost trade so we didn't have to give up a 2nd.

I'm curious if you have frost in that same category as they're from the same draft class

 

[Asnito]

I'm curious if you have frost in that same category as they're from the same draft class

First off Frost has shown he can play at the NHL level. Ratcliffe is a third liner in the AHL and is buried behind several other prospects. For me if a prospect has no conceivable path to an NHL job he's a bust.