Series Talk: Round 1: Pens vs Rangers

[IcedCapp]

I feel like for a goalie especially, there has to be a difference between physically able to play (he isn't going to reinjure his foot basically) and actually ready to play. Even if it just still really hurts he probably doesn't react like he should in terms of pushing off, etc. Skaters can get away with that a lot more I'd think, where a goalie simply can't function if he's not naturally reacting.

that said, what the hell do I know? I could be talking out of my ass.

I’m not arguing that he should have played. In fact, I don’t know what I’m arguing. I think I’m just being pedantic. if he’s practicing/returning the foot is no longer broken. It’s now a pain / rehab / game shape issue

With broken bones, there is a risk of a rebreak if you do too much before it heals. That's why rehab is progressive - it gets more intense the further it goes along. If you can handle X, then you move on to Y. There is a psychological component, too, especially for a goalie. Can you push off? Can you move side to side? What happens in this position or that position?

I think people are really grasping at straws if they think Sullivan is intentionally holding out Jarry for the ideal scenario. The moment Jarry gets a clean bill of health from the team doctors, he's the starter.

Sorry, I tried to clear this up with another reply. I wasn’t suggesting he should have played or that he’s healthy. Basically just saying (perhaps incorrectly) if he’s at this point, on ice with vigorous practice, the foot is probably no longer broken. I’m not saying there’s no pain, the rehab is done, or that he’s in game shape. Sometimes I just say things because I like the sound of my own voice

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If Crosby and Jarry play tomorrow Trouba will in the first minute elbow Crosby in the head while stomping on Jerry's foot with his skate.

The Matt Cooke hat trick? (Which is just a Mark Messier hat trick without the points)

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yesterday they did have a recourse, that’s why Domingue played.

Result?

Edit: I meant to imply they get more rest.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

if 2 days doesn't make a difference, why not go another 2? Or another 2. Shit, he should have started the series

I see what you did there... But you're wrong

 

[Pancakes]

There's a few different kind of bone breaks with feet. Jarry probably has a non Jones fracture because he hasn't had to have surgery. But yeah if it is broken still and he plays on it and hurts it further it could get worse to the point that he does need surgery.

So that's the risk. He probably has the kind of break that would heal on its own if given time. But if he doesn't give it enough time...

 

[BrookswasHere44]

I mean, Domingue gave them a chance to win in both games.

Surely you can't be serious, right?

Have you seen Tristan Jarry's medical records? Do you know his history, any compounding conditions he might have?

No. Then how can you possibly state with any integrity that a "broken foot is being overstated?"

We don't know where the break occurred. We don't know if it was a single big break or a few tiny fractures. The location within the foot and the severity of the fracture/break can alter the timeline and its impact on his pain level, flexibility, and strength.

We can play around on WebMD all you want, but the reality is that people heal differently. If doctors and a player determine he can't play, then fans need to deal with it. I would rather team doctors hold a player out, even if it's just a few days, to gain a better determination of a player's health status than to put a player back in and have them get reinjured. I don't care if it's a preseason game or Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final. This is sports, not life or death.

Neither is a broken foot and if you think a couple days in this scenario is significant then your level naivety is suffocating.

Disclaimer my argument only applies if he plays tomorrow

 

[ChaosAgent]

It is pretty obvious that the team has been playing this thing probabilistically with Jarry. Risk of reaggravation vs. reward. They genuinely believed they could win with Domingue, and Jarry yesterday only improved their odds marginally. Vs. the odds of a complication.

Now the calculus has changed, in terms of the reward of a win, and the ability to win with Domingue. Therefore the team will start Jarry tomorrow, but there was nothing wrong with the decision to start Domingue yesterday.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Neither do you. If they play tomorrow it’s obvious they could’ve played on Friday.

This is utter crap.

Rehab goes through stages. The reason for that is because the doctors want to see that not only can you do an activity, but how your body responds the next day.

Jarry literally skated for the first time since his injury on Saturday, May 7. That's one week ago. Wednesday was his first time participating in an optional skate, but he didn't get full activity. Friday was his first full practice with the team, and it was during a morning skate. How is that obvious that he could have played? He's been on the ice less than a week at that point.

Saturday was his first practice with the workload that the starter traditionally receives.

They are following clear steps with a progressive timeline.

Neither is a broken foot and if you think a couple days in this scenario is significant then your level naivety is suffocating.

Disclaimer my argument only applies if he plays tomorrow

With progressive steps in a rehab, a couple days absolutely makes a difference. He literally returned to the ice a week ago. Friday was his non-optional practice. There are additional drills and tests they throw at players to determine their status.

Today was likely the last test - the workload of a starter. How he responds overnight will determine his status for tomorrow.

This is what responsible medicine looks like.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is utter crap.

Rehab goes through stages. The reason for that is because the doctors want to see that not only can you do an activity, but how your body responds the next day.

Jarry literally skated for the first time since his injury on Saturday, May 7. That's one week ago. Wednesday was his first time participating in an optional skate, but he didn't get full activity. Friday was his first full practice with the team, and it was during a morning skate. How is that obvious that he could have played? He's been on the ice less than a week at that point.

Saturday was his first practice with the workload that the starter traditionally receives.

They are following clear steps with a progressive timeline.

Because once again, there is no danger in a broken bone getting worse. His injury is something he could get through with pain management.

Domingue is probably a better option given the requirements of his injury, but I guarantee if he plays Sunday, he could’ve played earlier if needed.

 

[Lomez]

There's a few different kind of bone breaks with feet. Jarry probably has a non Jones fracture because he hasn't had to have surgery. But yeah if it is broken still and he plays on it and hurts it further it could get worse to the point that he does need surgery.

So that's the risk. He probably has the kind of break that would heal on its own if given time. But if he doesn't give it enough time...

He'll have all off-season to heal! Take a shot, two Advils and do it!

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Because once again, there is no danger in a broken bone getting worse. His injury is something he could get through with pain management.

You don't know that. You don't know his medical history. Also, overworking a weaker, still recovering body part can lead to overcompensation in other areas of the body and lead to injuries there.

As I just said above, this is what proper medicine and rehabilitation looks like, not 1970s NHL warrior code bullshit.

 

[hockeyplayer999]

They wouldn't need Trouba to take out both guys. They also have Chris "I accidentally on purpose run goalies" Kreider to take care of Jarry.

Or Carter who I accidentally hit shesterkin. Malkin can slewfoot Crosby and Dumolin can come back to take out Jarry

 

[Gurglesons]

You don't know that. You don't know his medical history. Also, overworking a weaker, still recovering body part can lead to overcompensation in other areas of the body and lead to injuries there.

As I just said above, this is what proper medicine and rehabilitation looks like, not 1970s NHL warrior code bullshit.

It’s not 1970s warrior code bullshit. It’s facts. NHL players play with broken bones all the time with pain management.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It’s not 1970s warrior code bullshit. It’s facts. NHL players play with broken bones all the time with pain management.

Show me how many goalies are playing with broken bones in their legs, ankles or feet.

Nick Bonino is a skater and couldn't do it in the 2017 finals.

 

[Gurglesons]

Show me how many goalies are playing with broken bones in their legs, ankles or feet.

Nick Bonino is a skater and couldn't do it in the 2017 finals.

Vasi missed less than a month with a broken foot.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Vasi missed less than a month with a broken foot.

Vasilevskiy was injured Nov. 14, 2018. He returned Dec. 14.

Jarry was injured April 14. Today is May 14. The Penguins play tomorrow.

How is this timeline different?

And I'm still looking for you to show a goalie who has played with a break/fracture in the leg/foot in the playoffs. Frederik Andersen is out right now, too. He hasn't even skated in practice. Why doesn't he need to suck it up?

 

[Gurglesons]

Vasilevskiy was injured Nov. 14, 2018. He returned Dec. 14.

Jarry was injured April 14. Today is May 14. The Penguins play tomorrow.

How is this timeline different?

And I'm still looking for you to show a goalie who has played with a break/fracture in the leg/foot in the playoffs. Frederik Andersen is out right now, too. He hasn't even skated in practice. Why doesn't he need to suck it up?

It’s not. My point has been he could’ve played last game if it was an elimination game for the Pens.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It’s not. My point has been he could’ve played last game if it was an elimination game for the Pens.

And my point is that we have no way of knowing that, every player's injury and recovery follows its own timeline, and that it's not fair to Jarry to assume that he could have just sucked it up and played Friday night.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Carter needs to play better than he dresses

 

[SomeDude]

Man, I never knew there were so many orthopedic specialists on HFboards. Who can I DM about some shoulder issues I've been experiencing?

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Man, I never knew there were so many orthopedic specialists on HFboards. Who can I DM about some shoulder issues I've been experiencing?

You can DM me but I'll just tell you to rub some dirt on it you wimp

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I didn't realize Jeff Carter was a 70's porn star in his free time.

 

[Nakawick]

Even if Jarry plays he could be rusty his first game back.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Man, I never knew there were so many orthopedic specialists on HFboards. Who can I DM about some shoulder issues I've been experiencing?

f*** your shoulder. Just play through the pain

 

[HuskerTornado]

Carter needs to play better than he dresses

He's dressing like the informants on Miami Vice, Izzy and Noogie. Lol