Series Discussion: Round 1 (Caps vs Isles) 2015 Playoffs

[capsfan528]

Caps in 6

 

[Stewie G]

So you're saying the Caps physicality won't matter in the series.....


Bold prediction in a time where physicality means a lot typically.

I'm saying it won't matter as much as some here are claiming it will. Just the same way that Trotz is going to try to maximize its impact, Capuano is going to try to mitigate it. This team is susceptible to long chips and stretch passes and speedy forwards, and that is something the Islanders can bring. See the 3rd goal against the Pens the other night as a good example. Physicality matters, but so does the speed of the Islanders. Grabner made the Pens' defenseman look like he was stuck in quicksand.

 

[Stewie G]

yep, blow the team up

The hyperbole here knows no bounds.

 

[HunterSThompson]

I'm saying it won't matter as much as some here are claiming it will. Just the same way that Trotz is going to try to maximize its impact, Capuano is going to try to mitigate it. This team is susceptible to long chips and stretch passes and speedy forwards, and that is something the Islanders can bring. See the 3rd goal against the Pens the other night as a good example. Physicality matters, but so does the speed of the Islanders. Grabner made the Pens' defenseman look like he was stuck in quicksand.

The long chips will be less effective with the obstruction that will go uncalled during the playoffs.

 

[Stewie G]

The long chips will be less effective with the obstruction that will go uncalled during the playoffs.

Never underestimate the potential impact of terrible officiating.

 

[HunterSThompson]

Never underestimate the potential impact of terrible officiating.

Definite possibility of that.

 

[BobRouse]

The Islanders ARE a much faster team than the Caps. You can't hit what you can't catch. If you think Brouwer, Laich, and Mojo bumping into someone a couple times a game is going to get teams off their game, you are sorely mistaken. Opponents hear footsteps when they know Ovie or Wilson is on the ice. Everyone else, not so much.

My two cents is that the cumulative effect will not be widespread or nearly as impactful as some here proclaim it will be.

I think you are pretty much the first person I have ever heard who feels that physicality isn't important in the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure you're alone in this as the EXACT opposite is the case!


Physicality is never about one or two players. Its about 18 skaters diligently finishing their checks on a consistent basis. Its not about the BIG hits so much as the consistent hits across the board.

I'm saying it won't matter as much as some here are claiming it will. Just the same way that Trotz is going to try to maximize its impact, Capuano is going to try to mitigate it. This team is susceptible to long chips and stretch passes and speedy forwards, and that is something the Islanders can bring. See the 3rd goal against the Pens the other night as a good example. Physicality matters, but so does the speed of the Islanders. Grabner made the Pens' defenseman look like he was stuck in quicksand.

You mean the same Michael Grabner who has 2 goals in 15 playoff games? He's a perimeter player with lots of speed. Unless you are willing to stick your nose into the tough areas you will be less effective come playoff time.

That last goal he scored occurred in the 3rd period, late in the game, against a Pens team playing with 5 D all of whom were gassed. Thats actually a bad example.

In the playoffs teams clamp down. There is less space to roam and speed takes a backseat to hard play. Those fast perimeter players will find less purchase to generate their speed.

 

[Stewie G]

I think you are pretty much the first person I have ever heard who feels that physicality isn't important in the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure you're alone in this as the EXACT opposite is the case!


Physicality is never about one or two players. Its about 18 skaters diligently finishing their checks on a consistent basis. Its not about the BIG hits so much as the consistent hits across the board.

Please find where I said that. You WILL NOT find an example. It's like shade of gray don't exist around here.

Did I do the all caps right?

 

[BobRouse]

Please find where I said that. You WILL NOT find an example. It's like shade of gray don't exist around here.

Did I do the all caps right?

You are clearly trying to devalue physical play in the playoffs. You are saying its not "that important" compared to team speed. That is the premise of your argument. Pretty much every hockey guy, expert, and fan says the EXACT opposite.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I'm saying it won't matter as much as some here are claiming it will. Just the same way that Trotz is going to try to maximize its impact, Capuano is going to try to mitigate it. This team is susceptible to long chips and stretch passes and speedy forwards, and that is something the Islanders can bring. See the 3rd goal against the Pens the other night as a good example. Physicality matters, but so does the speed of the Islanders. Grabner made the Pens' defenseman look like he was stuck in quicksand.

The Penguins are not physical. Their defensemen are brutally slow. But yeah, good comparison. And Capuano is the worst coach in the EC playoffs.

 

[BobRouse]

The Penguins are not physical. Their defensemen are brutally slow. But yeah, good comparison. And Capuano is the worst coach in the EC playoffs.

That Pens defenseman was Ian Cole. Cole averages 16:07 TOI for his career.

That game the Pens were carrying 5 D due to cap issues. He played 25:57 that particular game.

Grabner's goal came with about 3 minutes left in the game. The guy was SPENT.


The Islanders are one of the most electric, captivating offensive teams to watch, and there is plenty of room for growth for a squad ripe with young talent, but they play too loose, and that will ultimately be their undoing. By comparison, this Capitals group is a hard-nosed bunch that plays a more complete game.

"The Capitals are going to take a piece out of them," one Eastern Conference executive said of the Caps' physical brand of hockey.


http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12670957/washington-capitals-vs-new-york-islanders

 

[Stewie G]

I think you are pretty much the first person I have ever heard who feels that physicality isn't important in the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure you're alone in this as the EXACT opposite is the case!


Physicality is never about one or two players. Its about 18 skaters diligently finishing their checks on a consistent basis. Its not about the BIG hits so much as the consistent hits across the board.



You mean the same Michael Grabner who has 2 goals in 15 playoff games? He's a perimeter player with lots of speed. Unless you are willing to stick your nose into the tough areas you will be less effective come playoff time.

That last goal he scored occurred in the 3rd period, late in the game, against a Pens team playing with 5 D all of whom were gassed. Thats actually a bad example.

In the playoffs teams clamp down. There is less space to roam and speed takes a backseat to hard play. Those fast perimeter players will find less purchase to generate their speed.

You are clearly trying to devalue physical play in the playoffs. You are saying its not "that important" compared to team speed. That is the premise of your argument. Pretty much every hockey guy, expert, and fan says the EXACT opposite.

What a waste of my time having to do the multi quote.

Please re-read your bolded sentence. Then please explain why you moved the goal post and continue to put words in my mouth.

I don't care if I'm on an island here. I'm saying that the little bumps give out by the Laichs and Brouwers and Mojos of the world isn't going to shift the balance of the series, any more than the speed of the Grabners and Kulemins and Nielsens will.

Those three Caps have been to the rodeo before. I don't remember their physicality standing out then. I'm not holding my breath that it will happen this year either. One hit by Mojo isn't changing my mind.

 

[Stewie G]

That Pens defenseman was Ian Cole. Cole averages 16:07 TOI for his career.

That game the Pens were carrying 5 D due to cap issues. He played 25:57 that particular game.

Grabner's goal came with about 3 minutes left in the game. The guy was SPENT.


The Islanders are one of the most electric, captivating offensive teams to watch, and there is plenty of room for growth for a squad ripe with young talent, but they play too loose, and that will ultimately be their undoing. By comparison, this Capitals group is a hard-nosed bunch that plays a more complete game.

"The Capitals are going to take a piece out of them," one Eastern Conference executive said of the Caps' physical brand of hockey.


http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12670957/washington-capitals-vs-new-york-islanders

Let's play a fun game. Let's go back and see what Eastern Conference executives thought about the Caps chances against the Habs. I imagine it was filled with "The Caps offensive firepower will be too much. Their PP is too good."

I know it doesn't fit your current narrative, so I'm sure you can find a way to dismiss it.

 

[Stewie G]

Let's see if this is any clearer

Physicality = good
Caps' physicality = limited impact outside of a few players
Value of speed > 0

 

[Stewie G]

NHL.com playoff predictions from 2010.

 

[BobRouse]

Let's see if this is any clearer

Physicality = good during regular season, CRITICAL during playoffs
Caps' physicality = All players finishing their checks to the point where all executives, players and analysts have taken note.
Value of speed = lessened during playoffs where time and space are limited

Made adjustments for you.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

The Isles are like the Boudreau-level Caps, but not as explosive offensively.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

NHL.com playoff predictions from 2010.

That was before Marcus Johansson threw a hit though.

 

[Stewie G]

Made adjustments for you.

Generally I agree. About this Caps team outside of a few particular players I disagree.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

NHL.com playoff predictions from 2010.

What's the point of this?

A Caps team with a different roster lost a fluke series that they dominated. So what?

 

[Stewie G]

What's the point of this?

A Caps team with a different roster lost a fluke series that they dominated. So what?

Expert opinions aren't infallible. Just because unnamed Eastern Conference executive made a prediction, doesn't mean it will come to pass.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Expert opinions aren't infallible. Just because unnamed Eastern Conference executive made a prediction, doesn't mean it will come to pass.

So if I find an expert that predicts the Isles will win the series, does that mean the Caps will win?

Weren't you the one *****ing a few posts ago about things fitting a narrative?

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

How about players on the ice, does their opinion matter, or is it just fitting a narrative?

"They're a big, heavy team," Islanders forward Kyle Okposo said. "They play a hard game; they finish their checks. It's gonna be a physical series. We're going to have to use our legs, use what got us here, and that's our speed. It's going to be a hell of a series."

 

[Stewie G]

So if I find an expert that predicts the Isles will win the series, does that mean the Caps will win?

Weren't you the one *****ing a few posts ago about things fitting a narrative?

What are you talking about?

It was a simple point. Expert opinions are great when they fit your narrative. Instead of relying on them as gospel when they fit your narrative, doesn't it make sense to look back and see if they have any sort of predictive value?

TLDR:

Even unnamed Eastern Conference executives can be wrong.

 

[Stewie G]

How about players on the ice, does their opinion matter, or is it just fitting a narrative?

Seriously? That's pretty much exactly what I've been saying.

Edit: What do you expect him to say? This is hockey speak 101. They're not going to provide any bulletin board material for the other team.