Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Chainshot]

I think the whole team would want to burn the Edmonton tape, generally speaking, he uses his speed to back check.

No. No he does not.

 

[Tatanka]

I think the whole team would want to burn the Edmonton tape, generally speaking, he uses his speed to back check.

No he really doesn’t . He is not very good defensively whether on the backcheck or covering the homeplate.

 

[Zman5778]

he uses his speed to back check.

He most certainly does not. Maybe possibly he will every once in a while......but he's very much becoming Skinner-like in his backchecking.

 

[Matt Ress]

You made your point in the first paragraph and then more or less repeat it 7 times in the succeeding paragraphs...

You are conflating not trading Olofsson with a implicit (or maybe explicit by some) endorsement that he helps the team win and is needed. If you go there, you could make the argument BUF should/could have also traded Jost, Bryson, Comrie, Robinson, others. They are no more nor less needed than Olofsson, if you're going to invoke the "needed" phrase.

From what I read, no one - or at best a scant few - is saying Olofsson is good or helps the team win. They are saying when BUF was beset with a scoring forward offseason injury of unknown duration (Quinn), Olofsson by default from that injury now held more value than a 5th-7th pick. Others (@Der Jaeger, @Chainshot, you, etc.) would have be settled for the pick / risking losing the trade because of the rationale you cite.

Also, invoking Eric Robinson was a red herring. He had been waived and cleared earlier in the season for assignment to Cleveland / Lake Erie. Buffalo offering a conditional pick was the typical thing to do to enable giving him an NHL roster slot. Feel free to berate BUF for not making the waiver claim earlier when they were able, but I also don't see a connection to Olofsson.

I will grant that it is a conspicuous indictment that two years running, the Sabres have made waiver claims (Jost, Robinson) for players who are arguably NHL/AHL tweeners, yet those waiver claims still can't be "forced" down to the minors or out of the Sabres org by the improved play of other emerging talents from within the BUF-ROC-etc. organization.


Perhaps ironic?

I agree. In that regard he is rare (for current BUF roster). And why I'm less adamant than others he needs to be bought out.

Agreed. Interesting that a couple recent games (Seattle, etc.) where the lines were made more similar in construction (Girgensons doing dirty work for #72, #89, Skinner moved down; Greenway with Benson, etc.) the Sabres did a little better, or at least were more consistent through the lines, as opposed to one line looking OK, two looking over-matched and the remaining line like there was all the familiarity between them of a fill-in joining for a night of beer league.

And NONE of the above implies BUF needed Olofsson to win.

Perhaps a decent "small but skilled" template to follow.
At least oompa loompas work hard, yet together, for their entire shift, and know where their teammates are/will be..

yeah... maybe... hopefully...
Would like to see another season closer to last one to be sure. I am skeptical he can adapt further to the modifications teams have made to defend him on the ice.

Mittelstadt to me was their best all-situations, all-zones center, or at least had that potential more-so than Thompson (or Cozens).

Don't know what the numbers show, but it also seems they don't work hard enough consistently enough to draw penalties,

Watching their power play often is like watching two dissimilar animal species trying to mate.

I think that's it. If they had put in a consistent effort, another 8-10 points is easily obtainable.

 

[Matt Ress]

Is the defensive strategy working? Or do we just have good goaltending?

It seems clear to me that they're doing a much better job as a 5 man defensive unit (couldn't get much worse) which gives the goalie less to think about and ultimately more effective. So both?

 

[sabremike]

It's mostly goal tending. But we have improved defensively as well.

2022-23
xGA/60: 2.82 (26th)
GA/60: 3.06 (28th)
-0.24 ratio between xGA and GA implies goaltending below average
xGF/60: 2.75
GF/60: 2.96

2023-24
xGA/60: 2.61(19th) .21 improvement YoY
GA/60: 2.41 (11th) 0.65 improvement YoY
+0.20 ratio between xGA and GA implies goaltending above average
xGF/60: 2.49 -0.26 YoY
GF/60: 2.63 -0.33 YoY

It's almost entirely goaltending. Since the new year UPL has been playing at Vezina winning level.

 

[Steddy33]

I think the whole team would want to burn the Edmonton tape, generally speaking, he uses his speed to back check.

He actually rarely ever back checks

 

[slip]

I think the whole team would want to burn the Edmonton tape, generally speaking, he uses his speed to back check.

He uses his speed to back check like Power uses his size to clear the crease.

 

[Matt Ress]

Since the end of December 2022 (picking the 25th for just running the stats), they have been one of the worst PP teams in the NHL at 17.1% or 27th in the entire league. It's been a problem for over a year. Most teams are defending the point-to-flanker one-timer better per some of the guys who talk about more in-depth stats (Woodley using his access to CSA's stuff specifically). The unit does not feature much of a net-front guy without it being someone people scream about being out there doing that - Okposo on the second unit, Greenway on either the 2nd unit or now on the first unit - for just screen purposes. They also don't try to overload to the side away from the shot option as other teams are doing, whereby they would have everyone but Thompson on one side, rotating the puck and themselves around until such time as the seam opens to allow the one-timer OR they try something from their side with an opportunity to outman the other team at the net.

There are so many things they could try and they have done almost none of them. I would've walked Ellis out months ago but here we are.

Definitely a net front guy but also some timing and practice for that net guy to step out and take a 12 foot one timer from the bumper. Rhino has always been good around the net and now stepping away from coverage to get that quick shot off from the slot. It's something I see just about every other team doing regularly but almost never see the Sabres even attempt.

 

[Dubi Doo]

He most certainly does not. Maybe possibly he will every once in a while......but he's very much becoming Skinner-like in his backchecking.

He reminds me of a less exciting Afinogenov. Their speed is impressive, though I think Afinogenov's speed was superior, or maybe he just had slicker hands at high speed. I like Peterka's shot more from what I remember of Max.

Max is the superior player, though Peterka is far from a finished product.

 

[Tatanka]

No he really doesn’t . He is not very good defensively whether on the backcheck or covering the homeplate.

Nevermind, thought the discussion was about Thompson. Peterka back checks he just doesn't physically finish like most here want.

 

[Chainshot]

Definitely a net front guy but also some timing and practice for that net guy to step out and take a 12 foot one timer from the bumper. Rhino has always been good around the net and now stepping away from coverage to get that quick shot off from the slot. It's something I see just about every other team doing regularly but almost never see the Sabres even attempt.

Sam had that play in Buffalo too and no one else seems to other than Benson. And then there are options to simply overload the slot-line with a low 2-on-1 option that frees up a shooter more back post. For those old enough, think how Quebec ran their PP in the 1980's or how the Avs do some of their work now.

 

[Chainshot]

Nevermind, thought the discussion was about Thompson. Peterka back checks he just doesn't physically finish like most here want.

He isn't an active backchecker. No one is asking for him to be physical. Put in the effort to take away someone's hands instead of quitting and gliding, that's all.

 

[Beerz]

I think Peterka could be elite defensively if he wanted to be. He is very good stepping up on an opposing rusher and getting the puck and going the other way. Problem is.. the will is not there...yet.

 

[Chainshot]

I wonder if they could sell picks to Vegas for either or both of Whitecloud and Roy?

 

[HOOats]

Thompson is the superior offense player now, but when he has no space, he is completely ineffective. He is at his best on broken plays when he is moving and the D is caught flat footed - in that situation, he can dangle through an entire D and make highlight plays like few can in this league. But when the D has position on him and takes away his space, they completely shut him down, time and time again.

Thompson is a very unorthodox center, and requires a winger to create the space for him and ideally a winger to cover his defensive deficiencies. In the right situation, he can be a very effective top 6 center, but he is not a guy you can plug into any line to get other players going. Cozens hopefully will become that. He is still very young for an NHL center, so don't write him off yet.

I've been thinking about Benson as a long-term wing for Tage lately. He can do a lot of the dirty work that centers traditionally handle and will be elite at creating advantageous (no pun) mini situations that could give Tage some much needed time and space.

He reminds me of a less exciting Afinogenov. Their speed is impressive, though I think Afinogenov's speed was superior, or maybe he just had slicker hands at high speed. I like Peterka's shot more from what I remember of Max.

Max is the superior player, though Peterka is far from a finished product.

JJ is on pace to match Max's peak in the next 1-2 years. He's about to beat Max's best goal season as a 22yo (granted Max's 06-07 G/GP was crazy, 23 in 56 but on the best team in the league). I wonder if Max's card ever looked as strong as the one posted in this thread for JJ. Do historical cards exist?

 

[Matt Ress]

I think Peterka could be elite defensively if he wanted to be. He is very good stepping up on an opposing rusher and getting the puck and going the other way. Problem is.. the will is not there...yet.

85% of defense is will

 

[Irie]

I've been thinking about Benson as a long-term wing for Tage lately. He can do a lot of the dirty work that centers traditionally handle and will be elite at creating advantageous (no pun) mini situations that could give Tage some much needed time and space.

I can definity see those two having chemistry in the future. Benson is a kid that despite his size and not being the fastest skater, sees the ice really well and creates space with the puck. He is really good at reading the D and carrying the puck to open areas and drawing defenders to him while he patiently waits for his teammates to go to open areas and make themselves available for seam passes. It could create the ideal situation for Thompson, who could take advantage of defenders moving in the wrong direction if he could just read the ice and hit those areas with speed when Benson has the puck - that is still a big if though, as Thompson hasn't shown the knack for that sort of spacial recognition that often.

Also, I unfortunately think Benson is still too young and green to be that line-driver regularly on the top line against the opposition's best defensive units. I think he may still need a couple of years of physically maturing to be that cog in the wheel, but in the near future, if things go well, I could see them being a fantastic duo like you are envisioning.

 

[Chainshot]

I've been thinking about Benson as a long-term wing for Tage lately. He can do a lot of the dirty work that centers traditionally handle and will be elite at creating advantageous (no pun) mini situations that could give Tage some much needed time and space.

JJ is on pace to match Max's peak in the next 1-2 years. He's about to beat Max's best goal season as a 22yo (granted Max's 06-07 G/GP was crazy, 23 in 56 but on the best team in the league). I wonder if Max's card ever looked as strong as the one posted in this thread for JJ. Do historical cards exist?

Benson has me thinking of another slow footed player who makes his line play fast with how he creates turnovers and turns plays with his checking, only he is micro-sized compared to Mark Stone. Granted, Benson isn’t as slow and has runway to improve his burst and stride.

 

[Zman5778]

I wonder if they could sell picks to Vegas for either or both of Whitecloud and Roy?

Roy seems like an ideal 3rd line center, even if his FO% blows.

Whitecloud seems a bit redundant though, given that we still have Clifton and Jokiharju. Is he that much of an upgrade over either?

 

[Chainshot]

Roy seems like an ideal 3rd line center, even if his FO% blows.

Whitecloud seems a bit redundant though, given that we still have Clifton and Jokiharju. Is he that much of an upgrade over either?

Operating that Jokiharju is not back, having another RD shot option who is signed to an affordable deal m, and getting someone in prime age into the defense is my thought.

As for Roy, a good 3C with Cup experience one a good contract, features size and responsibility… perfect is the enemy of done. Worrying about faceoffs on a team that is not diligent about details on faceoffs seems like a misplaced concern.

 

[Matt Ress]

Let's just call it the off-season. I think Granato gets a shot but is a half season enough? Traditionally when fans chant for a coaches head, well Donnie has lasted longer than others. What if the team comes out flat again? December with no progress?

 

[sabremike]

Let's just call it the off-season. I think Granato gets a shot but is a half season enough? Traditionally when fans chant for a coaches head, well Donnie has lasted longer than others. What if the team comes out flat again? December with no progress?

They are going to do just that and throw another season straight into the garbage. Everyone knows that's exactly what is going to happen except the fools who run this dumpster fire with room temperature IQs.

 

[Tatanka]

Operating that Jokiharju is not back, having another RD shot option who is signed to an affordable deal m, and getting someone in prime age into the defense is my thought.

As for Roy, a good 3C with Cup experience one a good contract, features size and responsibility… perfect is the enemy of done. Worrying about faceoffs on a team that is not diligent about details on faceoffs seems like a misplaced concern.

Why would VGK want to move him? It would cost more than picks and specs imho.

 

[Mattilaus]

Why would VGK want to move him? It would cost more than picks and specs imho.

How does their cap look after picking up Hertl? Someone who knows cap stuff weigh in? Those two make almost 6 mil combined. They also might want to re-sign hanifin.